How come the participants from the Top 8 who did not win are barred from competing the following year?


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I was wondering how come the top 8 who did not win are not allowed to ever participate again? These are people who have a passion for pathfinder and some great ideas, but I have heard little from them since they are no longer allowed to submit ideas. I know that On the PFS side of things we have many who have submitted stuff for scenarios and John receives proposals in droves, but this rule I believe limits the talent every year in a very negative way. It's great if you got in the top 4, but heck I'm sure it's a downer if you are in the top 6 and knowing two of you never get a shot at this again.........ever.

I would like to know why they cannot re-enter the following year. This rule makes no sense to me. I have never even made it into the top 32, but it sucks to think if I made it into the top 8 or 6 that's it. I'm out forever more.

-James

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RPGSS is to find new talent. By the time they make it to Top 8 they have proven themselves as designers.

I think if you look at the Russ's, Jesses and Benjamins of the first few seasons you will see a longer list of 'contributor' tags than on many of the Top 4. They have found work even if it is not name-on-the-front-cover work.

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Corax "the honest thief" wrote:

I was wondering how come the top 8 who did not win are not allowed to ever participate again? These are people who have a passion for pathfinder and some great ideas, but I have heard little from them since they are no longer allowed to submit ideas. I know that On the PFS side of things we have many who have submitted stuff for scenarios and John receives proposals in droves, but this rule I believe limits the talent every year in a very negative way. It's great if you got in the top 4, but heck I'm sure it's a downer if you are in the top 6 and knowing two of you never get a shot at this again.........ever.

I would like to know why they cannot re-enter the following year. This rule makes no sense to me. I have never even made it into the top 32, but it sucks to think if I made it into the top 8 or 6 that's it. I'm out forever more.

-James

The original point of the contest was to take the place of the unsolicited articles submitted in the days when Paizo published Dragon and Dungeon magazines. The quality of these submissions was greatly varied, but many a rising star of the RPG design world could be discovered that way. When Paizo lost the rights to publish the two magazines, they needed a new way to keep that flow of new blood pumping for their own freelance needs.

Being fans of talent contests, they came up with their own. The whole point of the contest is to be discovered. Once you have some recognition, the original purpose is over. The contest exists to open up the channels for new people; having the same people get near the top every year limits it.

I discussed this a bit last time around in the New Viewers Guide. With a complete folio that a Third Party Publisher can access, they really have been "discovered." So while sad, they have proven they have the chops for freelancing and can proceed with a leg up on everyone else.

In order for this to be a contest with new faces near the top every year, the line has to be drawn somewhere. Paizo has drawn it right before the adventure proposal, which makes sense as it keeps those ideas for the adventures belonging to the four who don't advance and not Paizo. It is the best way to fulfill the original purpose of this contest.

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As one of the people you're describing, I thought I would offer my perspective on this issue. Admittedly, there was a part of me that was bummed when I fell into the gap between those who could enter again and those who would get the opportunity to publish something with Paizo. But in my case, anyway, it was in some ways a kind of relief. I have a very satisfying full-time job already which keeps me very busy, and the last round of the contest in particular would have come at a time when I would have been swamped with other stuff and would have had a very hard time putting my best foot forward. And honestly, my publishing efforts ought to be directed more towards my day job than game designing. But on the other hand, my success in RPGSS (of a degree, anyway) has encouraged me to consider some other game design possibilities that I can do on my own schedule, and I might not have taken those possibilities as seriously without the contest. So even though there is a twinge of envy that others get to ride the rollercoaster again and I don't, I also feel incredibly lucky to have had the experience I had, and there's definitely something to be said as well for being able to watch from the sidelines without fretting about my submission. A lot of the fun of Superstar is watching old and new favorites show their chops, and I still get that pleasure in spades!

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Also, we want to keep the field open. If everyone who has hit Top 8 but not otherwise been published enough to prevent entering was still eligible, I suspect a huge percentage of our top 32 each year would be veteran top-8-ers. And while that's great as an opportunity for those to refine their talent, it both makes it harder for new folks to make that first cut, and doesn't encourage people in the top 8 to work to get out there and get published.
The best way to improve writing skills to to actually write projects, and with the number of 3pp out there, anyone in the top 8 should be bale to start getting work (that may not pay well, but pays better than being top 8 in this contest), which is better for their career in the long term.
All that said, this is a legacy rule I inherited, and I have been eying it suspiciously. I want to make sure there's a reason for everything we do with the contest.

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Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:

Also, we want to keep the field open. If everyone who has hit Top 8 but not otherwise been published enough to prevent entering was still eligible, I suspect a huge percentage of our top 32 each year would be veteran top-8-ers. And while that's great as an opportunity for those to refine their talent, it both makes it harder for new folks to make that first cut, and doesn't encourage people in the top 8 to work to get out there and get published.

The best way to improve writing skills to to actually write projects, and with the number of 3pp out there, anyone in the top 8 should be bale to start getting work (that may not pay well, but pays better than being top 8 in this contest), which is better for their career in the long term.
All that said, this is a legacy rule I inherited, and I have been eying it suspiciously. I want to make sure there's a reason for everything we do with the contest.

That being the case, wouldn't it perhaps be a good idea to open up a unique competition for more experienced freelancers and writers? It's great that you have such a fun and effective method to discover talent being made available on a regular basis, but it does strike me as a little sad that all this great talent i'm seeing around is being stricken from a competitive scene entirely because they are so talented.

It makes total sense to keep superstars a level playing field for doe eyed beginners such as myself, hoping to make a name for themselves one day without being constantly snuffed by those that already have proven themselves... but how bout a superstaresque competition hosted on a small scale that caters specifically to successful freelancers, rpg writers, and designs? Something to show of their skills publicly, show a little competitive spirit, and maybe even win a nice prize or two on the side? I think watching the real pros at work in a friendly competitive setting could be proper fun, especially for us newbies.


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Flanwaw wrote:


but how bout a superstaresque competition hosted on a small scale that caters specifically to successful freelancers, rpg writers, and designs? Something to show of their skills publicly, show a little competitive spirit, and maybe even win a nice prize or two on the side?

Like a...RPG Superstar, Celebrity edition?

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JJ Jordan wrote:
Flanwaw wrote:


but how bout a superstaresque competition hosted on a small scale that caters specifically to successful freelancers, rpg writers, and designs? Something to show of their skills publicly, show a little competitive spirit, and maybe even win a nice prize or two on the side?
Like a...RPG Superstar, Celebrity edition?

Yes... yes like that. Glad to see there will always be someone around to curtail my wordiness.

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I guess I'm in an unusual place for this, and I've thought about it a lot.

I have sort of been riding that wave of "good enough to get into the top 32 each year, but not quite able to reach the top 8 and be disqualified". It's fun to look forward to the competition each year, and I might be a little addicted to it. However, I am starting to feel somewhat guilty for taking up space when someone new could be up there and experiencing it for the first time.

I think if top eight contestants were allowed back in each year, they would consistently make it back into the competition. It would be really discouraging to the new entrants, and things would get pretty stale with seeing the same folks each and every year.

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9 seasons, 4 Top 8s. Sounds just about right for a spin off contest :)

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Chris Shaeffer wrote:
I have sort of been riding that wave of "good enough to get into the top 32 each year, but not quite able to reach the top 8 and be disqualified". It's fun to look forward to the competition each year, and I might be a little addicted to it. However, I am starting to feel somewhat guilty for taking up space when someone new could be up there and experiencing it for the first time.

Sounds to me Chris like you are right on the cusp. If you feel that your skills are improving, keep going. In fact, if I were you, I'd be looking at getting work with 3rd party publishers, or getting your foot in the door with Paizo in their Player Companion line or a PFS scenario. Making Top 32, 3 years out of 8 is an impressive step no matter how you slice it, but it is only a stepping stone to where you want to take it. I can understand that the prize at the end of Superstar (a module with your name on it) could be a big draw for you too.

While I suspect Paizo wouldn't go for a 'celebrity' Superstar, a compilation product of magic items (or some other short components, like spells) written by Top 8 competitors could be something Paizo or other companies might do. The game can never have enough innovative magic items.

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Chris Shaeffer wrote:

I guess I'm in an unusual place for this, and I've thought about it a lot.

I have sort of been riding that wave of "good enough to get into the top 32 each year, but not quite able to reach the top 8 and be disqualified". It's fun to look forward to the competition each year, and I might be a little addicted to it.

THIS!

RPGSS is something I look forward to each year, weirdly enough I am quite happy about not advancing beyond the top 16.

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Curaigh wrote:
9 seasons, 4 Top 8s. Sounds just about right for a spin off contest :)

As being one of the first Season's Top 8, I personally have been "bummed" about not being able to participate again.

I recognize that I had some harsh criticisms and such at the time, but I'd agree with the above suggestion...

Perhaps an RPG Superstar All Star's contest...invite back the #5-8 from the past Seasons for a new round of contest...change the prize or change the challenges...but that could be entertaining as well.

I for one have never had the opportunity for publication beyond the first contest due to my real world life and concerns, but my RPG love has never died and my participation with Pathfinder has also continued, being a former Venture Officer and regular home and Society GM.

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If you want to see other contests, you ought to pay closer attention to the forums, particularly this subforum. There are many design contests which are announced here that get depressingly low turnout.

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Agreed. I think others have noted there are plenty of opportunities for freelancing out there; the hardest part is FINDING them (IMO). It was other contests on the forum 137ben links to -- Adventureaweek.com's Pathmaster adventure contest (which sadly appears to have been one and done) and then Raging Swan's Broken Freelancers contests, in particular -- that really got my freelance writing career going after it got started in Superstar.

It's part of why when Mikko and I created Swords for Hire, one of our thoughts was to try to pass on those opportunities. We're in fact running a contest right now that could get you published in our upcoming Villain Codex II.

There are posts every year about how Superstar should just be the launching pad. You can get yourself noticed here. It's up to you what you do with it. Some folks who've not advanced beyond Top 32 (or even not gotten into the Top 32) have made names for themselves, while there are folks who were Top 4 who've never done anything else that I've seen.

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Joseph Yerger wrote:
Curaigh wrote:
9 seasons, 4 Top 8s. Sounds just about right for a spin off contest :)

Perhaps an RPG Superstar All Star's contest...invite back the #5-8 from the past Seasons for a new round of contest...change the prize or change the challenges...but that could be entertaining as well.

I was thinking along the lines of the charity golf tournaments. Participants wouldn't win anything. It would primarily be entertainment.

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20 x 20 x 20 pit, no lights, a slide over cover, one ladder in Owen's hands. Beside him a contract to propose the AP storyline for the AP that includes AP 150, and to write #150 itself!

Put all the top 4 from each year in the pit, throw in two baseball bats... put the lid on the pit and say...

"I'll be back to let the soul survivor out in 30 minutes, get to it folds!"...

;)

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What? No tyrannical gnomes saying "You're fireballed!"

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Jacob W. Michaels wrote:
It's part of why when Mikko and I created Swords for Hire, one of our thoughts was to try to pass on those opportunities. We're in fact running a contest right now that could get you published in our upcoming Villain Codex II.

Should anyone here be interested in designing villains, you can find the announcement about Villain Codex II here.

At least six people get their villains published, and it doesn't matter if you have little or no freelance experience if your ideas are solid.

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I feel that if DQ was going to DQ herself, this was the way to do it! :)

It feels a little disappointing and yet I feel good for getting as far as I did and also for being free of addiction to this contest (because of course I'm NOT still checking this forum for conversation about it compulsively, I'm NOT, I'm NOT, I SWEAR). :)

Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:


All that said, this is a legacy rule I inherited, and I have been eying it suspiciously. I want to make sure there's a reason for everything we do with the contest.

Though I'm sure you are aware of this... I recall in 2014 (I think) they eliminated a round, and one big reason for doing so was specifically to eliminate the top 8 dead zone. That year they went straight from top 16 to top 4. (It also shortens the contest, which now having participated in it, I can appreciate the value of that as well--if you get into the contest, you basically lose up to three months of your life.) I think the round itself was restored for good reason in terms of getting more chances to see participants' work, but FWIW they had tried to seek ways to eliminate it. So you are not the only person to "eye it suspiciously." OTOH, even though they tried to eliminate the top 8 status specifically, the rule preventing prior top 8 participants remained.

One issue is if you lifted the ban at this point, would long-time-ago top 8 ers feel bitter for being banned for so long or would they just be happy for another possible opportunity?

137ben wrote:

If you want to see other contests, you ought to pay closer attention to the forums, particularly this subforum. There are many design contests which are announced here that get depressingly low turnout.

I think the problem there is visibility. While we must all put the onus on ourselves to check frequently, the forum updates a lot and thus things get moved out of plain sight very quickly. I was at family stuff and then a conference this past week and didn't see the Villain Codex announcement, and wouldn't have were it not for Mikko's post below (though I think it did get bumped recently due to someone dotting the thread). Again, while potential participants should make effort to check these things as much as they can, 3PPs also need to work hard to promote their own visibility, and not just rest on "well, we posted our announcement, so we're done." They need to be bumping posts and putting things on Twitter and Facebook, etc. and doing it THROUGHOUT the submission period. I know 3PPs are often very, very small (a handful of busy people) but getting participation requires effort on both potential contributors and those seeking contribution. I've tried to sign up for mailing lists for some 3PPs to help myself keep up with news only to find I never receive any updates from them anyway. Paizo of course has the advantage of being comparatively a much larger company with a marketing staff (even if in the grand scheme of things they are still a small company).

One nice thing about Superstar as well is how specific it is in all entries. The open call is most broad based but you still have some firm limitations with item type and word count, etc. The later entries' specificity, while absolutely challenging in their own way, are helpful in generating ideas---limitation often helps jog creativity, as contradictory as that might seem. I know I struggle with open calls or contests that are largely "give us a pitch" with absolutely no boundaries as to what someone is looking for---especially, as often the publisher is really looking for something with a particular feel or for a particular use but is failing to communicate that, and people get rejected for ideas they had no idea weren't appropriate. Likewise if the categories are so broad it's overwhelming to figure out how to narrow it down while brainstorming ideas. I want to have a strong sense of what someone is looking for.

I think it would also be helpful if 3PPs provide a brief sample of something typical they publish--we are all familiar with Paizo's style but may be less so with smaller companies, and having that sense also makes figuring out what someone may be looking for more helpful.

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Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:


All that said, this is a legacy rule I inherited, and I have been eying it suspiciously. I want to make sure there's a reason for everything we do with the contest.

I'm wondering if a 3 or 5 year rule instead of a forever rule might be a good middle ground in the future.

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Personally, I'm not upset about being in the Top 8 and not competing- I've been freelancing consistently since my Top 8 finish in 2011 including currently serving as the line developer for the Shadows over Vathak campaign setting published by Fat Goblin Games and design work for Paizo in the last three hardcovers starting with Occult Adventures. I wouldn't compete even if I could because I have too many paying projects to keep me busy.

I don't say that to brag but to illustrate a point (forgive me as I climb up on my soapbox here)- making the Top 8 is exactly what started my freelance career. Not just opening doors but I didn't even know that I wanted to freelance until I entered the contest and had a lot of fun.

I've written before my advice for those trying to break in. Even as a Top 8, I had to be very proactive in approaching companies including flying out to PaizoCon (which is crazy for an introverted hermit like me). I'll do a brief recap here-

1. Find a company whose products you enjoy/use. Write reviews and engage the publisher on forums (not just here but Facebook, Twitter, etc.). Check their website for to see if they accept freelance submissions (some may even hold contests like Raging Swan does occassionally).

2. Attend conventions frequented by the publishers- for Pathfinder, I recommend PaizoCon and then GenCon. Putting a face to a name is a big help. That's how I got work with Paizo. Even this year at GenCon, I stopped by and talked to Kyoudai Games (Thunderscape), Sasquatch Studios (Primeval Thule), and TPK Games. Make sure you have a business card and follow up afterwards.

3. Have some written material ready- blogs, previous work, any sort of writing/rules crunch sample. People will ask for one.

If you're serious about freelancing and you have the time to do it, with a little bit of determination, you can get published, regardless of whether your Top 8 or Top 100. (climbs down for soap box).

Too long, didn't read?- Don't cry too much for John Bennett, he's doing ok and if you have any questions about breaking into freelancing or the freelance life, just PM him, he'd be happy to give you pointers.

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While reaching the Top 8 entails a somewhat awkward position (somewhere between having accomplished something and not being quiet good enough yet), I think the rule makes sense for the reasons provided by Owen and others.

Like Scott and DeathQuaker, I can say for certain that the positive feelings far outweigh any regrets. This contest really has opened up my eyes, showing me I could do things I wasn't aware of. Not a year ago, I wouldn't have thought of myself as a game designer and if someone had told me that I would make Top 8 as a first-time-entrant in this contest, I wouldn't have believed them. So, even if I'm somewhat unsure about how to proceed at the moment, I'm really not upset about being barred from entering again.


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Oh, what I wouldn't give to be ineligible to enter RPGSS. I sometimes hang awake at night dreaming of being ineligible to enter RPGSS.

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I do have to admit, seeing that "Click here to submit" button on the RPGSS page every time does spur a curious set of emotions. This little voice in the back of my head keeps whispering, "Click it! You know you want to...."
(not that I would, though. :-p)

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Scott LaBarge wrote:

I do have to admit, seeing that "Click here to submit" button on the RPGSS page every time does spur a curious set of emotions. This little voice in the back of my head keeps whispering, "Click it! You know you want to...."

(not that I would, though. :-p)

You'll also get an e-mail reminding you to submit your item before the deadline or at least I have in the past :).

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/me Raises a glass

"Welcome to The Ineligibles!"

and if you're not a member, submit and put together a pit crew. ;)

-Ben.

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I've been tempted to type "just kidding!" into the submission form, but that would probably just make more work for the pre-vote entry weeders.


Scott LaBarge wrote:

I do have to admit, seeing that "Click here to submit" button on the RPGSS page every time does spur a curious set of emotions. This little voice in the back of my head keeps whispering, "Click it! You know you want to...."

(not that I would, though. :-p)

Go on, I triple dog with a cherry on top dare you!

Grin.

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For many of the reasons listed above, I also support the "no participation for top 8" legacy rule. I think the spirit of the contest is to drum up new talent, and that becomes difficult when the same few people keep popping up because of their obvious ability. It's like how International Champion Barbershop Quartets are automatically retired from competition: people like new blood.

If you've got the chops to make top 8, you've pretty much established yourself as a force to be reckoned with in game design. The way I see it, people in that echelon have nothing left to "prove" in competition; it's time for us/them to start contributing to the design industry in a more permanent capacity.

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I'd be interested in a "Where are they now" list of their design credits (both Paizo and 3PP).

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Christopher Wasko wrote:

For many of the reasons listed above, I also support the "no participation for top 8" legacy rule. I think the spirit of the contest is to drum up new talent, and that becomes difficult when the same few people keep popping up because of their obvious ability. It's like how International Champion Barbershop Quartets are automatically retired from competition: people like new blood.

I have never before in my life been compared to a Barbershop Quartet in any capacity -- but I like it! =7

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Due to the contest's anonymity, nothing technically stops someone who reaches the Top 8 from entering again. Adam Donald (2012 Top 8) re-entered last year and made the Top 32 before being noticed and DQ'd.

It's not very useful, and IMO sort of rude to do, but eh?

Petty Alchemy wrote:
I'd be interested in a "Where are they now" list of their design credits (both Paizo and 3PP).

PathfinderWiki autogenerates categories for Paizo works credited to authors (for instance, here's Neil Spicer's) and has pages for each RPGSS competition listing the people who advance. I do what I can to keep the RPGSS pages up to date. (Volunteers always welcomed!)

I don't think anyone's running much of a database for Pathfinder 3PP product credits, but you could always cross-reference the lists of past contestants with sites like RPGGeek or DTRPG.

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Petty Alchemy wrote:
I'd be interested in a "Where are they now" list of their design credits (both Paizo and 3PP).

A lot of designers, myself included, keep a list of products we designed on our Paizo profiles here for prospective employers. Plus links to websites and such. I typically don't include a product until its available for sale (as I like to include a hyperlink to it for anyone who wants to buy it).

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John Bennett wrote:
Petty Alchemy wrote:
I'd be interested in a "Where are they now" list of their design credits (both Paizo and 3PP).

A lot of designers, myself included, keep a list of products we designed on our Paizo profiles here for prospective employers. Plus links to websites and such. I typically don't include a product until its available for sale (as I like to include a hyperlink to it for anyone who wants to buy it).

Yup, mine gets updated every 2-3 months or so with samples, product successes and all sorts of free goodness, so feel free to have a look and help yourself to anything there you think you can use.

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I update mine when new material is released.

-Ben.

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A compilation would be easier to browse, like the "Sortable List of Every Top 32 Item Ever!" than tracking people down and copying their profile bio. Though perhaps that's what it would initially take.

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John Bennett wrote:
Petty Alchemy wrote:
I'd be interested in a "Where are they now" list of their design credits (both Paizo and 3PP).

A lot of designers, myself included, keep a list of products we designed on our Paizo profiles here for prospective employers. Plus links to websites and such. I typically don't include a product until its available for sale (as I like to include a hyperlink to it for anyone who wants to buy it).

Me too! (my list is much shorter...I'll get there someday though!)

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John Bennett wrote:
I typically don't include a product until its available for sale (as I like to include a hyperlink to it for anyone who wants to buy it).

Same here, though for different reasons. To me it's a matter of professionalism to not talk about my projects publicly before the products are released. Paizo (and other publishers) have the right to cut or change anything you've written, so if you are careless, you might end up looking mighty silly.

Almost happened to me once; I wrote a bunch of monsters for an AP. Most probably for space reasons, some of the monsters didn't appear in the same volumes I thought they would. Had I said something like "I designed monsters for this one" too early, I would have looked unprofessional. It's tempting to say too much especially when you're new and excited about your first project.

For the same reason, I nowadays avoid putting any unpublished products on my list of credits because I don't want anyone to think "Wait, I thought you wrote something for that product. What happened?" if for any reason something gets changed or cut. Also, knowing that I designed something is a spoiler in and of itself. ;-) Freelancers aren't allowed to give spoilers like that.

I've learned that it's better to be quiet until you've actually seen the product, or at least until the product page has been updated. Even then it's better to act professional and avoid bragging or otherwise going "me me me, look at me, I designed this!"

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Add me to the list of those who wait until something is published before I add it to my profile.

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Garrett Guillotte wrote:


I don't think anyone's running much of a database for Pathfinder 3PP product credits, but you could always cross-reference the lists of past contestants with sites like RPGGeek or DTRPG.

A "RPGDB" site isn't a bad idea. I should add it to my list of things I'll never get around to making. ;-)

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Mikko Kallio wrote:
John Bennett wrote:

For the same reason, I nowadays avoid putting any unpublished products on my list of credits because I don't want anyone to think "Wait, I thought you wrote something for that product. What happened?" if for any reason something gets changed or cut. Also, knowing that I designed something is a spoiler in and of itself. ;-) Freelancers aren't allowed to give spoilers like that.

I've learned that it's better to be quiet until you've actually seen the product, or at least until the product page has been updated. Even then it's better to act professional and avoid bragging or otherwise going "me me me, look at me, I designed this!"

Mikko brings up a good point- as a freelancer, you're generally aware of a product before its announced by the publisher, so don't make the mistake of letting the cat of the bag before the publisher announces it.

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Hey that's good advice. I admit I hadn't thought of it, and just made a small change to follow that advice.

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John Bennett wrote:
Mikko brings up a good point- as a freelancer, you're generally aware of a product before its announced by the publisher, so don't make the mistake of letting the cat of the bag before the publisher announces it.

This is a GREAT point. We typically have very careful plans for when and how we announce particular products, and we'd be pretty frustrated if a freelancer scooped that announcement.

Sczarni RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 , Champion Voter Season 6, Champion Voter Season 7, Champion Voter Season 8, Champion Voter Season 9

For my profile, I use a hyperlink that directs to a search for products with my name attached.

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Petty Alchemy wrote:
A compilation would be easier to browse, like the "Sortable List of Every Top 32 Item Ever!" than tracking people down and copying their profile bio. Though perhaps that's what it would initially take.

3PP are not listed here (looking at Jason Nelson who does Legendary Games), but this does have all the Top 32 and their Pathfinder work. If a particular author's pages isn't up to date, you can edit it. That is what Pathfinder Wiki is about. :)

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R D Ramsey wrote:
A "RPGDB" site isn't a bad idea. I should add it to my list of things I'll never get around to making. ;-)

RPGGeek.com pretty much does this.

-Ben.

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terraleon wrote:
R D Ramsey wrote:
A "RPGDB" site isn't a bad idea. I should add it to my list of things I'll never get around to making. ;-)

RPGGeek.com pretty much does this.

-Ben.

Ah, cool. I thought there must be something out there, it's too useful to not exist!

Sczarni RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 , Champion Voter Season 6, Champion Voter Season 7, Champion Voter Season 8, Champion Voter Season 9

terraleon wrote:
R D Ramsey wrote:
A "RPGDB" site isn't a bad idea. I should add it to my list of things I'll never get around to making. ;-)

RPGGeek.com pretty much does this.

-Ben.

If someone actually enters data into it. Lots of gaping holes for 3PP stuff.

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