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In Hell's Bright Shadow (GM Reference)


Hell's Rebels

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Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Since we're sharing Vendalfek stories, my party wanted to meet with Lady Docur somewhere safe and secret, and hit upon the haunted reputation of Humbright House. Squatters had moved in after the PCs defeated the Red Jills, and they decided to have him make the place rehaunted. Since he has ghost sound at will, he basically moved in and started playing a CD of Halloween sound effects.

Did it work? He's a faerie dragon - of course it worked!


I have a rules interpretation question re: Threat of the Red Jills.

One of my PCs is a kitsune slayer who spends most of her time in human guise. When the encounter with Scarplume begins, and presuming the kitsune is in human form, I'll have her roll a Disguise check (+10 racial bonus) to appear human vs the strix's Perception to determine whether Scarplume thinks she's human or just a shapeshifter in disguise.

Here's the question: if Scarplume perceives this creature as human, would the strix racial trait "hatred" give the sorcerer's attacks against the disguised human the +1 bonus to hit/damage? That bonus, RAW, is "because of their special training against these hated foes."

So would her attacks hurt more against somebody she perceived to be human, because of added anger and rage? Or would her advanced techniques not work against the kitsune because they're designed to target inherent human weaknesses, and thus wouldn't be more effective against a spry kitsune?

And off-topic but since we're discussing Vendalfek: he's taken up residence atop the statue of Calistria in the Wasp Nest, and keeps his hoard of exotic liquors tucked away in the statue's underwater drawer. When Treep Fushi was killed by Blosodriette's sabotage and my PCs wanted to hold a proper tengu funeral for the first victim of the revolution, Vendalfek produced a bottle of Taldan Fire Brandy and gave one of the great silly eulogies of all time.


I would say no, because it states the bonus comes from special training in fighting Humans, rather than just pure dislike.
If it was a Morale bonus I would go with yes.

Although it's only a +1, so chances are it won't make a material difference to your fight either way, especially as if Scarplume sees through the disguise she's likely to prioritise Human targets instead. Good luck!

Silver Crusade

Misroi wrote:

Since we're sharing Vendalfek stories, my party wanted to meet with Lady Docur somewhere safe and secret, and hit upon the haunted reputation of Humbright House. Squatters had moved in after the PCs defeated the Red Jills, and they decided to have him make the place rehaunted. Since he has ghost sound at will, he basically moved in and started playing a CD of Halloween sound effects.

Did it work? He's a faerie dragon - of course it worked!

My group has a lot of love for Vendalfek... except the snobby elf, whom Vendalfek likes to prank. Vendalfek is really sad he can't put the elf to sleep. But he can grease his forks while he's eating.

My party likes to use Vendalfek when they need to make a distraction. He distracted the guards when they snuck out of the city to find Octavio Sabinus, and when they tried to break into the Holding House. (That latter part didn't work out so well for them.)


Meeting the Fushi sisters... or at least, the encounter immediately before meeting the Fushi sisters lead to us discovering this.

Whether or not this is a good thing has yet to be determined, but I thought I'd share anyway.

Silver Crusade

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I had a player who loved the Fushi sisters, so I ended up having to give them all personalities. I decided to go with the personalities of the Little Women as classics. Treep has been surprisingly helpful of informing them of facts about the city they would not know otherwise. "Guys. I thought EVERYONE knew that Corinstian Grivenner and Aluceda Zhol were lovers. Don't you pay attention to ANYTHING?"

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

My players didn't roll well enough on the Diplomacy check to get the Fushi sisters to stick around, so I might have to bring them back as a complication later on...

Silver Crusade

Misroi wrote:
My players didn't roll well enough on the Diplomacy check to get the Fushi sisters to stick around, so I might have to bring them back as a complication later on...

My player was so excited about seeing tengu NPCs, I would have let him make friends with them no matter what his diplomacy roll was.


It's kind of funny how their goal was apparently to get smuggled to Westcrown.

spoiler:
I wonder what would happen to them once the Glorious Reclamation takes over the city. Would they try to flee the city, or stay neutral? And what about when the Thrune agents take it back?

Shadow Lodge

Axial wrote:
It's kind of funny how their goal was apparently to get smuggled to Westcrown.

Maybe Nan wanted to eventually hand them off to Arael or Janiven.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

So all, I'm coming here for a little bit of advice, and to share my own ideas/experiences so far with this part of the AP. Hopefully I don't need spoiler tags since this is the GM topic.

First off, allow me to say this is fantastic, with a host of interesting and unique characters.

We have literally just finished off the second session of the AP. The first session saw my three players deal with the Aria Park, the Fair Fortune, and the Wasp's Nest. The party consists of a Steel Breaker Brawler, a Thundercaller Bard, and an Investigator. I have yet to adjust any of the encounters for 3 people.

Going into the second session, the group refounded The Silver Ravens, and began to take care of the various events that were around. There were some very, very close calls. They were able to find Blosodriette fairly quickly (Detect Fiendish Presence is fantastic for this campaign apparently), but that didn't stop her from almost downing the Brawler with a summoned Boa and doing some nastiness to the others. It was only because of a well placed Sleep spell from Vendalfek when she was visible that allowed them to get her down and force her to surrender, just to tear up her contract.

The other events went similarly well. The Tooth Fairies were pretty easy for the party, tracking wise and all that.

Full Metal Alchemist Spoilers:
Though I had to laugh at the Investigator, thinking that the murders were to make a magic rune to cause some massive ritual.

The doghousing went well, with our Brawler saving Zea. The Red Jills gave them a bit of a fit, because none of the characters are specked for ranged attacks. Downed the Investigator on more than one occasion. I was going to call the session at the end of the Red Jills, allowing everyone to level up to 3 before the final event, the Saltworks, and the Fantasmagorium. However, the party wanted to press on after I noted that the Saltworks was the last one. I figured it shouldn't be too bad, especially during the day given their builds.

...Boy, was I wrong. Despite gaining a surprise round by bluffing their way in about buying salt, they weren't able to take any of the 4 thugs out on the first round. By the end, they were able to get 2 of them down, but Kossrani was able to Tanglefoot the Brawler, who had the highest AC at that point. And my dice decided that now would be the time they barely rolled less than a 15, and all their dice would roll less than a 10. By the final blow, 2 of the Citizen's group were down, one had just been reduced to 3 HP, one was untouched, and Kossrani was at 5 HP. Add into that 6 crits during the battle, and limited healing, and...yeah, everyone went down into the negatives.

So now, I have to design them being prisoners at the Saltworks. Basically, they're going to be waking up a few days later with none of their gear, some working clothes, alongside the prisoners. They will not have been healed, but I am allowing them to level up to 3 based on the fact that they would have been there anyway. I'm going to have to decide where their gear is going. I'm also going to have them working the saltworks, making Fortitude Saves each day to avoid sickening/fatigue. If they can get out in one day, that's great. But they may have to take a few days, which may affect the Rebellion actions for the week, as they won't have their officers there.

Thoughts/improvements that could be made?


A few suggestions:

1. Let them recover 3 hp overnight and combined with new hp from jumping to 3 might get them to positive.
2. You could skip the fort saves against sickening for the first day.
3. I'd leave the gear on site for a couple days. Kossrani dutifully reported the incursion and the bureaucracy takes a while to respond.
4. Or Kossrani and his boys don't report the incursion and start selling juicier items off one at time to fund some drunken debauchery - which might be on site or off site. Either way it likely makes escape easier.
5. Did they ally with Vendalfek? Perhaps the faerie dragon seeks them out the next day? And helps with an escape. Or takes word to someone else.
6. Rexus probably can't orchestrate an escape on his own, but he could pretend to be purchasing salt and slip the pc's a couple of potions or a dagger or two.
7. The AP portrays the pc's fellow prisoners as "in no condition to fight" but they could simply be fatigued or sickened. If given the choice between a desperate fight at long odds or being worked to death in the salt mine - most might take the fight option.

Dark Archive

More Vendalfek fun. I created the encounter at Clenchjaw's as a social combat challenge in the format given with the social combat cards - a 4 x 4 grid starting in one corner and having to get to the opposite corner. In took the form of a pub fight, so rather than track failures I had each PC take 1d8 non-lethal damage at the end of their turn and another 1d8 non-lethal if they failed a check. The party was victorious in the end, though three had been knocked out from excessive non-lethal damage. I allowed a Knowledge (arcana) check at the end to determine a faerie dragon was behind the recurrence of the nightly brawls.

The party discussed overnight and decided to write a message in draconic on a banner. "Greetings faerie dragon. We enjoyed your performance as well. Instead of the same audience every night, we may be able to offer venues of much much more fun for you. Contact us at Clenchjaw's. We will be here. Look for the brimmed hat."

They returned to Clenchjaw's the next morning and hung the banner. Within minutes, Vendalfek made his appearance. He addressed the brimmed hat wearer as Brimmed Hat. The name instantly stuck.


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So, last night my PC's entered the Wasp Nest for the first time. While looking about they found the pier, and poor Nan's corpse underneath it. Unfortunately, it was the party Sandman bard who was the one to find him, so she became the first target of the albino croc's attack.

Now, the party last night consisted of the Sandman, a Dervish Dancer Bard and a Bloodrager. The party's Synthesist summoner couldn't make it that night, the party ninja is still a few weeks until he can join the game, Rexus is busy looking at the documents, and they told Laria she can chill while they went to go look downstairs. But I figured the encounter could be won if the party played it cool and beat it's fairly achievable Stealth roll DC that I rolled ahead of time, since it rolled low. Unfortunately, the PC's only rolled high enough to notice Nan, but not the croc.

So in the surprise round, the Sandman is bitten, grabbed, and dragged under into it's deathroll, bringing them straight into negative hp. The Dervish begins dancing, and charges the croc, dealing a severe blow. Realising that there is a new threat, the croc lashes out at the bard. Bite, grab, deathroll. Straight into the negatives again. Both bards are bleeding out in the water and it's only been a surprise round and a half.

At this point I'm worried this will be my first ever TPK and it'll be from a bloody sewer croc, but miraculously the Bloodrager does exactly enough damage to knock the croc unconscious.

Things got more exciting when Chough made her presence known, having been laughing and enjoying the show from the shadows. The 2 round grace period was a serious boon, honestly, since it let the bloodrager save the bards and get a head start on running for the door. When Chough came out, the bloodrager whips around and demoralises her, which was honestly pretty rad, since that also helped make sure that when Chough charged in for the kill, she ended up scrapping along the walls and missing. She also couldn't quite get the right angle for a leaping pounce, so she ended up having to double move and attacking via AoO as the bloodrager dove through the secret door and slammed it shut.

Suffice to say, that croc is SCARY. The PC's were really surprised at the sudden jump in deadliness. A good session overall. I even got to introduce Chuko! He gave the bloodrager a bro-deal on the masterwork handcrossbow, which they were convinced was some kind of heirloom. Their appraisal checks for much of the Livery loot were...low, to say the least. Some of the objects they got have been widely misattributed in value, but it will be fascinating to see what they make of them.

Dark Archive

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So I was never real keen on the Wasp's Nest location below the Longroads' Coffeehouse, so instead I put it below an abandoned warehouse in the docks area. My tie-in to get the PCs there was one of the PCs is from a lesser noble family whose family's business includes slavery - the patriarch is a Thrune sympathizer, so the PC son is a black sheep who sides with the rebellion. Nan was a contact to the PC and sent a letter that he needed help with a "delivery" (the Fushi sisters). That PC actually couldn't make the session we did the Wasp's Nest, so I had him missing and his manservant found the letter and delivered to the rest of the group. Everything worked out great as the group found Nan's corpse, battled Chough, negotiated with the remaining Fushi sisters who had their companion hostage, and recruited the Fushis to the rebellion.

During our next session, I am having the PC go to his father and propose his father invest in the abandoned warehouse and allow the son to run it to "get him into the family business". I am going to run as a verbal duel between the father and son that the son needs to win to convince the father of the investment. Longer term, I'm contemplating having the father "cook the books" of the fronted business which will lead to an inquisitor of Abadar (a sort tax auditor) confronting the PCs for loan fraud.


Hello all! Curious about a few things:

1) One of my PC's is obsessed with the platinum ring in the rafters of the Fair Fortune Livery. Any one have any good ideas of why it was up there in the first place? He's obsessed with it being a clue about the Silver Ravens or the "haunting" of the Livery and I'm just trying to think of any way it might be more satisfying than just saying "no, it's loot".

2) I like the Wasp's Nest being an abandoned shrine to Calistra. Has anyone worked anything more about that into the story? I was considering having an elven acolyte who worshiped there before they were rooted out return for revenge on Thrune and be a kind of uneasy/overly aggressive ally. Not sure if it's necessary or adds much though.

Any thoughts welcome!


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Society Roleplaying Guild Subscriber
weasels10 wrote:

Hello all! Curious about a few things:

1) One of my PC's is obsessed with the platinum ring in the rafters of the Fair Fortune Livery. Any one have any good ideas of why it was up there in the first place? He's obsessed with it being a clue about the Silver Ravens or the "haunting" of the Livery and I'm just trying to think of any way it might be more satisfying than just saying "no, it's loot".

Any thoughts welcome!

You could maybe have some of the papers they found in the Fair Fortune Livery discuss Amyreid - the cleric of the original Silver Ravens-

keeping extra platinum rings around in case she needed to cast Shield Other, and she kept one up in the rafters.

As for the Calistrian worshiper, I would only add that if you want to keep your players second-guessing NPC's. Many of the NPC allies in this first book make quick friends of the PC's, and as they gain more allies throughout the following books, some of the different motives for joining with the Silver Ravens start to clash. For instance Captain Sargaeta's keeping of halfling slaves and Laria being a Bellflower operative. If you want to keep those plates spinning with another NPC who might have clashing motives, then go for it. I'd imagine the Calistrian and Octavio would not get along too well as they begin to recruit the Order of the Torrent in Book 2.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Raynulf wrote:

Meeting the Fushi sisters... or at least, the encounter immediately before meeting the Fushi sisters lead to us discovering this.

Whether or not this is a good thing has yet to be determined, but I thought I'd share anyway.

Oh my gawd.


Page 49 of In Hell's Bright Shadow lists a pile of a dozen soul tomes in the list of treasure. The soul tomes described in the scrivinite's entry say that after the book is read and the knowledge absorbed, the book crumbles to dust. It would seem, though, that this treasure is meant to be reused. It also states that the treasure is worth 1600 go but it confers two +4 bonuses ( history or local) which would seem to make it worth 3200 based on the bonus squared times 100 formula. I'd like to offer a solution to those discrepancies and ask for feedback regarding that solution.

The Scrivinite's Sash is a silken sash of cloth worn on the head that gives the wearer a +4 competence bonus to knowledge History checks. Price:1600gp Aura:Faint Transmutation.

I had considered giving both history and local, but that would double the value of the treasure and throw the balance of the treasure pool.


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Can't help with the price but I think you may have jumped to a conclusion on the crumbling to dust. A literal reading of this sentence: "They crumble to dust once the stolen knowledge within
them has been reclaimed or restored" suggests they crumble to dust only when the memories' owner recovers them. And not when anyone else reads them. In this case, since the archivists are all dead, no recovery is occurring.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Ernestopresto wrote:

Page 49 of In Hell's Bright Shadow lists a pile of a dozen soul tomes in the list of treasure. The soul tomes described in the scrivinite's entry say that after the book is read and the knowledge absorbed, the book crumbles to dust. It would seem, though, that this treasure is meant to be reused. It also states that the treasure is worth 1600 go but it confers two +4 bonuses ( history or local) which would seem to make it worth 3200 based on the bonus squared times 100 formula. I'd like to offer a solution to those discrepancies and ask for feedback regarding that solution.

The Scrivinite's Sash is a silken sash of cloth worn on the head that gives the wearer a +4 competence bonus to knowledge History checks. Price:1600gp Aura:Faint Transmutation.

I had considered giving both history and local, but that would double the value of the treasure and throw the balance of the treasure pool.

I read it as "they can be sold for 1600 GP," which implies an actual value of 3200 GP.


Thanks!

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Or it could be treated like art objects - if it's worth 1600, it's sold for 1600.


Hokay, I have some questions.

First of all, the Wasp Nest. This is the source of several questions that came up.

A.) Stormwater Shrine - where does it lead? I saw earlier this has been answered as "to the sewers", fair enough... but~

B.) It's only 3 feet of water... by the description and appearance on the map, the dock isn't old/decaying.. so..why a dock? Ostensibly, smuggling halflings out, etc.. but a barge through the sewer systems seems..silly.. and the dock doesn't go all the way to the statue of Calistria, either.

C.) The gator. According to the text I could find in the book, the passage in/out has been blocked off a while ago... So how did a gator escape the patrols, through the sewers, and into a stormwater reservoir that's been closed off? I assume that's just an oversight, but an odd one, nonetheless.

D.) The sewer system itself. It's presumed the PCs might use the sewers to sneak around, there's even the sewer random monster chart for it.. so I'm curious as to where the PCs can and cannot go through the sewer systems.

And finally E.) which has nothing to do with the Stormwater Shrine.. can I just get a touch more clarification as to whether the group of PCs count as a Team for the number of Teams allowed?

Thanks for your patience and answers.


This is by no means official, but this is how I saw it:

Draven Torakhan wrote:
A.) Stormwater Shrine - where does it lead? I saw earlier this has been answered as "to the sewers", fair enough... but~

The stormwater drain is odd. It's hard to justify a 65 foot wide stormwater tunnel that runs parallel to the river and away from the sea.

I made the Academy, Green and the western part of Villegre each sit on small hills, with the road at the low point between them. The stormwater drain I made 20 feet wide with an arched ceiling that runs under the main road; circling the academy hill and discharging beneath the boardwalk at the harbor.

That might not be the original intent, but that was my best guess on how to make it work.

Edit: Then again, there is the universal trend in D&D to make all buildings grossly oversized in order to suit 5-foot squares. The Longroads coffeehouse, for example, is about 80 x 90 feet, which is absolutely humongous, even by modern standards.

Draven Torakhan wrote:
B.) It's only 3 feet of water... by the description and appearance on the map, the dock isn't old/decaying.. so..why a dock? Ostensibly, smuggling halflings out, etc.. but a barge through the sewer systems seems..silly.. and the dock doesn't go all the way to the statue of Calistria, either.

A small pole-driven barge (gondola sized) would work well at moving cargo through the drain system. the docks are there to secure it more than anything else. Small boats/barges/canoes are incredibly unstable when getting people & stuff in and out.

Draven Torakhan wrote:
C.) The gator. According to the text I could find in the book, the passage in/out has been blocked off a while ago... So how did a gator escape the patrols, through the sewers, and into a stormwater reservoir that's been closed off? I assume that's just an oversight, but an odd one, nonetheless.

I think the intent was that the Calistrians blocked off the stormwater system to have a dry temple, but the Asmodeans sacked it and destroyed their barricade, letting the water in - so now it is all connected again. The statue is mostly there to get PCs to go into the water and be attacked by the gater.

Draven Torakhan wrote:
D.) The sewer system itself. It's presumed the PCs might use the sewers to sneak around, there's even the sewer random monster chart for it.. so I'm curious as to where the PCs can and cannot go through the sewer systems.

Given that most of the city was raised up one level (in theory only on Argo isle), the sewers run along the old ground floor; specifically, between the building wall and the retaining wall for the street, normally.

Thus, the sewers basically follow the streets.

Draven Torakhan wrote:
finally E.) which has nothing to do with the Stormwater Shrine.. can I just get a touch more clarification as to whether the group of PCs count as a Team for the number of Teams allowed?

PCs aren't a "team", they fall into the category of officers and allies, and there is no maximum number. "Teams" are specifically things like Forvian Crow's mercenaries or the Fushi sisters.

In the rebellion system, officers (such as the PCs) can do officer things (recruit, fill officer roles etc), and teams can do team things (rescue character, earn gold etc) and the there is no crossover between the two. Officers/PCs/Allies do not count against the maximum number of teams.


Blosodriette ended up dying in the initial encounter. One PC had a familiar with scent and an aasimar muse-touched 1/day ability to do glitterdust. A lucky guess as to the area to cast it started the imp's downfall. Another PC comically had bought a rat catching net going to the Livery, which came in very handy. Color Spray bought them a round. It was an interesting battle!


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

So, the Scrivenite is suppose to warn Nox and the redactors in the Many-Steps Monastery when intruders show up with it's telepathy. But no where in it's entry does it have telepathy. It's within range if it had telepathy with a 100ft range, so I assume it's a typo.

P.S. The page given for it's bestiary entry is the page in the AP that it appears. "See page 46" on page 46.


Hmmm, which is the typo/mistake? The reference to telepathy for its tactics or the omission of telepathy as an ability it has?

In my pdf version, the introduction of the Scrivenite in area F1 is on page 46 and the parenthetical reference is correct (see page 86). Page 86 is correct page the full Bestiary write-up for the Scrivenite.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Society Roleplaying Guild Subscriber
Garbage-Tier Waifu wrote:


So in the surprise round, the Sandman is bitten, grabbed, and dragged under into it's deathroll, bringing them straight into negative hp. The Dervish begins dancing, and charges the croc, dealing a severe blow. Realising that there is a new threat, the croc lashes out at the bard. Bite, grab, deathroll. Straight into the negatives again. Both bards are bleeding out in the water and it's only been a surprise round and a half.

Per RAW the Croc can't grab and deathroll in the same round. Grab round 1 deathroll round 2.


My party hasn't been having much trouble in the combats thus far.

What would be the result of having 12 tooth fairies, rather than 8? Or does the onslaught of sleep spells make that a bad idea?

Silver Crusade

So, when I ran the tooth fairy encounter, the NPC wizard took out most of them with a burning hands and then decided he didn't want to outshine the rest of the party and spent the rest of the fight watching them try and fail to hit the 1 or 2 that were left for awhile. I wouldn't say they had a HARD time with the fight, but I would say it depends how much AoE your party puts out.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Society Roleplaying Guild Subscriber
roysier wrote:
Garbage-Tier Waifu wrote:


So in the surprise round, the Sandman is bitten, grabbed, and dragged under into it's deathroll, bringing them straight into negative hp. The Dervish begins dancing, and charges the croc, dealing a severe blow. Realising that there is a new threat, the croc lashes out at the bard. Bite, grab, deathroll. Straight into the negatives again. Both bards are bleeding out in the water and it's only been a surprise round and a half.

Per RAW the Croc can't grab and deathroll in the same round. Grab round 1 deathroll round 2.

Actually i have to correct myself this is not the rule he should get a death roll on the same round as grab but I see lots of GM's do it the round after he grab's


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I love the concept of Notoriety. It'll be fun to have a tactile representation for the party's fame and infamy. But I'm at a bit of a loss concerning special circumstances.

If the PCs use methods of disguising themselves, how does this affect Notoriety?

I'm fine with their actions raising their Notoriety score, but as it pertains to people recognizing the PCs (really the main threat of a high Notoriety), disguises should circumvent this. In the end, is Notoriety just an arbitrary number that alerts the PCs to how important it is to use subtlety?


Notoriety is just one dimension of a larger assumption underpinning the AP - that over time the pc's become known as the leaders of the Silver Ravens. This manifests in three ways - notoriety (how likely are they to be recognized by someone not in the rebellion, though it also might include how top of mind are the Silver Ravens based on recent actions), their ability to recruit supporters (you can't join a rebellion you can't find) and the chance those who need the Silver Ravens can find them. As a consequence, disguise regarding the identity of the Silver Ravens isn't really addressed in the AP.

The first question is - how are the pc's using disguise? Are they maintaining secret identity/hero persona's and the hero appearance is what they use whenever acting as Silver Ravens? Then just use Notoriety regarding the Hero persona's. But then they need to stay visible as the heroes even when not explicitly "on mission" otherwise how will they recruit supporters?

Are they changing disguises each time they engage as Silver Ravens? Then I would certainly allow them to keep a low notoriety but I'd also make it harder for them to recruit supporters. There's also a bit of cult of personality behind the Silver Ravens as I interpret the AP - there's some hero worship as sometime motivation for supporters.

The pc's can thwart some of these challenges by maintaining buffers - others who serve as the face of the Silver Ravens, but then these buffers should start getting harassed, arrested, dog-housed, etc. "Nah, I don't know who the Ravens are or where to find 'em but I know how you can contact them. Find a half-orc bouncer named Longneck at the Promiscuous Pearl. Bribe him with a few gold pieces and tell him 'you want to talk to Charlie about Varisian knives.'" At some point Longneck ends up floating in the river or being dog-housed. If the pc's are going to hide behind other NPC's, those NPC's are taking risks on the pc's behalf.


So I have a question about the tengu sisters in the Wasp Nest warehouse. Do the players have to roll a high enough diplomacy to move the sisters the two steps in one go to recruit them? Or can they do two different checks?

I mostly ask cause with Korva's 8 charisma, the check to move from Unfriendly is a 19, but to move all the way to Friendly would be a 24, which I think would be really difficult for a level one party.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I ran this as the party needed a single Diplomacy check at DC 24 to get the bonus team. With my party approaching the end of the rebellion, the usefulness of these teams is about to end, and I can say that while they missed out on the Fushi Sisters, they're not really hurting for teams.


Main reason I ask is I've got a group of players who kind of completionists, so they'll be disappointed in missing out on them.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I meam, it's your game, do what you want and what you think your players will enjoy. Based just upon the rules, they'd need to get a particularly difficult Diplomacy check, but you could modify it down to whatever you want, or eliminate it entirely if you want them to have the Fishis. Or maybe you could have them recruit the Fushis later, and the roll here just grants early access.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
matt Kendall 27 wrote:

So I have a question about the tengu sisters in the Wasp Nest warehouse. Do the players have to roll a high enough diplomacy to move the sisters the two steps in one go to recruit them? Or can they do two different checks?

I mostly ask cause with Korva's 8 charisma, the check to move from Unfriendly is a 19, but to move all the way to Friendly would be a 24, which I think would be really difficult for a level one party.

Keep in mind that the Fushi sisters are unfriendly. DC 19 to move to indifferent. This means that they will remain indifferent and can roll another diplomacy 24 hours later to further change their attitude. When rolling diplomacy, the only way a targets attitude changes for the worse is if the roll fails by 5 or more. This means if the PCs roll is 14 or lower the Fushi sisters become Hostile. So to break it down: a diplomacy minded character (+3 Cha, +3 class bonus, +1 rank) needs to roll a 7 to not screw up the talk. They can also assist one another on Diplomacy which could push this to a 5 if only one PC assists.

As long as they're careful in their talks, it's very likely they'll get the Sisters on board.

Sadly, in my group this wasn't the case. Lol
The group decided that a nondiplomacy focused character would do the talking. Even though they have a mesmirist with a +10 Diplomacy, someone else did the talking and failed enough to initiate a combat.

I understand your group is made up of completionists, but if there isn't consequence the game isn't fun.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Hello all,

I need some advice when it comes to Blosodriette. My PCs are level 4, and we are just finishing up some interlude adventures before we start Turn of the Torrent.

I did some of the scenes with the imp when I ran In Hell's Bright Shadow, but the PCs were not able to decipher what caused the collapse or messed with one of their member's minds. Normally I'd just go along with what the adventure path suggests next, however I had stop my campaign for about five months after my wife passed away.

I've since restarted and I completely forgot about Blosodriette entirely. Although many months in RL have passed, in game time, about three or four weeks have gone by since they last had anything to do with her. We've played about five sessions so far since restarting.

My problem is this; my PCs are level 4 and due to forgetting the little imp, I haven't done any of the security checks or had the PCs look for her. Indeed, they've mostly forgotten about the problem in the Wasp Nest itself. In game, they haven't been spending a lot of time there though; they've been mostly at the Tooth and Nail or gallivanting around Old Kintargo.

Does anyone have some advice on how to bring the imp back into play? The Adventure Path says when she's found out manipulating some of the Silver Raven's teams, she lays low for awhile. I can have her restart, though given the PCs advanced level and lack of security checks, I'm wondering if anyone has any advice on what I could do to wrap it up in a more meaningful way.


What the players don't know, you didn't mess up. One option here is to just let sleeping dogs lie and move the story forwards without the little imp. The key question is: does bringing this back in improve your player's experience of the world?


Gromnar wrote:
My problem is this; my PCs are level 4 and due to forgetting the little imp, I haven't done any of the security checks or had the PCs look for her. Indeed, they've mostly forgotten about the problem in the Wasp Nest itself. In game, they haven't been spending a lot of time there though; they've been mostly at the Tooth and Nail or gallivanting around Old Kintargo.

I find myself in the exact same position. And while I could just let it go, I feel like it makes more sense to have there be some kind of consequences for their inaction. I'm thinking I might have the little bugger finally figure out a way to get her contract into the hands of a lesser Sarini, who then tries to prove herself by raiding the Wasp's Nest. This also has the added bonus of pushing the players towards the Tooth and Nail or the Lucky Bones. Maybe Laria will even get captured.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Roguerouge wrote:
What the players don't know, you didn't mess up. One option here is to just let sleeping dogs lie and move the story forwards without the little imp. The key question is: does bringing this back in improve your player's experience of the world?

It is indeed a key question. I believe it would improve the player's experience and add more elements of intrigue.

ToastmanTom wrote:
I find myself in the exact same position. And while I could just let it go, I feel like it makes more sense to have there be some kind of consequences for their inaction. I'm thinking I might have the little bugger finally figure out a way to get her contract into the hands of a lesser Sarini, who then tries to prove herself by raiding the Wasp's Nest. This also has the added bonus of pushing the players towards the Tooth and Nail or the Lucky Bones. Maybe Laria will even get captured.

Would you be able to elaborate? I'd love to hear your idea!


Gromnar wrote:
Would you be able to elaborate? I'd love to hear your idea!

What, you want to hear me talk about my game ideas!? Oh, if I must... :)

I'm still working it out. I mostly didn't like the rapid hideout leapfrog from the coffee house to the Tooth & Nail to the Lucky Bones, so I thought I could accomplish several goals with a raid on the coffee house: 1) raise the stakes now that their rebellion is actually getting some traction, 2) remind them that their actions may have unforeseen consequences, 3) give them a reason to go to the Tooth & Nail (two of my characters already chose that as their workplace, so it's an obvious choice), and 4) introduce more of the flavor of the noble classes, who have been absent thus far. I'm picturing a young Sarini noble (totally a Draco Malfoy-esque clone) getting his/her hands both on Blosodriette and the knowledge of the Silver Ravens' whereabouts and going in without notifying Thrune so he/she can get all the glory. Even when the players win, their base will have been compromised, and they will have royally pissed off the Sarinis. Capturing Laria is something I'm still toying with. The PCs didn't really take to her, so she's not serving much of a function now. Captured, she'd give them more of a reason to hate Thrune.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
ToastmanTom wrote:
I'm still working it out. I mostly didn't like the rapid hideout leapfrog from the coffee house to the Tooth & Nail to the Lucky Bones, so I thought I could accomplish several goals with a raid on the coffee house: 1) raise the stakes now that their rebellion is actually getting some traction, 2) remind them that their actions may have unforeseen consequences, 3) give them a reason to go to the Tooth & Nail (two of my characters already chose that as their workplace, so it's an obvious choice), and 4) introduce more of the flavor of the noble classes, who have been absent thus far. I'm picturing a young Sarini noble (totally a Draco Malfoy-esque clone) getting his/her hands both on Blosodriette and the knowledge of the Silver Ravens' whereabouts and going in without notifying Thrune so he/she can get all the glory. Even when the players win, their base will have been compromised, and they will have royally pissed off the Sarinis. Capturing Laria is something I'm still toying with. The PCs didn't really take to her, so she's not serving much of a function now. Captured, she'd give them more of a reason to hate Thrune.

Interesting take. How does the Sarini get her contract, when it's in the Wasp Nest itself?

I've introduced a Sarini as well, as a LN Cleric (Appeaser) of Asmodeus. The "nicest" Asmodean they'll meet.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Gromnar wrote:
ToastmanTom wrote:
I'm still working it out. I mostly didn't like the rapid hideout leapfrog from the coffee house to the Tooth & Nail to the Lucky Bones, so I thought I could accomplish several goals with a raid on the coffee house: 1) raise the stakes now that their rebellion is actually getting some traction, 2) remind them that their actions may have unforeseen consequences, 3) give them a reason to go to the Tooth & Nail (two of my characters already chose that as their workplace, so it's an obvious choice), and 4) introduce more of the flavor of the noble classes, who have been absent thus far. I'm picturing a young Sarini noble (totally a Draco Malfoy-esque clone) getting his/her hands both on Blosodriette and the knowledge of the Silver Ravens' whereabouts and going in without notifying Thrune so he/she can get all the glory. Even when the players win, their base will have been compromised, and they will have royally pissed off the Sarinis. Capturing Laria is something I'm still toying with. The PCs didn't really take to her, so she's not serving much of a function now. Captured, she'd give them more of a reason to hate Thrune.

Interesting take. How does the Sarini get her contract, when it's in the Wasp Nest itself?

I've introduced a Sarini as well, as a LN Cleric (Appeaser) of Asmodeus. The "nicest" Asmodean they'll meet.

You could have Bloso Suggest it. ;)


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

This whole conversation regarding Bloso really makes me wonder why she doesn't attempt to get the Sarini's involved to begin with. Her desires are rather grey and convoluted. She was trying to open a portal to hell to return there but doesn't necessarily want to go back to hell. She finds her relative power on the Material to be more appealing. She enjoyed her life working for the Sarini family and it seems that would be her ultimate goal. The last thing she would ever want is to be destroyed on the Material because it would cease her existence.
So, it would appear that Suggesting (sp) an NPC or PC to make allies with a Sarini would be in her best interest.

I'm not sure why she would risk starting a fight between the dottari and the Ravens if it might expose her.

The more I talk about it, the more I think I might start having an NPC (Morgar?) begin suggesting the group make allies with a Sarini. After a while the PCs might question the NPCs motive and be suspect. It could lead to some interesting RP as the PCs tail the NPC to clandestine meetings all while being under the influence of Bloso.

Note that Bloso can only cast suggestion 1/day at CL3.
This gives her 3 hours for the character to pursue the Sarinis for each failed check.
At first, the NPC would most likely approach the PCs and encourage them to help him contact the noble family. If that's the case, Sense Motive allows a character to sense something's wrong with a successful DC 25 check.


Gromnar wrote:
Interesting take. How does the Sarini get her contract, when it's in the Wasp Nest itself?
BornofHate wrote:
You could have Bloso Suggest it. ;)

Yeah, that was my thought as well. Left to her own devices she could find some suggestible person to bring her contract up to the coffee shop, and then bide her time until someone with an obvious connection to the Sarinis comes in, then ride back with him.

BornofHate wrote:
I'm not sure why she would risk starting a fight between the dottari and the Ravens if it might expose her.

I agree that it doesn't make logical sense for her to take actions that risk her contract, like provoking a fight with the Ravens. I see her as more driven by revenge and inflicting pain than any kind of logic, though. She's been craving bloodshed for a long time, and she's only got a Wisdom of 10, so....

Also I played Blosodriette as a truly foul-mouthed imp who insulted the PCs creatively as they tried to capture her, and that was really fun, so I want to do that again. :)

Shadow Lodge Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8

While she may have enjoyed the work she did while serving the Sarinis, ultimately being bound by that contract is what screwed her over and got her stuck in a sewage-y basement for lo these many years. So she doesn't want to go back to working for the Sarinis, if only because the terms of her contract kind of suck, and she doesn't trust mortals to be reliable partners (they have a nasty habit of dying on you).

Taking just her contract to the Sarinis would surely result in lots of scrutiny for the document, and thus a return to servitude.

However, the contract is already mixed in with a bunch of papers, some of which were taken from Merindius Sarini, and the rest of which are written in a difficult cipher. If she can get that stack of papers to the Sarinis, that might allow her contract to go unnoticed among all the mundane documents, and might buy her enough time to find a Sarini she can trick or mind-control into releasing her.

So her first step is getting that stack of documents out of the hands of the Silver Ravens. A surprise dottari inspection, or turmoil within the group both seem like reasonable attempts to do just that. It's risky, but if it looks like the docs are going to get destroyed in the scuffle, she can always intervene with a suggestion or outright attack.

Once the Dottari get their hands on the docs, a reasonable suggestion regarding returning stolen papers to the Sarini family puts the packet right where she wants it.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I like your thinking Benchak, it gives me a bit of perspective into her potential motives. Yet, why would she even want to involve the Dottari? Wouldn't a more linear plan raise less suspicion and be less risky?

I'm just spit balling but wouldn't suggesting a member of the rebellion make contact with a "sympathetic" Sarini be less suspicious than suggesting a member make contact with the Dottari under the pretense of unsavory practices?

If her concern, as you say, is to get her papers back in the hands of the Sarinis this seems the most direct route. No?

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