can this work ?


Rules Questions


1/2 orc can have a bite with a trait.
it's a Poor weapon, with both -5 to hit and VERY low damage as off weapon.
but, if i go either a lore warden (HUGE cmb) or barbarian (rage cycle str surge) - i can use the bite as a free maneuver.

now, for example - a lore warden X \ maneuver master 2 can :
Full attack - with a great sword, power attacking and going all out.
free >> maneuver master, dirty trick at -2.
free - bite >> trip with greater trip and lore warden the -5 isnt a huge draw. which trigger binding throw, which trigger grapple.

round 1, level 9 :
foe is attacked with 3 great sword attacks (haste) + blind + prone + grapple.
if foe is large + delete the free grapple.

not a bad character , and not a single trick pony.


using natural attacks with armed attacks:

if you have armed attacks and natural attacks, you can perform a full attack with your all weapons and additionally perform all natural attacks. (you cant perform natural attacks with parts of your body you already used for your armed attacks, such as claws e.g.).

thats why the bite is pretty damn strong IMO.
you get 1 free attack in addition to all of your other attacks,
plus it doesnt bring a penalty to your other attacks (like TWF),
plus it comes with "only" BAB -5 regardless how many attacks you have, plus you´ve got 0.5x STR.
Also only in a full attack with weapons it´s secondary. usually its Primary and your only Primary attack, so in case of getting disarmed or grappled its 1.5x STR. In such situations its really good aswell.

Overall thats really good for any STR based melee i think especially barbarians e.g.

so you dont even Need any combat maneuvers to attack with your weapons and your bite. just a full-attack.


Baumfluch wrote:

using natural attacks with armed attacks:

if you have armed attacks and natural attacks, you can perform a full attack with your all weapons and additionally perform all natural attacks. (you cant perform natural attacks with parts of your body you already used for your armed attacks, such as claws e.g.).

thats why the bite is pretty damn strong IMO.
you get 1 free attack in addition to all of your other attacks,
plus it doesnt bring a penalty to your other attacks (like TWF),
plus it comes with "only" BAB -5 regardless how many attacks you have, plus you´ve got 0.5x STR.
Also only in a full attack with weapons it´s secondary. usually its Primary and your only Primary attack, so in case of getting disarmed or grappled its 1.5x STR. In such situations its really good aswell.

Overall thats really good for any STR based melee i think especially barbarians e.g.

so you dont even Need any combat maneuvers to attack with your weapons and your bite. just a full-attack.

Remember: the best part of doing this is to see NPC reactions to you trying to eat your enemies. Nothing like going on a boar hunt and getting first taste of the prize ...

There are problems later in the game, as it's a little hard to dedicate enhancements to that bite attack. But hey, eat while the eating's good!


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Note that going 1-2 levels in ranger (natural weapon style) qualifies the half-orc for Aspect of the Beast (Claws of the Beast). You now have two claws and a bite (all primary natural attacks that are available at all times), qualifying you for Multiattack (reducing the penalty on secondary natural attacks, including natural attacks mixed with normal weapon attacks, to -2).


Dirty Trick is a standard action, you could not replace a melee attack with it.

Quote:
Flurry of Maneuvers (Ex): At 1st level, as part of a full-attack action, a maneuver master can make one additional combat maneuver, regardless of whether the maneuver normally replaces a melee attack or requires a standard action. The maneuver master uses his monk level in place of his base attack bonus to determine his CMB for the bonus maneuvers, though all combat maneuver checks suffer a –2 penalty when using a flurry. At 8th level, a maneuver master may attempt a second additional combat maneuver, with an additional –3 penalty on combat maneuver checks. At 15th level, a maneuver master may attempt a third additional combat maneuver, with an additional –7 penalty on combat maneuver checks. This ability replaces flurry of blows.

Flurry of Maneuvers doesn't actually require you to have another attack or appendage to perform the action with. You don't need the bite, flurry of maneuvers just lets you make an extra maneuver on top of your full attack.

Am I misunderstanding what you're trying to do?


Claxon wrote:

Dirty Trick is a standard action, you could not replace a melee attack with it.

Quote:
Flurry of Maneuvers (Ex): At 1st level, as part of a full-attack action, a maneuver master can make one additional combat maneuver, regardless of whether the maneuver normally replaces a melee attack or requires a standard action. The maneuver master uses his monk level in place of his base attack bonus to determine his CMB for the bonus maneuvers, though all combat maneuver checks suffer a –2 penalty when using a flurry. At 8th level, a maneuver master may attempt a second additional combat maneuver, with an additional –3 penalty on combat maneuver checks. At 15th level, a maneuver master may attempt a third additional combat maneuver, with an additional –7 penalty on combat maneuver checks. This ability replaces flurry of blows.

Flurry of Maneuvers doesn't actually require you to have another attack or appendage to perform the action with. You don't need the bite, flurry of maneuvers just lets you make an extra maneuver on top of your full attack.

Am I misunderstanding what you're trying to do?

i'll explain.

take level 7, lore warden 6, monk 1 , `1/2 orc .
in a full round you get 3 parts of actions.
1) attack with the greatsword (+6\+1)
2) a bite, off hand with -5 to hit
3) free maneuver from a monk.
so, lets simulate.
first you attack, hitting hard with power attack that trigger cornugon smash > making the foe shaken.
than quick dirty trick will work from the free action of monk
than you get a bite > to use with a trip.


Dragonchess Player wrote:
Note that going 1-2 levels in ranger (natural weapon style) qualifies the half-orc for Aspect of the Beast (Claws of the Beast). You now have two claws and a bite (all primary natural attacks that are available at all times), qualifying you for Multiattack (reducing the penalty on secondary natural attacks, including natural attacks mixed with normal weapon attacks, to -2).

this will sound amazing on a rogue \ ranger 2.

3 attacks with sneak and yammi stuff.


666bender wrote:
2) a bite, off hand with -5 to hit

thats not correct. your bite is not an offhand attack. its a natural attack. i give you an example:

you dont have a greatswort, but 2 shot-swords plus the TWF talents.
you would have:
Main Hand shortsword: +6/+1 (plus TWF Penalty)
Offhand shortsword: +6/+1 (plus TWF Penalty)
natural attack bite: +1

its not anything like offhand attacks. in a full-attack you can perform all armed attacks you have (including everything like TWF, haste etc)
and additionally perform ALL natural attacks you have (except for natural weapons requiring parts of the body you used for your armed attacks. in that example you couldnt use claws, since you used shortswords already).


The bite attack on a reach-weapon user is also handy, as you now threaten everything within ten feet.

I see this in play every two weeks, and it is pretty damn effective.


how would that fair with monk's flurry? it's not using weapon...
if i flurry - is the bite main ? off?

The Exchange Owner - D20 Hobbies

Also, if you do the +1 Greatsword attack or the Bite as a CMD, you have the -5 penalty associated.

If your CMB for Trip is +10 and your attack bonus for the Greatsword is +8 and bite is +3 then you would make these Trip:
Trip +10 (1st Greatsword), Trip +5 (2nd iterative Greatsword), Trip +5 (bite)

If you did a Flurry it would be:
Trip +8 (1st greatsword), Trip +3 (2nd), Trip +3 (bite) and FoM free Trip +6


thats nice...
i think a hunter is even better than a lore warden. 3/4 bab and no kaboom bonus from lore warden but:
you are ever flanking = +4.
your pet offer +2 (corporate maneuvers ) and 2 rolls tandem trip
so...
you attack with a weapon .
bit for a trip,
flurry for a dirty trick.
not have bad.


666bender wrote:

how would that fair with monk's flurry? it's not using weapon...

if i flurry - is the bite main ? off?

Any time you use a natural attack the same time you use manufactured weapons (and monk or brawler fists count), the natural attack is always considered a secondary natural attack. It's not an off-hand one, true. But it's at -5 to hit and half Strength modifier to damage.

For reference, look up a riding horse's normal attacks. They're all 'secondary', since most riding horses aren't bred for melee combat, so there aren't even any primary ones. Conversely, a hungry unarmed barbarian with Animal Fury is going to chomp as a primary (and as a single natural attack there's a bonus to damage) ... but when she gets her hands on a weapon to swing, that bite downgrades to secondary. A small price to pay for the benefits.

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