Posible members of Brotherhood of 7? (Might have spoilers)


Rise of the Runelords


Hi!
In my RoRL and ShStar mixed AP, I want to flex out the brotherhood of 7.
My idea is that, although they are all of them pawns of Karzaug, they might be related to the 7 sins somehow. My players jumped into that as soon as they heard it, and as I'm also using the shards (and plan to involve more runelords,some of them as background, some appearing like Krune with the PFS escenarios), it's fitting I think.

I think I have 6 of them. Ironbriar, Aldern Foxglove, Xanesha, Lucretia, Nualia, and Avalexi (the Succubi from Dawn of Scarlet Sin, which I'm going to play too). Those could be an "avatar" of Pride, Gluttony, Sloth, Greed, Wrath and Lust,although Aldern or Xanesha could represent Envy if the new candidate fits better with s different one But I need a 7th one.
I would like it to be relevant before the giants start to become omnipresent.

Sheyla Heidmarch would be huge shock value. Lonjiku might work too. Maybe a leader of Lissala Cult? Trying to raise Krune? Some addition from any extra PFS scenario or some stand alone adventure?


(As a side note: while Nualia had the Shard of Wrath, which she found below Glassworks, most of the Brotherhood won't have shards themselves. And they still work, mostly unknownly, as Karzaug's pawns, who, as lord of greed, desires to get all the shards and reunite the sihedron for himself). Some of his pawns hold, or search for, a few shards. Mokmurian has Pride. Nualia had Wrath, briefly. Probsbly Xsnesha or Aldern has an extra one. A few others are hidden beyond doomsday Doors, in the pocket realm where Headless Rider lives, in Leng, and in the lady of light (I changed the backstory of the 2 groups there, one of them Karzaug's pawns and the gray maidens are Illeosa's army, who is alive and under Sorshen influence in my game, competing with Karzaug for global dominion)


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber

I don't know that I would use those NPCs as your 7 for the Brotherhood.

The Brotherhood of the Seven is a Skinsaw cult headquartered in Magnimar. This secret Norgorber cult meets in Seven's Sawmill on Kyver's Islet, and is made up of seven members of Magnimar's minor aristocracy.

Having the group of actual monsters make up the Seven actually blunts them, I think it is much more interesting if the 7 are actually amongst the wealthy of the city and are hedonistic sociopaths that one would never suspect.

As such, I CAN really see an interesting idea of the Brotherhood being an actual political descendant of the Runelords themselves, or of one of their councils, with each member having a liason who is an agent of their appropriate Runelord/Sin.

Thus the Brotherhood is a cult, run by 7 decadent nobles.
Each noble is a servant of a particular sin.
Each noble has an agent behind them (such as how Xanesha is behind Ironbriar).


Mmm yes, my post lacked a lot of context.

I changed Norgorber appearance in the adventure, and my cult of murderers pray Shax instead. I also changed The Chopper's demonic influence to Shax, and Nualia herself was also infected by demons in the catacomb of Wrath who prayed Shax, who thus become a more coherent background enemy, instead of multiple different evil gods who aren't related (and sometimes even are enemies, as Pazuzu and Lamashtu).

Your point about the minor aristocracy and not "blunting" them as pure monsters is quite good, but I'm not sure how many of my candidates wouldn't work as such. Aldern Foxglove IS a minor aristocrat (and Vorel Foxglove was actually one of the founders of the B-7). The succubi Avalexi could work, through the charmed cleric of Shax (refluffed as a minor noble) in the Dawn of Scarlet Sun adventure that is her pawn. Xanesha and Lucretia could pass as humans and nobles, and in fact, they do. They are also incredibly old, an such could be kind of the "mentors" that have rebuilt the Brotherhood with the hopes to bring back the Runelord(s). Lucretia picture in particular scream hedonistic noble imho. I guess I could create random NPCs to work as liaison, either faithful, convinced, charmed, or deceived.

Lonjiku could work too. Maybe Lonjiku was involved, but then he didn't have enough "evil" in himself to finish the plans once it went too far, and Tsuto took over (envy would work perfectly for both)

The one that wouldn't work at all, is Nualia, which is too much a hammer instead of a precision tool of deception. I would need someone more Magnimar based, and wrathful. With a few background changes, maybe the Bad Evil Guy at the end of the Golemwork Incident could be it. Thoughts?


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber

OK, that does make some changes.
I understand why you have made the choices that you did.

Based upon the one member of the Brotherhood that we have, Ironbriar, it seems to me that the heads of the B7 should be people who have more than just personal power, they should have money and lackeys.

You could use the NPCs you've listed, but for me, I like the idea that the seven are (relatively) normal people who are monstrous on the inside, and perhaps have an actual monster as a patron (such as a lamia or succubus or vampire or whatever). I can also see making Lucretia's set up being part of the B7, but I like the idea that the B7 are a political force IN Magnimar, and their influence outside of it is minimal.

I can see the whole situation shattering the B7, and factions working at cross purposes, it really depends upon how much you want to include the Brotherhood as part of the campaign. As it is written, I DO see the Brotherhood as a unresolved thread - just one more reason I don't like the link between 2 and 3...


Yep, I guess I'm with you at the most basic level. The B7 should be relatively normal people with political and economic power, working for, or as pawns, of okder and more powerful creatures of real evil.

Ironbriar is the best possible example. I could ramp up the economic influence of Chrysalys Black (the owner of the Golemwork), and change the story to make Aldern Foxglove more relevant. Instead of unwilling and blackmailed by the B7, he could be a real heir to Vorel's ambition.

That would change his motivation quite a bit, changing how he's perceived from "tragic lover with lot of bad luck" to "evil monster", but my players already played books 1-2 and half of 3 of RoRL, and important changes like this make them happy because it shakes what they expect. Including stuff like Lady's Light change the tone a bit (from "let's save Sandpoint" to "epic worldwide adventure" but with muy group, I think it's worth it, so they don't play the same experience twice.

The problem with making the B7 regular humans with political power is the lack of said NPCs in the campaign, and the fact you need 7 of them. I guess I could make Grobarass, the mayor, one of them. He would be weak in a direct fight, but maybe this could become an interesting political struggle instead, my plsyers like those challenges.

Lonjiku, heir of a far realm, might work, with Tsuto taking over when he tries to get an out because he feels the whole "mass destruction and global dominatiom" goal could be a bit too far. This could be the thing Tsuto was blackmailing Lonjiku with, so he let the goblins go through his smuggling tunnels below the Glassworks. He's involved with the corruption of Nualia already in my game and my players know it and hate him, so it could work well. How to kill Ameiko's father could be a good RPing experience too. They'll need to convince Ameiko that his father is beyond redemption.

Sheyla Heidnarch is a great target too. Politically powerful, unsuspecting. The problem here is I need her to "push" the PC through the Shards and rejoin the Sihedron. It could work if she remain hidden until the very end, but by them, the B7 is irrelevant, do this might be a weak option. Also, not EVERY NPC should be a traitor, or the PC won't trust anyone.

So, briefing:

Ironbriar, who could work as Pride, maybe Wrath.

Lonjiku, then Tsuto taking over, could work with envy's theme.

Chrysalys Black, the owner of the Golemwork, could work as Pride , maybe wrath.

Aldern Foxglove. Could work as gluttony as he feeds on humans.

Grobarass, the major. Being a fat man, Sloth. Need to depose him, not just killing him.

Zadani, the priestess of the Shax cult. Might ramp up her power in the religious power scheme, as a false priest of Saerenrae or similar good god. And this could work with The Dawn of Scarlet Sun with some changes, as they are tsrgetting saerenrae's church members.

Need a last one for greed. This could be Xanesha of Lucretia disguised, or a different human member. Titus Scsrnetti might work, but he's better un his role of "not every disgusting people are CE monsters. Some are just disgusting people", I think. I could make up a random rich family, owners of the Seven's Sawmill, but it sounds like a stretch. Maybe some crime lord or thieve guild master?


I guess I don't like the B7 being a loose thread or unresolved situation. I think it should wrap up the first 3 books, before the PC realize this is not the work of a snall group of low power conspirators in Magnimar, but it includes more powerful beings like Mokmurian and his army of giants. B7 is involved un everything from the original Nualia's raid with goblins (through Tsuto, Lonjiku, and feeding Nualia with gold) to Turttleback's ferry, where Lucretia is trying to reap souls faster. That includes a raid to Lady's might (the group of the dhampir, paid by them) to get the Shard of Lust. B7 holds 2 shards, Wrath and Envy, and tries to get the rest.

The B7 could work as a fake "mid adventure" BBEG. Once they are destroyed, the PC feel the day is saved, only to be in the receiving end of a giant's raid to Sandpoint and realize there's a lot more to fight


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber

I don't like them being a dangling thread either, but I don't envision my players worrying much about the B7 given the course of events and that Titus Scarnetti is shaping up to be a mid-campaign enemy for my game.

I dont really want to use any of the Sandpoint families as enemies linked into the sins and evil monsters/demons they just need to be not nice people, even non-evil not nice people.

For you, I'd almost like to save the end of the B7 for Turtleback Ferry.
Have Lucretia's gambling den still floating, and have it sink during the whole Black Magga event. I really would like to have the Paradise be a thing that the PCs get to interact with.


The Paradise could be great, specially if the PCs manage to know a few people there who could be good people. Things like someone trapped in a debt, trying to gain money to pay for it, or a father who needs gold for his (diseased?) son, and they aren't really that greedy. It could be a good roleplaying season, my group likes those. We played one session the other day without rolling dice, or even having chars. We forgot to bring the PCs :D, so we went to investigate a bit about the shards, the Runelords, and Natalya, the first book Shattered Star varisian rogue which stole the first shard, and we had good fun with such an uncommon session.

We could play the Paradise a bit, and then sink the whole thing, before the PC can save those who are redeemable (or some of them at least). That could make them hate Lucretia personally, and Villains are much better if PCs hate them and want to defeat them for other reasons than "XP and treasure". Black Magga could work, as long as the PC "feel" that let Black Magga come with the flood was part of the plan (it's not, but they might not now)


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber

That all sounds like it should work - allowing you to MOSTLY tie up the loose ends of the Brotherhood, but still leave some wiggle room if you want one to return.

I don't need to agree with your choices for the 7, but the basic plot idea works pretty well, I'll think about it over the weekend.


lots of thanks for your effort ^^

About the Paradise, the opening scene in Second Darkness is about a gambling den, playing a game called "cheat the devil and take his gold". Mechanics aside, it's a game where you try to cheat your way through bidding, winning money from other players, trying to get a big pot against "the devil", which is more or less an Imp croupier. The interesting thing is that people who lose, can get an extra attempt, but they are marked (with Arcane Mark or something like that, can't remember), because this is a 1 time use only special bet. This could work well, modifying it a bit, for Paradise. You play, you gamble, you try to cheat and win gold. If you need more gold, or another try, you can. You have to get this nice tattoo, though. It's a seven point star.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber

I really like the idea of the players being able to interact with the Paradise, and it is a good place for the Brotherhood to go down (with the ship) but die an obscure death.

Smacking the Paradise around with Black Magga is a fun idea, but you have to really think through the order of events - flow chart the sequence of events from the end of Skinsaw to the point where Fort Rannick is cleared and the damn investigated and decide upon HOW you want to make it work.


I'm really surprised you don't have any Sczarni in your B-7 group, as it seems like at least one of them would have ties to "the family" or at least be a double agent of some sort. That would go especially well for your greed member.


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I wish to revamp this discussion. Here's my idea.
The B7 is a good plot element to develop an idea of intrigue in the campaign, even though RotR is not developed to be a social-intrugue adventure, as such they are just the cover for another cult that is easily dispacted. However, if DMs wish to shift the focus from the village of Sandpoint to Magnimar, the B7 is an unique element that works, for me, better than the already established politics and powers in the city.

So, first: what was the original brotherhood aim? To control the market of Magnimar? To extend the control over east side Varisia? To gain insight over elder magic or it was simply a decadent association or a cover for the skinsaws? The book suggests it was just the latter.
I see them as a logde of people loosely affiliated nowdays, like a 1 every three months roleplay group that does oneshots time after time. During these meetings, they basically put resources together to enhance their plots with greater force or influence they could singulary muster. Too bad some of them are, basically, sociopatics that blackmail people and are quick to murder them if they try to rebel.

Now, about membership, we should clarify something - active menbership, passive mebership and inherited membership. I believe the brotherhood was made at the time of Vorel Foxglove, which is 50-40 years before the adventure. As such, possibly many of the originals brothers are dead and their descended have inherithed the title. Also, it's quite possible that during time brothers were added or removed, and that the families that were involved simply become disinterested. As such

1) Surely Ironbriar should be one of the original brothers. The question is - he's more a cultist than a brother, or he plays both parts to further is own goals? If we want a more relevant brotherhood, he
should remain a cultist, but use them to pursue the brotherhood aims while, on the other hand, using the brotherhood to subtly enforce his will. The coming of Xadesha could have greatly changed things, but being charmed does not mean to have lost your insight ...

2) Vorel's family is already covered by Aldern. While Vorel was a menber, and possibly a Norgorber cultist, his descendet should have lost any menbership. So, we got a "free brother seat" to fill.

3) The Kaijitsu could have well worked inside that organization. Lojinko could well be a past menber, or even current. This do not make him evil per se, but he could have gain insight of the activities of some of the members - and maybe this is way he lives in Sandpoint and not in his bigger house in magnimar. If so, Tsuto could have been approached and offered his father's former status in the group in exchange for his murder, conduced as a ritual sacrifice following orders b X herself.

Now, about possible other menbers, i think this:

Chrysalys Black, the owner of the Golemwork, is an interest fellow and could well be a brother by his family part. Also, he could well be outside X and Ironbriar control due to the use of simulacrum, and possibly be a player against X.

I would well see someone from Adabar church be a brother by family and being either deceived or blackmailed by Ironbriar's faction to act in certain ways.

Scarnetti's family is also a good lead, if we follow the Kaijitsu logic of refusing murder and fleeing to Sandpoint.

An intriguing idea could be the fact that B7 has branced in other cities over the years. Having someone at riddleport or on the ferry village could be a good lead.

Having Sczarni as menbers could be a possibility, but those would have probably gained menbership by morey. Yet, i think Ironbriar could have well allowed a Sczarni person to become affilated with the criminal underground and then later organize a benefical harvest for both the city and norgorber.


In the end, the goals of my group are shifting fast. I try to keep open "threads" for them to follow, by adding content from other sources, including Shattered Star campaign, and stand-alone products such as The Race for the Runecarved Key, or other stuff. Then I try to make the story go around the threads my players react more interested to.

They are becoming more and more interested in Magnimar, and in Lissala's cult (from the Season 4 PFS scenarios), and thus the B7 got extra work. Also, because of the background of some of the players, the "evil masters behind the puppets" approach worked better for my particular group, in my opinion, so I went with that.

Finaly my version was:

The B7, itself, is a secret society made to enrich themselves through whatever means they want. Among the starting members, we have Ironbriar and Vorel Foxglove, and also the Kaijitsu family. Current members include Zadiana (aristocrat member of the Saerenrae church, secretly a Shax worshipper), Vorel's foxglove relative, Aldern, Ironbriar (Justicar of the City, secretly a Shax Worshipper and a cultist), Chrysalys Black (a rich man, owner of a factory in a Golemwork, and also a noble), Tsuto Kaijitsu (a bastard son of a former member, Lonjiku, and actually Ironbriar's son), Lady Lucretia (a very rich noble woman, with several casinos and gambling sites in Magnimar and other places), and Lord Mayor Grobaras (the mayor of the city)

However, the B7 was contacted by a different group, which is the real power behind them. Those monsters have different goals, and actually try to goad them to do things that are in the best interest of this "inner circle". Those are Xanesha, a Lamia Matriach, Xanesha's sister, Xyobara, which is impersonating as Lady Lucretia, Nerthul (a long-dead alien head, conserved in a jar, with mind powers, dating from Thassilonian empire), Faustus (an advanced Shadow Demon), Bhudra (a Dark Naga), Avalexi (a shax-worshipping succubus, mother of Ashamintallu, the aludemon the party fought in Shattered Star's Lady of Light adventure) and the Spirit of Misgivings (the original spirit that drove Vorel Foxglove mad). This inner circle is much more older, and has a different goal, which is the rise of the Runelords. While there are some disagreements in the inner circle (about which Runelords rising first, or if hey should raise all of them, etc), the Inner Circle more or less work together to this goal, specially since the Runewells went up 5 years ago.

My party was interested to uncover the B7 (before they knew there was an Inner Circle), so they tried to mix with the cream of the city. They went to a benefit dinner, made prior a very important auction of a Thassilonian artifact (The Race for Runecarved Key, modified). There they met most of the powerful movers and shakers in Magnimar, including the B7, but also several other important people (like the NPC that go to the Runecarved auction). They loved this part, with all the political interaction, trying to uncover the secrets of the city (and some red herrings, like Golemworks overlord Toth's relationship with a very high level aristocrat, or the Aspis Consortium member) After the Lissalan cult stole the key (and learning they want to revive High Priest Krune), they followed a clue, given by their new dhampir friend Gnarus, about a vampire lissalan cult in Palin Cove (the Cultist Kiss scenario), and discovered that more than 1 faction is trying to do something with the old thassilonian kings, even tho they don't seem to work together.

They went back to Magnimar, followed some clues, and end up interrupting a ritual murdering in Seven's Sawmill, were they killed Ironbriar's and Tsuto (which they have been following for a few days, after seeing him free in Magnimar, when he should be in jail). They also saw Faustus, the Shadow Demon, who teleported away as soon as defeat was obvious.

Now they have the help of Ironbriar's liutenant, the good soldier Kassadei (who helped them to defeat Avalexi and Zadendi a month ago), who is aware of the existence of this Brotherhood, that Ironbriar was part of it (she saw the Seven's Sawmill stuff), and that other powerful members of society are involved too.

My group is now facing a double threat. They need to defeat the political side of the B7, including Mayor Grobaras (which they know is a member, but don't have proofs against him, and can't just go and tell people "the mayor is a bad guy, put him in jail"). They also know that there is an inner circle, which needs to be destroyed, but the teleporting Shadow Demon might or might not be telling the other members that the adventurers are coming.

My group left last session at midnight, after defeating Ironbriar. They think (correctly) that they have the rest of the night to try to coup de grace most of the Inner Circle, and get enough proofs to jail the political movers. It's a race against time, against overwhelmingly superior foes, in their lairs, while prepared, so easy as pie. They have some help (Kassadei and a few loyalist guards, Oriana and her Shield Maidens, Gnarus the dhampir Magus), but hey need to cover a lot of ground in the city, and move fast. They already know at least a couple of places to go: the Shadowclock Tower, and Chrysalys Black's Doll House, which may or may not lead them to other clues (through the ever present "evil guys journals" and "evil guys correspondence")

They have already defeated and killed Avalexi and Zadiana, Ironbriar, Tsuto, Aldern Foxglove and the Misgivings. They are ready to strike against Chrysalys Black (and unknown to them, Nerthul, the alien brain in a Jar), and Xanesha's Shadowclock Tower (which, depending on timing, might include Faustus the Shadow Demon, who is counciling with the Lamia right now), but they don't know the location (yet) of Bhudra the Dark Naga, don't even know the existence of Xyobara, and lack proofs to go against Lady Lucretia or Mayor Grobaras.

My game has shifted away a lot from Sandpoint saviors, but the players seem to study with more interest the clues about Magnimar, the political coven, and the Brotherhood, so I just follow their trail. They are still interested in Sandpoint, though: they know Broder Quink is digging below the glasswork to study the thassilonian dungeon (and they fear he could "dig deeply and greedly, awaking the shadow and the flame"), and they didn't kill Malfeshnekor -who is a tindalos hound in my game- back when they were lvl 3, beleiving he's trapped (he's not, he has been freed by the goblin's leader, who escaped alive, a goblinoid Oni, meant to be a nemesis of the party's tiefling Samurai). Depending how things go, Malfeshnekor could end being "The Thing Beyond Time" in book VI.

The party has now several other threads open too: they know about lissala's cult and Krune's resurrection (in The Waking Rune), they know about Sheyla heidmarch's archeological digging in Hollow Mountain, they know about the Shards (and want to reproduce the Sihedron), they know about Broder Quink's digging, they know about Kaer Maga being an important hub of info from Thassilonia (in the library, as seen in The Asylum Stone, which is going to be tied to Hook Mountain's Massacre), they have the whole B7 big issue, and they have an underlying metaplot about Runelords rising (including Queen Illeosa quarantining Korvosa right now, because of a plague that they know the B7 had a hand with, selling Vorel's Phage to Red Mantis agents)

So let's see what happens :P


Gah! That's more threads and side-treks than I would like to handle as GM, but if you can manage all that without breaking a sweat or having a nervous breakdown, then kudos to you! :)


Actually we have a couple more, like one related to the time patron of the witch (currently trapped in time in a Shattered Star artifact, and sending prophecies to the witch), and the Ulfen bloodrager-cleric having dreams of slayibg dragons and becoming a king, among others.

But yes, players have said that there are too many things to do, and not enough time to do them all. Which is OK, I wants to vive that feelibg to the AdventureQuest, like "this is too much, it overwhelms us"


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber

Love it Gustavo.
All those potential side treks give the players not only choices, but activity happening in the background.

Have you given them any friends who might help them along the way - look into some of the problems that they don't have time for?


Yes. They are friends with Gnarus, the nagus dhampir found in lady of light (although the LG cleric is a bit uneasy with him, being a loyal, but evil, mercenary), as well as Orianna, the shield maiden, as well as Shaelelu and Ameiko, plus broder Quink and Sheyla Heidnarch, the pathfinder master, and Kasadei, the Magnimar Liutenant, has helped them in the past and is deeply thankful to them because they stop Avalexi murder spree (which was Kassadei assignment)

Last session, they sent Gnarus to infiltrate the Foxglove manor in Magnimar, to search for clubes as they knew Tsuto had slept there for a while. They went to Shadow Clock in the meanwhile, helped by Orianna. Kassadei arrested Grobaras that might, they think they have enough proofs to jail him. That's tgree things happening at the same time, which they coukdn't do without friends

They have had help from Sheyla and Quink in the past as well, giving info about the things they can't cover.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber

That's great Gustavo - sounds like you running a world in which the story that the player's are experiencing is their own, but they can see that there are other stories out there which they could get involved in if they so desired.


Thats the idea, yes. They know they can't do every thing, but they can choose what they involve with.

I think it helps to get an atmosphere of inevitability. 7 runelords are awakening in a way or another, and they can't stop all of them. It's like those cartoons using fingers to stop the holes in the boat, until they run out of fingers.

It also helps to mix both a sandbox-like style, with a Story driven Adventure, more railroading. Players have options, but if they get stuck in a decision, things happen and mover the story forward

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