How to build a dwarven druid?


Advice


I'm trying to come up with a decent dwarven druid build.

After browsing through the books and some online info I came up with 3 ways things may go:

-Full caster druid (20 points build):
Str07 Dex16 Con16 Int10 Wis19 Cha05, takes weather domain and starts with Spell Focus (conjuration), then Augment Summoning (3rd level), and natural spell (5th level). Trait: Glory of Old. Should be great at casting and have great saves.

-Beast of the wild (20 points build)
Str16 Dex14 Con16 Int09 Wis16 Cha05, animal companion (I'm not fond of switching during play, so depending on the type of campaign big cat or baby Roc), goes Skill Focus-Handle Animal (1st level) then Power Attack (3rd level) and Natural Spell (5th level). Trait of choice is Beast Bond.Skill focus is there to mitigate the drawback of 05 cha when trying to teach the animal companion tricks of pushing it (it's a +9 to handle animal checks with the pet at lvl 1 thanks to the link).

-The middle grounder (20 points build)
Str11 Dex14 Con14 Int10 Wis18 Cha10, he goes animal companion (same as above), feats will be: Spell Focus (conjuration), then Augment Summoning (3rd level), and natural spell (5th level). As for trait I'd go again with Beast Bond. A better rounded character overall although lacking the distinct strengths of the two previous builds.

Which one do you think works better? Am I doing something wrong?

Thanks for the advice!


A druid doing a lot of summoning probably wants to be one of the animal shamans to get fast summons. I can't remember which domains they get, but I'm not sure any of them get Weather as an option.

Edit: I'm wrong, an eagle shaman could.

A druid can instead go for battlefield control and be good at it. They probably want Improved Initiative (to get the entangle or whatever in place before the enemy gets to move) and if they have a companion Improved Spell Sharing, if not maybe Spell Focus (transmutation) or Steel Soul.


avr wrote:

A druid doing a lot of summoning probably wants to be one of the animal shamans to get fast summons. I can't remember which domains they get, but I'm not sure any of them get Weather as an option.

Edit: I'm wrong, an eagle shaman could.

A druid can instead go for battlefield control and be good at it. They probably want Improved Initiative (to get the entangle or whatever in place before the enemy gets to move) and if they have a companion Improved Spell Sharing, if not maybe Spell Focus (transmutation) or Steel Soul.

Thanks for your imput.

My problem with the animal druids is how they limit the choices avaiable to their specific type of animal. Fast summons are great (and better still with improved initiative, thanks for the heads up) but it's clear that with a full spellcaster build I don't want to change shape all that much considering I dumped str.
For the Beast of the Wild an totem animal druid seems like a mighty fine choice though!

Scarab Sages

How do you build a Dwarven Druid? You carve it out of a big stone monolith, naturally.


Well, even a Caster-Druid will be changing shape a lot for the mobility and special powers of the elemental forms. Flight, Swimspeed, earth glide, vortex, all that stuff.

Liberty's Edge

Changing shape can still be really handy for caster druid, but instead of choosing large animals with a lot of natural attack, you probably want to find a small flying animal to be able to stay above the battlefield, raining spells down from above, or even just using your vantage point to stay out of the way of melee enemies. Though you do have to watch out when ranged enemies come into play. Also shape change can be very handy for scouting/sneaking, and the different types of movement you can get can be really handy.

Personally I would probably go for the melee/animal companion build if you don't expect to see a lot of high level play, or take the caster if you do. A melee druid can often handle combat by it's self at low levels, between it and the animal companion, but their effectiveness drops off at mid-high level, when the animal companion becomes weaker and the expectation is that you're spending time buffing it to keep up, instead of wading into combat yourself.

EDIT - darn it, ninja'd by 3 seconds

Dark Archive

Actually, I'd expect a dwarf to use the Cave Druid or Mountain Druid archetype. When someone would say dwarven druid I would not expect a big cat or a weather domain. (But maybe that's the twist.) Maybe a small cat. (mountain lion) The roc would be fine, but there's also the dire bat that would fit better thematically.

Liberty's Edge

Actually, a dwarven goliath druid would seem pretty fitting. Learn to grow big so you could fight your hated enemies on even ground.


I am just toying with a build and am still not sure whether to take druid or cleric for it. But as it is for a dwarf I thought I'd mention it:

1 Level of Ranger (dungeon rover and trapper archetype)/ 4 levels druid / x levels of sky seeker (sun seeker on d20pfsrd).

You only lose 1 BAB, get a good amount of spellcasting (at level 15 you have 11 levels of druid spellcasting, CL 13 with a trait) and if you take the shapeshifting druid feat you get 2 favored enemies and only need to mix in ranger 2 for a second time wildshape per day. As you eventually get heavy armor prof and the ability to use ranger combat styles in heavy armor the second level fits in well. Even if it makes you lose another level of casting. This will be a weapon melee guy, mainly.

Not really worth it for some games (depending on whether you have orcs, goblins and giants as enemies) but overall a nice build.


Your second build could benefit from a 1 level dip into wild child brawler.


the David wrote:
Actually, I'd expect a dwarf to use the Cave Druid or Mountain Druid archetype. When someone would say dwarven druid I would not expect a big cat or a weather domain. (But maybe that's the twist.) Maybe a small cat. (mountain lion) The roc would be fine, but there's also the dire bat that would fit better thematically.

Actually I find weather domain fitting: lightning strikes and rapidly changing atmospheric conditions are pretty much the kind of weather you can expect in a mountainous landscape. As for the big cat, as I see things a dwarf can very well be living outside caves and mountains. Taiga forests are as fine a type of environment for a solitary druidic dwarf as any imo, and the biggest cats of all happen to live in that kind of environment (siberian tigers).

So, while it's true dwarves are traditionally associated with the element of earth and to a lesser extent fire, I don't see that as an absolute limitation for the race. In Golarion you can have survivalist dwarven druids living inside the snowy Taiga of the realm of the Mammoth Lords or the Land of the Linnorm Kings, or you can have weather druids from the peaks of the mindspin mountains or the southern peaks of Casmaron, sky citadels were built even there after all.


Char-Gen addict wrote:

I am just toying with a build and am still not sure whether to take druid or cleric for it. But as it is for a dwarf I thought I'd mention it:

1 Level of Ranger (dungeon rover and trapper archetype)/ 4 levels druid / x levels of sky seeker (sun seeker on d20pfsrd).

You only lose 1 BAB, get a good amount of spellcasting (at level 15 you have 11 levels of druid spellcasting, CL 13 with a trait) and if you take the shapeshifting druid feat you get 2 favored enemies and only need to mix in ranger 2 for a second time wildshape per day. As you eventually get heavy armor prof and the ability to use ranger combat styles in heavy armor the second level fits in well. Even if it makes you lose another level of casting. This will be a weapon melee guy, mainly.

Not really worth it for some games (depending on whether you have orcs, goblins and giants as enemies) but overall a nice build.

Could be good for a Giantslayer game, if I were in you I'd go Druid over Cleric: in my opinion in synergizes better with the dwarven racial traits as low cha is less of a factor unless you go forgemaster.


Looks okay but a bit pushed, I see no reason not to have better strength in exchange of dexterity to be able to contribute to battle when out of spells.

The great thing about druids is that they actually are amazing with heavy armour, if you can afford it. The movement speed penalty is easily compensated by Effortless Armour and wildshape bonus speed.


Secret Wizard wrote:

Looks okay but a bit pushed, I see no reason not to have better strength in exchange of dexterity to be able to contribute to battle when out of spells.

The great thing about druids is that they actually are amazing with heavy armour, if you can afford it. The movement speed penalty is easily compensated by Effortless Armour and wildshape bonus speed.

I suppose the character will eventually be able to craft his own wooden heavy armor but he will be starved for skill points though and you NEED knowledge (nature) and Handle Animal...


Rogar Valertis wrote:

My problem with the animal druids is how they limit the choices avaiable to their specific type of animal. Fast summons are great (and better still with improved initiative, thanks for the heads up) but it's clear that with a full spellcaster build I don't want to change shape all that much considering I dumped str.

For the Beast of the Wild an totem animal druid seems like a mighty fine choice though!

Funny thing about the animal shamans: they don't restrict summoning at all, they just give some bonuses with their preferred types.

What you do lose is some flexibility in wild shape and a delay until 6th level to get it. Which means no Natural Spell until 7th, sadly, though if you're a dwarf getting augment summoning, natural spell and improved init something has to give there.

For a summoner who won't be tearing people's faces off in person there's almost no downside to the animal shamans IMO. I'd call it a slightly worse archetype for your BotW actually.

If you're set against it though look into the menhir savant archetype for the pure spellcaster. The caster level boost will be handy all kinds of ways.


You can just buy dragonscale.

Here is how I'd build:

S14 D12 C12+2 I12 W15+2 CH12-2

For traits, Hedge Magician and Armour Expert or Reactionary.

Eventually move onto Heavy Armour with the feat for proficiency, maybe get Craft Weapons and Armour to make your own dragonscale plate.

Liberty's Edge

Why would you ever put points into cha as a Druid? You use it for 2 things; wild empathy, which is nearly useless if you don't go for fast wild empathy, and handle animal, which is very easy to get to an adequate level with low cost items.


Deighton Thrane wrote:
Why would you ever put points into cha as a Druid? You use it for 2 things; wild empathy, which is nearly useless if you don't go for fast wild empathy, and handle animal, which is very easy to get to an adequate level with low cost items.

Because I don't want to spend my first 3 levels cursing while my animal companion refuses to heed my commands on a substantial basis? :P

Though if I understand things correctly once I get the animal companion to int03 I won't need to use handle animal animal anymore for commands, right?


That's how I understand it. You can dump Charisma if you want.

Scarab Sages

Any way you go, the animal companion is far better than the domain. Even a non optimized companion is better than an extra not usually optimal spell.

You do not need to spend points on your charisma to have an animal companion. Handle animal is ridiculously easy to raise , even for a charisma 5 dwarf who gets left in the barn while his horse is allowed in the common room.

At first level you have

1 rank +3 trained +4 Link -3 charisma +2 Training harness (10gp)= you need a 3 to get the animal to obey you for a trick he knows. You can pick up a cracked ioun stone that will add to a charisma based skill for 200 gp. 210 gold pieces to make up for 4 character points is the best deal in the game.

What you want to do is set your companion to defend, that way in case you fail the roll to get him to attack the target you want, he'll still attack SOMETHING. Upping the critters intelligence is also vital, as it will give him more tricks known and pushing in combat is dicey unless you have a VERY handle animal focused build.

Its for PFS, but handy anyway -the rules on item slots are much more forgiving in non society play.

Animals with a 3 int still required handle animal. They clarified that in the monkey see monkey do blog.

I would not dump int. Druids have a lot of useful skills and good skill points. If you're willing to raise int you can actually branch out and cover another role like scout


Rogar Valertis wrote:
Deighton Thrane wrote:
Why would you ever put points into cha as a Druid? You use it for 2 things; wild empathy, which is nearly useless if you don't go for fast wild empathy, and handle animal, which is very easy to get to an adequate level with low cost items.

Because I don't want to spend my first 3 levels cursing while my animal companion refuses to heed my commands on a substantial basis? :P

Though if I understand things correctly once I get the animal companion to int03 I won't need to use handle animal animal anymore for commands, right?

Your animal companions obeys regardless of your CHA modifier. It's a free action to command it as long as it has the tricks.

Intelligence 3 doesn't mean your companion won't need tricks, it has been stated

Can I improve my companion’s Intelligence to 3 or higher and give it weapon feats?
No. An Intelligence of 3 does not grant animals sentience, the ability to use weapons or tools, speak a language (though they may understand one with a rank in Linguistics; this does not grant literacy), or activate magic devices. Also note that raising an animal companion’s Intelligence to 3 or higher does not eliminate the need to make Handle Animal checks to direct its actions; even semi-intelligent animals still act like animals unless trained not to. An animal with Intelligence of 3 or higher remains a creature of the animal type unless its type is specifically changed by another ability. An animal may learn 3 additional tricks per point of Intelligence above 2.

INT 3 doesn't give you much except roleplaying stuff and maybe using a Ioun Stone.

A druid can handle her animal companion as a free action, or push it as a move action, even if she doesn’t have any ranks in the Handle Animal skill. The druid gains a +4 circumstance bonus on all wild empathy checks and Handle Animal checks made regarding an animal companion.

You don't need CHA to handle your animal companion


But if you take it to INT 3 and give it a rank of linguistics, you don't need handle animal checks. It can understand what you are saying when you speak to it.


Secret Wizard wrote:
But if you take it to INT 3 and give it a rank of linguistics, you don't need handle animal checks. It can understand what you are saying when you speak to it.

No where does it say that INT 3 allows you to ignore tricks or needing a check.

Even the FAQ says that INT 3 doesn't allow that.
He can understand you, yes, but it doesn't say that you can ignore tricks


Letric wrote:
Rogar Valertis wrote:
Deighton Thrane wrote:
Why would you ever put points into cha as a Druid? You use it for 2 things; wild empathy, which is nearly useless if you don't go for fast wild empathy, and handle animal, which is very easy to get to an adequate level with low cost items.

Because I don't want to spend my first 3 levels cursing while my animal companion refuses to heed my commands on a substantial basis? :P

Though if I understand things correctly once I get the animal companion to int03 I won't need to use handle animal animal anymore for commands, right?

Your animal companions obeys regardless of your CHA modifier. It's a free action to command it as long as it has the tricks.

Intelligence 3 doesn't mean your companion won't need tricks, it has been stated

Can I improve my companion’s Intelligence to 3 or higher and give it weapon feats?
No. An Intelligence of 3 does not grant animals sentience, the ability to use weapons or tools, speak a language (though they may understand one with a rank in Linguistics; this does not grant literacy), or activate magic devices. Also note that raising an animal companion’s Intelligence to 3 or higher does not eliminate the need to make Handle Animal checks to direct its actions; even semi-intelligent animals still act like animals unless trained not to. An animal with Intelligence of 3 or higher remains a creature of the animal type unless its type is specifically changed by another ability. An animal may learn 3 additional tricks per point of Intelligence above 2.

INT 3 doesn't give you much except roleplaying stuff and maybe using a Ioun Stone.

A druid can handle her animal companion as a free action, or push it as a move action, even if she doesn’t have any ranks in the Handle Animal skill. The druid gains a +4 circumstance bonus on all wild empathy checks and Handle Animal checks made regarding an animal companion.

You don't need CHA to handle your animal companion

First of all thanks for the quote, even if raising int to 03 is good (because... more tricks!) that won't change the fact I need Handle Animal checks to get the pet to do stuff, I was getting that all wrong, but it makes sense, the fact he understands your language doesn't mean he wants to follow your orders.

That said, let's explain my reasoning: the check DC to execute a trick is 10, so it's easy to accomplish even for a dwarf (also, thanks Flutter for pointing me at training harness, very useful and cheap) but the problem is teaching tricks in the first place: the DC for that is 15 or more often 20, even if you are going for general purpose training, and having low handle animal won't do, as you only get ONE bonus trick you can use without having to go for an handle animal check and training the trick first. Sure, you get more from lvl 03 on but as stated above I'd like to be able to get it learn things before level 3. That said I dumped cha in both the full caster build and in the beast of the wild build (there I used a feat and a trait for better handle animal though), it's only the "middle grounder" build that gets an investment in charisma


Rogar Valertis wrote:

Random thing I've found

http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2ql8b?Druids-Log-Animal-companions


Letric wrote:
Secret Wizard wrote:
But if you take it to INT 3 and give it a rank of linguistics, you don't need handle animal checks. It can understand what you are saying when you speak to it.

No where does it say that INT 3 allows you to ignore tricks or needing a check.

Even the FAQ says that INT 3 doesn't allow that.
He can understand you, yes, but it doesn't say that you can ignore tricks

Sorry, I don't want to derail the thread, but it seems to me like this is a "is a fighter flanked if a rogue and an invisible cleric threaten him, even if the fighter is unaware of the cleric threatening him?".

To me, the purpose of tricks is to convey information to your pet through nonverbal means.

If you can convey that information verbally, they have no purpose, no?

The fact that he understands your language doesn't mean he follows your orders... the fact that it is your ANIMAL COMPANION is what predicates that it follows your orders.

It is assumed you have a bond with this creature and that it will attempt to aid you in any way.

I think it's clear, but that's just me.

Scarab Sages

Secret Wizard wrote:


If you can convey that information verbally, they have no purpose, no?

.

The Handle Animal skill functions similarly no matter how intelligent an animal becomes. A character must still make Handle Animal checks to train his animal and get him to perform the appropriate tasks. A GM should, however, make exceptions in the case of how such an intelligent animal might react in absence of instructions. It might not know to unlock a door to escape a burning building—as that's a fact that's learned over time and experience—but a smart animal might have a better chance of finding a way out.


Also, even with decent CHA you don't gain that much

Take 10 + 4 from druid - 2 CHA +1 Rank + 3 CC = 16

Take 10 + 4 from druid + 0 CHA +1 Rank + 3 CC = 18

If taking 10 the difference is not really high. You can add training harness, and eventually buy something that gives you +X to Handle Animal.

Unless you really wanna put CHA into the character, I don't think it's worth.
You're already a dwarf, and putting 12 CHA to end up with a 10 CHA is costing you 6 points that could be much more useful elsewhere.

2500 buys you a +5 Handle Animal item that you can use only when needed, so no need to take up a slot.

It's not like dumping CHA is fun, it all depends on how your GM/Table runs this. There are several discussion about this, but let's not offtopic.


Secret Wizard wrote:
Letric wrote:
Secret Wizard wrote:
But if you take it to INT 3 and give it a rank of linguistics, you don't need handle animal checks. It can understand what you are saying when you speak to it.

No where does it say that INT 3 allows you to ignore tricks or needing a check.

Even the FAQ says that INT 3 doesn't allow that.
He can understand you, yes, but it doesn't say that you can ignore tricks

Sorry, I don't want to derail the thread, but it seems to me like this is a "is a fighter flanked if a rogue and an invisible cleric threaten him, even if the fighter is unaware of the cleric threatening him?".

To me, the purpose of tricks is to convey information to your pet through nonverbal means.

If you can convey that information verbally, they have no purpose, no?

The fact that he understands your language doesn't mean he follows your orders... the fact that it is your ANIMAL COMPANION is what predicates that it follows your orders.

It is assumed you have a bond with this creature and that it will attempt to aid you in any way.

I think it's clear, but that's just me.

It's logical to think that way but I checked and nowhere it's stated that your animal companion does your bidding if it understands you. It does your bidding as any other animal you have trained IF you pass the relevant Handle Animal checks.

Basically your animal companion is fond of you and might do what you have trained it to do (IF you have trained it, something you need to do with Handle Animal and high DC rolls for a starting character BUT for the single bonus trick it gets at lvl 01, which doesn't require rolls nor training while all the rest does) but if you can't convince it to do it with your abilities it won't obey you.

EDIT: Also PFS related question, how does training your animal companion work in PFS? You need to spend a week of downtime to teach your animal companion a single trick, but scenarios tipically happen in a far shorter span of time than that.

Scarab Sages

Quote:
EDIT: Also PFS related question, how does training your animal companion work in PFS? You need to spend a week of downtime to teach your animal companion a single trick, but scenarios tipically happen in a far shorter span of time than that.

Your animal starts fully trained.

Once in between session per rank in handle animal you can attempt to teach them a trick. You should only need to do this if increasing their intelligence or or handling a replacement. (and it had BETTER be because Mr Bear got smarter *tap tap taps pointy stick*)

This is in the PFS faq, the druids log linked above links to it.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
Rogar Valertis wrote:

-Beast of the wild (20 points build)

Str16 Dex14 Con16 Int09 Wis16 Cha05, animal companion (I'm not fond of switching during play, so depending on the type of campaign big cat or baby Roc), goes Skill Focus-Handle Animal (1st level) then Power Attack (3rd level) and Natural Spell (5th level). Trait of choice is Beast Bond.Skill focus is there to mitigate the drawback of 05 cha when trying to teach the animal companion tricks of pushing it (it's a +9 to handle animal checks with the pet at lvl 1 thanks to the link).

As a variation of Beast of the Wild, a mountain druid with the Plant/Growth sub-domain can make a decent tank: enlarge person as a bonus spell and a domain power, righteous might later on (9th level), plus the ability to eventually (12th level) wild shape into giant form for hours at a time. Don't bother with Skill Focus at 1st level and take Power Attack immediately. Because animal forms will not necessarily be a focus for combat (probably more for mobility and scouting), you may not need Eschew Materials and Natural Spell; in giant form, you retain full casting ability. Pick up Heavy Armor Proficiency (3rd) and wear masterwork stoneplate until you can afford dragonhide full plate (both of which you can move in at 30 ft speed with longstrider).

You lose a bit of action economy, but gain some individual melee damage ability.


Rogar Valertis wrote:
Char-Gen addict wrote:

I am just toying with a build and am still not sure whether to take druid or cleric for it. But as it is for a dwarf I thought I'd mention it:

1 Level of Ranger (dungeon rover and trapper archetype)/ 4 levels druid / x levels of sky seeker (sun seeker on d20pfsrd).

You only lose 1 BAB, get a good amount of spellcasting (at level 15 you have 11 levels of druid spellcasting, CL 13 with a trait) and if you take the shapeshifting druid feat you get 2 favored enemies and only need to mix in ranger 2 for a second time wildshape per day. As you eventually get heavy armor prof and the ability to use ranger combat styles in heavy armor the second level fits in well. Even if it makes you lose another level of casting. This will be a weapon melee guy, mainly.

Not really worth it for some games (depending on whether you have orcs, goblins and giants as enemies) but overall a nice build.

Could be good for a Giantslayer game, if I were in you I'd go Druid over Cleric: in my opinion in synergizes better with the dwarven racial traits as low cha is less of a factor unless you go forgemaster.

I contemplated being a cleric of Apsu for the divine barrier feat that allows me to use my channeling to protect me and my allies from energy damage spells and effects including dragon breath. But the druid would be less MAD.


Given your bonus to wisdom you may want to actually throw caution to the wind (pun!) And drop companion and go with a domain.

You'll really enjoy the extra options and they will be very hard to resist. Plus it won't stop you from changing into something solid yourself.

Is animal companion a great option? No question. But a boost to wisdom makes your saves tougher and makes the alternative a decent option too, albeit less popular.


Rogar Valertis wrote:
Secret Wizard wrote:

Looks okay but a bit pushed, I see no reason not to have better strength in exchange of dexterity to be able to contribute to battle when out of spells.

The great thing about druids is that they actually are amazing with heavy armour, if you can afford it. The movement speed penalty is easily compensated by Effortless Armour and wildshape bonus speed.

I suppose the character will eventually be able to craft his own wooden heavy armor but he will be starved for skill points though and you NEED knowledge (nature) and Handle Animal...

why wooden armor you could use dragon scales or work with your dm to find out what other animal hides you could use to make heavy armor


Cavall wrote:

Given your bonus to wisdom you may want to actually throw caution to the wind (pun!) And drop companion and go with a domain.

You'll really enjoy the extra options and they will be very hard to resist. Plus it won't stop you from changing into something solid yourself.

Is animal companion a great option? No question. But a boost to wisdom makes your saves tougher and makes the alternative a decent option too, albeit less popular.

Agreed. I actually think the "full caster option" to be more solid overall, albeit probably less funny.

Domain means 9 spells more, all quite powerful. The companion gives you a lot more options in terms of team role (you can be a damage dealer and/or a decent tank besides being able to cast) but the full spellcaster is just more specialized and extremely powerful at what he does (terrain control/blasting/giving the team utility). Btw as someone noted, the Menhir Savant is quite sweet as an archetype for a dwarven druid fullcaster and I love the thematic connection too.


With the storm druid you even get a second domain and domain casting for it, later.


It's been mentioned already but just thought I'd say I loved the Shapeshifting Hunter feat with a single level dip into Ranger when I was playing my dwarven druid. I coupled it with the world walker druid archetype to keep ranger's favoured terrains as well as favoured enemies. My guy was a middle grounder as you called it, but I found the favoured enemy bonuses really helped with the transition from caster to melee when they kicked in.

*Edit* Stats were, I think, 14 12 16 12 18 5, with dreams of eventual heavy armour.


Rashagar wrote:

It's been mentioned already but just thought I'd say I loved the Shapeshifting Hunter feat with a single level dip into Ranger when I was playing my dwarven druid. I coupled it with the world walker druid archetype to keep ranger's favoured terrains as well as favoured enemies. My guy was a middle grounder as you called it, but I found the favoured enemy bonuses really helped with the transition from caster to melee when they kicked in.

*Edit* Stats were, I think, 14 12 16 12 18 5, with dreams of eventual heavy armour.

I'm playing something similar right now, but I'm using the Goliath Druid archetype and mostly focusing on melee despite being a decent caster. It's a pretty potent combo... And just for fun I'm also using the magus variant multi-class for arcane pool fun and spellstrike. You lose a bunch of feats, but as long as you focus on shapeshifting hunter and power attack you'll do just fine. And I recommend heavy armor proficiency plus dragonscale plate.

Silver Crusade

Rogar Valertis wrote:
Deighton Thrane wrote:
Why would you ever put points into cha as a Druid? You use it for 2 things; wild empathy, which is nearly useless if you don't go for fast wild empathy, and handle animal, which is very easy to get to an adequate level with low cost items.

Because I don't want to spend my first 3 levels cursing while my animal companion refuses to heed my commands on a substantial basis? :P

Though if I understand things correctly once I get the animal companion to int03 I won't need to use handle animal animal anymore for commands, right?

You only need to use Handle Animal when 'pushing' your companion to do something it's unfamiliar with, or uncomfortable doing. Anything you already have a trick for (and you'll have a bunch right from the start) is automatic.


darrenan wrote:
Rogar Valertis wrote:
Deighton Thrane wrote:
Why would you ever put points into cha as a Druid? You use it for 2 things; wild empathy, which is nearly useless if you don't go for fast wild empathy, and handle animal, which is very easy to get to an adequate level with low cost items.

Because I don't want to spend my first 3 levels cursing while my animal companion refuses to heed my commands on a substantial basis? :P

Though if I understand things correctly once I get the animal companion to int03 I won't need to use handle animal animal anymore for commands, right?

You only need to use Handle Animal when 'pushing' your companion to do something it's unfamiliar with, or uncomfortable doing. Anything you already have a trick for (and you'll have a bunch right from the start) is automatic.

Are you sure?

Because as I read the rules your animal companion starts with exactly ONE trick he knows and you can use without teaching it first and without rolling. Otherwise it knows NO TRICKS unless you spend the time to teach him first (1 week). And of course, you also need to suceed in an handle animal check with CD 15 or 20, depending on the trick.
Once you have teached the trick, when you want your animal companion to use it you still need to roll handle animal, this time at CD 10. You only push your animal (CD 25) when you want it to do a trick he's PHISICALLY CAPABLE of accomplishing but you haven't teached it yet.

That's how I read the rules, but if I'm wrong please point me to where it says otherwise. Thanks!


Yes, getting your AC to use a trick is a DC 10 handle animal check. You get +4 to that check as a druid because of the AC's link ability but with a cha of 10, 1 rank, favoured class bonus and the circumstance bonus you are "only" at: +8 so you COULD fail the roll. If your cha is below 10 it gets worse.
My dwarven hunter with a cha of 6 could have had a hard time if the GM hadn't handwaved it (I did not ask for that handwavium)

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