Question about the spirit dancer medium spells?

[Azouth]

I get that you only get spirit stuff when you spirit dance but what about spell.

No spirit (or any but archmage and hierophant) is normal spells.

So lets say I cast 1 first level spell at 4th and don't have any bonus spell. This is all my spell for the day.

Now, I use spirit dance to get the archmage how many spell can I cast?
Per the book as a mesmerist is 1st 3, 2nd 1.

Would I have 2 first left or 3?
What if I cast as the archmage first would I have any spell normally?
Would the spell cast as a archmage be off different slots then a hierophant?

[Azouth]

Anyone?

[Azouth]

Really no one?

[Chess Pwn]

I'd rule saying you cast a lv1 spell, so substract that from the number of spells you can cast. but it is a very strange, and I believe never encountered till now, problem

[Archaeik]

I'm not remembering specifically which ability, but there seems to be a(t least one) FAQ related to temporary gain of limited resources that suggests they stay expended across multiple acquisitions...

As such, you shouldn't truly have 2(or more) discrete pools of spells, but simply a single one that is expanded during a dance selecting those spirits.

If you use a Medium slot first, you should be down one for the day.

If you use an Archmage/Hierophant slot first, I'm less sure; probably expect table variation unless someone can find a relevant developer comment. (I'd be inclined to let you select the most advantageous order of depletion)

Edit: This is likely the one I'm thinking of

Given that its scope doesn't actually cover your question, I'm going to FAQ it since the answer may end up being more generous than I expect.

Edit2: This suggests you track them separately, but I'm still fairly skeptical, they intend you to double up+ on spells.

Spirit Dancer wrote:

A spirit dancer continues to track daily uses of abilities from each of his spirits even while he is not in a spirit dance.

[Azouth]

Thanks for reply.

[cavernshark]

Archaeik wrote:

I'm not remembering specifically which ability, but there seems to be a(t least one) FAQ related to temporary gain of limited resources that suggests they stay expended across multiple acquisitions...

As such, you shouldn't truly have 2(or more) discrete pools of spells, but simply a single one that is expanded during a dance selecting those spirits.

If you use a Medium slot first, you should be down one for the day.

If you use an Archmage/Hierophant slot first, I'm less sure; probably expect table variation unless someone can find a relevant developer comment. (I'd be inclined to let you select the most advantageous order of depletion)

Edit: This is likely the one I'm thinking of

Given that its scope doesn't actually cover your question, I'm going to FAQ it since the answer may end up being more generous than I expect.

Edit2: This suggests you track them separately, but I'm still fairly skeptical, they intend you to double up+ on spells.

Spirit Dancer wrote:

A spirit dancer continues to track daily uses of abilities from each of his spirits even while he is not in a spirit dance.

I think they are a single pool based on the wording of the Divine Surge power under the Hierophant:

Divine Surge wrote:

This power functions as the archmage arcana spirit power, except that you add spells from the cleric/oracle list instead of the sorcerer/wizard list (these spells count as divine), and you need a divine focus if the spell requires one.

Since they function as the same power, it stands to reason this falls under the Temporary abilities gained FAQ you quoted and it's a shared pool of spell power with two different spells known lists.

It would still leave some ambiguity as to whether the spells spent out of either Hierophant or Archmage count against the same pool. My inclination is that it wouldn't be terribly overpowering if they were tracked separately. Then you're just a 6th level spell caster with a very small number of bonus low level spells per day and a much smaller spells known list. But it's probably far more likely that a spell spent out of either caster spirit is debited against the caster spirits' daily pool.

[Archaeik]

"functions as" does not make it the same power, it only makes them work similarly. Plus the only reason it uses that language is to avoid reprinting the same block of text that was used before.

The RAW argument I would make against stacking is that "spells" is a base ability of the Medium, which is modified by either of these spirits, but it can just as easily be argued that it is replaced, which leads to having access to a wider selection of slots.

Doubling up on spell slots is much more powerful than you're giving it credit for.

[cavernshark]

Archaeik wrote:

"functions as" does not make it the same power, it only makes them work similarly. Plus the only reason it uses that language is to avoid reprinting the same block of text that was used before.

The RAW argument I would make against stacking is that "spells" is a base ability of the Medium, which is modified by either of these spirits, but it can just as easily be argued that it is replaced, which leads to having access to a wider selection of slots.

Doubling up on spell slots is much more powerful than you're giving it credit for.

Err, looking back at what I said, I can see how you may have thought I meant that. But I do agree, at minimum, the two 6th level casting pools are one and the same. Casting a spell from one would deplete both.

I guess where I was still ambiguous was whether the Medium's base spells also overlap with the Hierophant/Archmage -- that was the point I was making in that if those two pools are counted separately, it's only 1 additional first level spell over the base 6th level casting at when the Medium is at level 4, two over when it's 5, etc.

[Archaeik]

No, in this context, "functions as" means "works the same" not "is interchangeable", it is a separate pool if the Spells class feature is replaced instead of modified.