Kineticist Multiclass?


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Is there any reasonable class to multi or dip into for a Kineticist? I'm not really interested in much after 12th level, and am wondering if I should stick with it, or branch out. Guessing there are no Prestige Classes for a Kineticist. :/


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It's not really optimal, but there is some interesting synergy between the kineticist and the Scarred Witch Doctor.

Oh wait...


I assume this was a joke? o.O


Sphynx wrote:
I assume this was a joke? o.O

Scarred Witch Doctor just got nerfed from being a con caster and is now Int based like a normal witch.


Hmmm... Dipping into Barbarian might be good for the Rage? Not sure if the talents would qualify for requiring concentration or effort. :/ Maybe an Urban Barbarian?

Wizard for a single level to get Mage Armour/Shield?


If you want Mage Armour/Shield, just put a pile of points into UMD. Don't cost yourself a level on something that trivial.


Rowe wrote:
Sphynx wrote:
I assume this was a joke? o.O
Scarred Witch Doctor just got nerfed from being a con caster and is now Int based like a normal witch.

Because every one was playing a scarred witch doctor and abusing it.


Rogar Stonebow wrote:
Rowe wrote:
Sphynx wrote:
I assume this was a joke? o.O
Scarred Witch Doctor just got nerfed from being a con caster and is now Int based like a normal witch.
Because every one was playing a scarred witch doctor and abusing it.

Implying having 22 intelligence at level 1 is somehow less open to abuse. Scarred Witch Doctor was pretty much a bleh archetype that had one unique thing. Now it is no longer unique but instead potentially more powerful.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
Sphynx wrote:
Is there any reasonable class to multi or dip into for a Kineticist? I'm not really interested in much after 12th level, and am wondering if I should stick with it, or branch out.

Dipping a level in snakebite striker brawler gives +1d6 Sneak Attack, plus Brawler's Cunning (count as 13 Int for feat requirements) and Unarmed Strike, without penalizing BAB.

A blaster-style kineticist might find 1-3 levels of sniper slayer (or sniper rogue) useful.

Sphynx wrote:
Guessing there are no Prestige Classes for a Kineticist. :/

Not yet...


Dragonchess Player wrote:
Sphynx wrote:
Guessing there are no Prestige Classes for a Kineticist. :/
Not yet...

Did Occult Adventurers include any prestige classes at all or just none in particular for Kineticist? I'd be assuming none at all due to Paizo's distaste for them.


chaoseffect wrote:
Dragonchess Player wrote:
Sphynx wrote:
Guessing there are no Prestige Classes for a Kineticist. :/
Not yet...
Did Occult Adventurers include any prestige classes at all or just none in particular for Kineticist? I'd be assuming none at all due to Paizo's distaste for them.

None.


chaoseffect wrote:
Did Occult Adventurers include any prestige classes at all or just none in particular for Kineticist? I'd be assuming none at all due to Paizo's distaste for them.

There aren't PrCs in the book, but there may be in some future splatbook. I can see some occult cabal membership for example


Sphynx wrote:
Guessing there are no Prestige Classes for a Kineticist. :/

There is the Evangelist PRC ;)


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
chaoseffect wrote:
Dragonchess Player wrote:
Sphynx wrote:
Guessing there are no Prestige Classes for a Kineticist. :/
Not yet...
Did Occult Adventurers include any prestige classes at all or just none in particular for Kineticist? I'd be assuming none at all due to Paizo's distaste for them.

It's not so much a distaste, but a design/publication philosophy: prestige classes are more tied to the setting by nature (cultural background, organizations, etc.), so they appear mostly in the Campaign Setting and Player Companion lines (and there have been quite a few published). The RPG line is supposed to be mainly setting neutral.


The Sniper options might be interesting, but I think full Kineticist is really the way to go. The options you can open up with Expanded Element is really amazing. You can have (somewhat) unlimited & scaling healing, flying at will... well there are just so many options that you can choose from that I, personally, wouldn't consider multi-classing.

Silver Crusade

What would the evangelist's spiritual form would be for a Kineticist?

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16

Paizo tends to avoid making prestige classes unless for NPCs because they're kind of a deadend design space.


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I still don't see them being any more deadend than various archetypes.

I mean they're sorta just generic archetypes. Its not like they're building archetypes from archetypes.

Though I am totally fine with not making any,I love prestige classes but its perfectly fine if Paizo doesn't enjoy them. I think its a bit of a waste of small specific things to build, but considering how much page costs are I totally get them not doing them in favor of more archetypes that are more popular.

THough I think it's a bit of a waste, since they could make the weird stuff small prestiges rather than whole classes (alchemical items, poisons (daggermark isn't that good), a better version of pathfinder chronicler)

===============
But onto the multiclass bit

I have a few friends who are taking the rogue VMC, and eventually leaving kin for slayer.
Its honestly not stronger than main kin. but I guess they wanted the flavor.

I haven't access to the new versions of the class so I can't really offer mor solid advice on it till I am able to


A dip into rogue gives plenty of class skills, gives 1d6 sneak attack and trapfinding (useful for aetherkineticists who want to disable traps from a distance).

A dip into monk lets you do the unarmored thing. This can be thematic and is better than the elemental ascetic in many cases.

On the other hand, I think that it's usually better the other way around. Taking most classes would be enhanced with a touch of kineticist.


Maybe there'll be a prestige class in the Occult splatbook for Kineticists who worship the Elemental Lords.


Gunslinger(Pistolero or bolt ace would probably be best) could be cool, still get touch attacks, you can add your dex to damage and you can get conductive ammo, on top of the synergy with the magnetic infusion. If Advanced firearms come to the table then not only can you get touch attacks at pretty solid range the double barrel shotgun is pretty cool to apply blasts too.

The only down side really is only energy blasts can be added to the ammo, so that limits your simple blasts by a decent amount and leaves only the Blue flame and force blasts for composite (unless you can argue that plasma should be energy too)


Getting in to the crazy grey area of when SLAs do or do not count as spells, some sorcerer arcana might affect blasts (which do gain their elements as descriptors). So cross-blooded sorcerer becomes an interesting dip for a level.

Silver Crusade

Cyrocloud2 wrote:

Gunslinger(Pistolero or bolt ace would probably be best) could be cool, still get touch attacks, you can add your dex to damage and you can get conductive ammo, on top of the synergy with the magnetic infusion. If Advanced firearms come to the table then not only can you get touch attacks at pretty solid range the double barrel shotgun is pretty cool to apply blasts too.

The only down side really is only energy blasts can be added to the ammo, so that limits your simple blasts by a decent amount and leaves only the Blue flame and force blasts for composite (unless you can argue that plasma should be energy too)

How do these mix?


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

A Kineticist (especially the release version since they obliterated Kinetic/Elemental form) is so far below the curve that dipping is pretty much adding another nail to the coffin.

Keep in mind the Kineticist gains powers (spells) at the same progression as a spontaneous caster so you are already 1 level behind, dipping drops you even further.

Unless there's some wacky combo I cannot think of a single instance where you'd be better off...except maybe:

Kin1/Wizard11 or Kin1/Cleric1.

Silver Crusade

I'm confused on how Kin can multiclass with anything and directly boost it either way. All of its powers seem completely self-contained and unable to branch out and connect with other class features and abilities.


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Problem with kinteticist is they limit you hard as its very tied to class level.

"Kinetic blasts count as a type of weapon for the purpose of feats such as Weapon Focus."
Only for feats so other class features that would let you work with a specific weapon type are out.

Flurry of blasts is based on level to determine how many blasts you attack with.

BUUUUT.

Kinetic blade...
"You can use this form infusion once as part of an attack action, a charge action, or a full-attack action in order to make melee attacks with your kinetic blade. Since it’s part of another action (and isn’t an action itself), using this wild talent doesn’t provoke any additional attacks of opportunity. The kinetic blade deals your kinetic blast damage on each hit (applying any modifiers to your kinetic blast’s damage as normal, but not your Strength modifier)."

So we get BAB + its a light/one handed melee weapon (oh hey now we got some class features that latch onto that).

"You create a non-reach, light or one-handed weapon in your hand formed of pure energy or elemental matter."

Oh hey its finessable if you want as well because we can just list it as a light weapon.

Constitution for damage mod makes it a prime bloodrager or barbarian (either con damage bonus or just the static melee damage bonus from unchanied). Throw raging brutality to add your constitution a second time as a swift action. And you're all constitution so spending rounds of rage will matter less.

Now this is where it gets fun:

"The weapon deals the same damage type that your kinetic blast deals, and it interacts with Armor Class and spell resistance as normal for a blast of its type."

Congratulations, build it around energy blasts you'll only deal 1/2 con damage (and it sounds like spell resistance can get in the way) but you're a melee who now focuses on touch attacks for full rounds. Raging brutality is now even more of your best friend because you can get that extra modified damage back.

Side note: Kinetic Anhilator lets you do this as well without having to subject yourself to burn, use your level as BAB, as well as do 1-1/2 con mod if you don't use more than 1 (if you do you can twf this have to wait untl 6th level before the class allows you this). Downside is the damage dice is capped at 1d6 and you can't use energy blasts so no touch AC fun. Still has an interesting amount of possibilities.

Edit: Basically this is all to state kinetic blade will hault the damage progression for multi-classing. But as long as you can get stuff that targets light/1h weapons and/or melee weapons for bonuses other classes can slip in for boosting it. In just about every case i would suggest a Full-BAB class just to get the most out of this because if you're not doing Elemental Annihilator you'll want to do as many touch attack melee attacks as you can.

Edit2: I will mention barbarian/bloodrager seems like the most optimal options as they will give you the most static damage boost for this. Otherwise most other choices will leave you weaker than a normal kineticist due to how quickly the blasts scale. (1d6 + 1d6/2 levels after 1st meaning anywhere between 1d6 and 10d6 at max) or composite blasts (maxing out at 20d6). So you'll likley want to strike a happy medium between getting as many full round attacks +static boosts and as many die of damage you can between the barbarian's levels and the kineticist's levels.


Odd... I thought the only Rage that the Blade might work with would be Urban. Rage doesn't let you use an "ability that requires patience or concentration", so you'd think using it with Kinetic Blade would be out... I mean, having to summon it afresh every turn...


Sphynx wrote:
Odd... I thought the only Rage that the Blade might work with would be Urban. Rage doesn't let you use an "ability that requires patience or concentration", so you'd think using it with Kinetic Blade would be out... I mean, having to summon it afresh every turn...

I think this would be a DM discretion thing. by default it looks to me like it says nothing about needing to concrete as you're not a caster, it just sounds like something you innately do, as it has no real components to it like a spell (as spells can require concentration). Like this isn't really subject to you having a hard time doing because you can't concentrate due to various condition (such as taking damage, bad conditions, ect..), you just suddenly have X/Y element rushing towards the enemy's face.

Not to mention it doesn't seem to be innately overpowered so i don't see a real problem with it, and seems pretty thematically appropriate as you're draining yourself physically (burn nonleathal damage) to enhance your ability in combat.


It's an (Sp), don't they require Concentration to use?


spell like abilities do need concentration so rage doesn't work


Sphynx wrote:
It's an (Sp), don't they require Concentration to use?

Yeah. I'm not certain thought with kinetic blade

"You can use this form infusion once as part of an attack action,
a charge action, or a full-attack action in order to make melee
attacks with your kinetic blade. Since it’s part of another action
(and isn’t an action itself), using this wild talent doesn’t provoke
any additional attacks of opportunity."

Infusions are a "Su" and this infusion is done as part of an attack action which would suggest you're almost bypassing the whole spell-like ability thing.


There's a few ways to cast and rage. Mad Magic feat on a Bloodrager is my favorite.


Lanitril wrote:
There's a few ways to cast and rage. Mad Magic feat on a Bloodrager is my favorite.

That would make bloodrager a front-runner for this, that way you're not burning extra rage power feats or rage powers on moment of clarity BS.

That said i'm still curious if its still a (Sp) if you're using the kinetic blade infusion as thats a (Su) that works as part of attacking.


ranmyaku262 wrote:
Sphynx wrote:
It's an (Sp), don't they require Concentration to use?

Yeah. I'm not certain thought with kinetic blade

"You can use this form infusion once as part of an attack action,
a charge action, or a full-attack action in order to make melee
attacks with your kinetic blade. Since it’s part of another action
(and isn’t an action itself), using this wild talent doesn’t provoke
any additional attacks of opportunity."

Infusions are a "Su" and this infusion is done as part of an attack action which would suggest you're almost bypassing the whole spell-like ability thing.

Su is Supernatural and is completely different from Sp (Spell-like Ability). Supernatural doesn't require concentration.


chaoseffect wrote:
ranmyaku262 wrote:
Sphynx wrote:
It's an (Sp), don't they require Concentration to use?

Yeah. I'm not certain thought with kinetic blade

"You can use this form infusion once as part of an attack action,
a charge action, or a full-attack action in order to make melee
attacks with your kinetic blade. Since it’s part of another action
(and isn’t an action itself), using this wild talent doesn’t provoke
any additional attacks of opportunity."

Infusions are a "Su" and this infusion is done as part of an attack action which would suggest you're almost bypassing the whole spell-like ability thing.

Su is Supernatural and is completely different from Sp (Spell-like Ability). Supernatural doesn't require concentration.

The reason i question it is because of this line

"By using infusions along with her kinetic blasts, a kineticist can alter her kinetic blasts to suit her needs"
&
"Some infusions change the action required to activate a kinetic blast or entirely transform the kinetic blast’s normal effects."
make me wonder if you're not simultaneously using a Sp & Su or if because of how its worded you're replacing the normal Sp with a Su.


The Infusion is an (Su) to the Kinetic Blast (Sp). They can't both be SPs, and you are "casting" a Kinetic Blast in a manner that it forms into a weapon. It's still an (Sp).


There's also of course the issue of your 1d6 weapon being (Sp)...


Sphynx wrote:
The Infusion is an (Su) to the Kinetic Blast (Sp). They can't both be SPs, and you are "casting" a Kinetic Blast in a manner that it forms into a weapon. It's still an (Sp).

Alright, Mad magic feat it is then.


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Rogar Stonebow wrote:
Rowe wrote:
Sphynx wrote:
I assume this was a joke? o.O
Scarred Witch Doctor just got nerfed from being a con caster and is now Int based like a normal witch.
Because every one was playing a scarred witch doctor and abusing it.

You're kidding right? Scarred Witch Doctor is now even more powerful.

Lantern Lodge

Anyone looked at the Aetheric blast? Text (Emphasis Added):

Quote:


You throw a nearby unattended object at a single foe as a ranged attack. The object must weigh no more than 5 pounds per kineticist level you possess. If the attack hits, the target and the thrown object each take the blast’s damage. Since the object is enfolded in strands of aether, even if you use this power on a magic weapon or other unusual object, the attack doesn’t use any of the magic weapon’s bonuses or effects; it simply deals your blast damage. Alternatively, you can loosen the strands of aether in order to deal damage to both the object and the target as though you had thrown the object yourself (instead of dealing your normal blast damage). You substitute your Constitution modifier for your Strength modifier if throwing the object would have added your Strength modifier on the damage roll, and you don’t take the –4 penalty on the attack roll for throwing an object that wasn’t designed to be thrown. In this case, the object’s special effects apply (including effects from its materials), and if the object is a weapon, you must be proficient with it and able to wield it with one hand; otherwise, the item deals damage as a one-handed improvised weapon for a creature of your size.

I think that a one level dip into Telekineticist could be very interesting for an Alchemist. Pick up extended range and suddenly you can 'throw' your bombs 120 feet without worrying about range increments. There's some fuzziness there (like whether or not the 'special effects' of the bomb include making it a touch attack. Free at-will mage hand is just a bonus.


An interesting idea but I don't think it works. Bombs are made ready to go as part of the standard action used to throw them (barring Fast Bombs) and become inert if not used in that same round. Aetheric Blast also looks to be a standard, which would mean that you would have to standard action prep your Bomb and then standard action Aetheric Blast it away in the same round if you wanted the bomb to function. I'm only going by what was posted as I've never actually read the class itself so perhaps I'm missing something.

Lantern Lodge

You're right. I've never played an alchemist and I've never thoroughly read the rules - my bad. It was a fun idea, but it won't work, will it? Too bad, I was having dreams of a Bazooka build.

Silver Crusade

Genuine wrote:
You're right. I've never played an alchemist and I've never thoroughly read the rules - my bad. It was a fun idea, but it won't work, will it? Too bad, I was having dreams of a Bazooka build.

An alchemist-telekineticist team combo though.

OR a familiar holding a charge of Detonate!!! Launch Fluffy!!!!


Still wouldn't work, for the same reason using alchemists fire with telekinetic blast doesn't do anything aside from a standard telekinetic blast.

Lantern Lodge

Milo v3 wrote:
Still wouldn't work, for the same reason using alchemists fire with telekinetic blast doesn't do anything aside from a standard telekinetic blast.

And why not? You couldn't in the playtest, sure. But now the telekineticist can use his blast to function as though he was throwing the item instead using a normal blast. Why not alchemical fire? I also imagine that telekineticists will regularly carry around bandoliers of daggers and shurikens with various materials and magics to help deal with DR.


Genuine wrote:
Milo v3 wrote:
Still wouldn't work, for the same reason using alchemists fire with telekinetic blast doesn't do anything aside from a standard telekinetic blast.
And why not? You couldn't in the playtest, sure. But now the telekineticist can use his blast to function as though he was throwing the item instead using a normal blast. Why not alchemical fire? I also imagine that telekineticists will regularly carry around bandoliers of daggers and shurikens with various materials and magics to help deal with DR.

Or +1 (Lesser) Designating shuriken. Bam!


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Genuine wrote:
Milo v3 wrote:
Still wouldn't work, for the same reason using alchemists fire with telekinetic blast doesn't do anything aside from a standard telekinetic blast.
And why not? You couldn't in the playtest, sure. But now the telekineticist can use his blast to function as though he was throwing the item instead using a normal blast. Why not alchemical fire? I also imagine that telekineticists will regularly carry around bandoliers of daggers and shurikens with various materials and magics to help deal with DR.

You could, but then you'd just get Alchemist Fire damage from it, and for Shurikens you would get Shuriken+Con.

You wouldn't add your blast damage to those attacks.


TK Blast is most dangerously used with weapons that can still do damage after they hit, like grenades. Move action light + standard action TK Blast and now your enemy has taken your blast damage and needs to move within 1d3 rounds or get exploded on too.

Lantern Lodge

Melkiador wrote:
TK Blast is most dangerously used with weapons that can still do damage after they hit, like grenades. Move action light + standard action TK Blast and now your enemy has taken your blast damage and needs to move within 1d3 rounds or get exploded on too.

Ooh, like all those fireworks you get in the goblin scenarios. I wonder if you could deliver contact or inhaled poisons too.


How about a dip into cleric? I'm considering doing that so my kineticist can use curing and restoring wands (I think I'm right about how that works). He'll be doing a lot of the healing for the party.

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