LazarX |
Ashiel |
2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Ashiel wrote:Now you have proper reasons to shape your head a la Geiger! Presumably this is one of the promised horror touches to the work.
Did you see the skull shaping feats by any chance which pretty much complement this?
Mostly just been skimming the book (and shaking my head with dismay) with some friends of mine but when we came across this little piece we were like "omg, your brain now changes the shape of your head as you gain levels". It's not even a special mechanic it's just everyone.
Like a 1st level Fighter's head is normal. A 20th level fighter's head has been so contorted by his brain that it's almost impossible for low level people to make heads or tails of it with their skill. Not because of some sort of mind reading, no, actually your head changing shapes.
It was just too hilarious not to post about.
Terminalmancer |
2 people marked this as a favorite. |
The sad part is that this isn't something Paizo just made up, it is a belief that was once considered scientific fact. It's not normally the kind of thing I want in my fantasy game, but Occult Adventures pulls from a lot of 17th and 18th century quackery, so it's... in scope? Sort of?
Not that it's something I'd use in my games...
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phrenology
LazarX |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
The sad part is that this isn't something Paizo just made up, it is a belief that was once considered scientific fact. It's not normally the kind of thing I want in my fantasy game, but Occult Adventures pulls from a lot of 17th and 18th century quackery, so it's... in scope? Sort of?
Do you look at alchemy in the same way? If not, aren't you setting a bit of a double standard? Alchemy was as much pseudo science as phrenology and Lysenko.
Ashiel |
I think you're missing the point. The point isn't that the skill exists, it's that it literally says that your brain changes the shape of your skull and that it's keyed to your level in a way that your skull becomes more and more warped and difficult to fathom as your level increases.
Hence the joke picture where at 1st level the skull looks normal and at 20th level it looks like a xenomorph. :P
Imbicatus |
“Of course you’d say that, you have the brainpan of stage coach tilter.” – C.M. BurnsThe sad part is that this isn't something Paizo just made up, it is a belief that was once considered scientific fact. It's not normally the kind of thing I want in my fantasy game, but Occult Adventures pulls from a lot of 17th and 18th century quackery, so it's... in scope? Sort of?
Not that it's something I'd use in my games...
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phrenology
Ventnor |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Terminalmancer wrote:Do you look at alchemy in the same way? If not, aren't you setting a bit of a double standard? Alchemy was as much pseudo science as phrenology and Lysenko.The sad part is that this isn't something Paizo just made up, it is a belief that was once considered scientific fact. It's not normally the kind of thing I want in my fantasy game, but Occult Adventures pulls from a lot of 17th and 18th century quackery, so it's... in scope? Sort of?
Except phrenology was used to justify horrible racist and sexist philosophies.
Ashiel |
Actually, it doesn't say it becomes more complex. It says it gets harder to determine. That could indicate that it gets smoother and *less* distinct.
In any case your skull is actively changing its physical shape because you're gaining character levels.
I think we should just assume it's becoming diamond-like to help you survive swan-diving into concrete from the edge of the atmosphere at mid-high levels.
LazarX |
LazarX wrote:Except phrenology was used to justify horrible racist and sexist philosophies.Terminalmancer wrote:Do you look at alchemy in the same way? If not, aren't you setting a bit of a double standard? Alchemy was as much pseudo science as phrenology and Lysenko.The sad part is that this isn't something Paizo just made up, it is a belief that was once considered scientific fact. It's not normally the kind of thing I want in my fantasy game, but Occult Adventures pulls from a lot of 17th and 18th century quackery, so it's... in scope? Sort of?
True, but irrelevant. Alchemy no doubt, had plenty of abuses and scams of it's own.
Ventnor |
Ventnor wrote:True, but irrelevant. Alchemy no doubt, had plenty of abuses and scams of it's own.LazarX wrote:Except phrenology was used to justify horrible racist and sexist philosophies.Terminalmancer wrote:Do you look at alchemy in the same way? If not, aren't you setting a bit of a double standard? Alchemy was as much pseudo science as phrenology and Lysenko.The sad part is that this isn't something Paizo just made up, it is a belief that was once considered scientific fact. It's not normally the kind of thing I want in my fantasy game, but Occult Adventures pulls from a lot of 17th and 18th century quackery, so it's... in scope? Sort of?
I'll admit that as a Psych major I have a personal dislike of the whole subject.
psyrus |
An interesting fact: Hydrocephalic brains are compressed, but most of these persons have no signs of mental problems. Which may lead to the morbid questions;
1. What if the compression was done differently to make the brain smaller without impairing function?
2. How small could a human brain safely get?
Could future genetic engineers make humans who are far smaller than the recent archaeological "Hobbit" find? Combining genetic engineering and manipulated diseases to make... living dolls?
Truly, horrific!
Snorb |
5 people marked this as a favorite. |
Freddy the Fighter: So, how does it look, Doc?
Katelyn the Kineticist: (phrenology) Well, you're a male half-orc, about nineteen years old... You seem like a pretty decent person, willing to do what it takes for you and your girlfriend to live decent lives. I think you're pretty good at being a fighter. It's hard to tell because you have all these funny lumps on your head.
Freddy: Isn't that because my brain helps shape my skull?
Rita the Rogue: No, Fred, it's because you don't wear a helmet. Ever.
Kalindlara Contributor |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
More importantly, did they include retrophrenology?
I just reread Men at Arms. I was coming in here to post the same thing...
FLite |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
More importantly, did they include retrophrenology?
I still want to know if there is an occult class that will let me play a retro-phrenologist. Preferably a half-orc.
If not, I will just have to play a half orc with a warhammer who insists he is a retro-phrenologist.
Manwolf |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
FLite wrote:More importantly, did they include retrophrenology?I just reread Men at Arms. I was coming in here to post the same thing...
That was one of my favorite parts of that book. So sad that he has left us, but his final Discworld book comes to the U.S. on September 1st.
Idle Champion |
Not the most... practical application for K(Arcana), is it?
Situation 1:
Paul the Phrenologist: Allow me to study the subject.
Brian the Bard: You mean that guy over there - the young adult half-elf with the spell component pouch, the pet toad, the scroll case, and the festoon of rods and wands?
Paul: Male half-elf, thirty years old... decent fellow. I can't quite tell his avenue of training, his modus operandi so to speak.
Brian: Stop kneading the wizard's scalp, Paul. It's getting weird.
Situation 2:
Paul the Phrenologist: Ahh, yes. Before his corpse was reanimated by the dark arts, this zombie was a human in his early forties, by-the-book customer, probably an army recruiter or drill sergeant by these five levels of Warrior. Oh dear, my hands are filthy.
Situation 3:
Paul the Phrenologist: By the contours of your cranium, I have determined that you, Brian, are a twenty-year old human male and a Chaotic Good seventh-level Bard.
Brian's Player: Was that meant to be in character? 'Cause it sounded weird... and pointless.
Besides - knowing class levels in-game bugs me... I prefer the 'Symbol of Death' description where class level is an abstract.
Kalindlara Contributor |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Well, the first question that comes to mind is, is it fooled by disguises? Because that would be one way to sort out who is the doppleganger.
Actually, this raises another question. Could a shapeshifter trained in the appropriate skill for phrenology shape their skull so that it "lies"?
Or would doing so actually retrophrenologize them?
Strange thoughts. ^_^
I'm Hiding In Your Closet |
By chance, did anyone get a look at the Elongated Cranium feat?
Yes, I'm not sure how I feel about it all, but I can't help but find it hilarious that you can turn yourself into a Conehead now (or a Metalunan, even).
Apparently people with conical heads are very likable.
It conveys a sense of authority, I guess. Normally, somebody'd be standing at equal height to you, but now when they try to look you in the eye, their attention is instead drawn upward and their brainstem's like "Oooooooooooo taaaaaaaaall....."
Spook205 |
Ventnor wrote:Yes, I'm not sure how I feel about it all, but I can't help but find it hilarious that you can turn yourself into a Conehead now (or a Metalunan, even).By chance, did anyone get a look at the Elongated Cranium feat?
May your forehead grow like the mighty oak.
I need to pick up a copy of Occult Adventures, but the more I hear about it, the more I'm inclined to just keep my third party psionics handbook.
Luthorne |
2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I'm pretty sure the changes are so minor that it's impossible to detect any difference unless you're specifcally trained in Phrenology. Hence it being an Occult skill unlock, not just something everyone can do by default.
Yeah, you need to be sensitive to psychic phenomena (whether via feat or psychic spellcasting) before you can start examining skulls...makes me wonder if there isn't a little object reading involved somehow.
Regardless, it's pretty amusing, and could lead to some interesting plot points. A world-renowned phrenologist, examining the skull of a beloved saint, claims that he was in fact evil! Religious turmoil has begun...is he telling the truth, or lying for his own benefits? And if he is telling the truth...what conspiracy led to an evil man being considered one of the most righteous? And will he survive his proclamation, or be lynched by the commoners who venerate the saint?
Milo v3 |
I need to pick up a copy of Occult Adventures, but the more I hear about it, the more I'm inclined to just keep my third party psionics handbook.
Psionics and Psychic magic are completely different in flavour and mechanics so I'm not sure why having a psionics book would impact whether you buy occult adventures.
Snowblind |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Situation 2:
Paul the Phrenologist: Ahh, yes. Before his corpse was reanimated by the dark arts, this zombie was a human in his early forties, by-the-book customer, probably an army recruiter or drill sergeant by these five levels of Warrior. Oh dear, my hands are filthy.
I am now having images of someone doing that to every single undead they kill, just to see what the GM makes up. Should be fun when the party is exploring millennia old ruins. The image of a GM having to make up backstories for frigging zombies from a lost civilization is hilarious.
On a related note, does that mean the Paizo adventure paths need to be updated with undead skull shape information for forward compatibility purposes?
DM Sothal |
Situation 3:
Paul the Phrenologist: By the contours of your cranium, I have determined that you, Brian, are a twenty-year old human male and a Chaotic Good seventh-level Bard.
Brian's Player: Was that meant to be in character? 'Cause it sounded weird... and pointless.Besides - knowing class levels in-game bugs me... I prefer the 'Symbol of Death' description where class level is an abstract.
You know, things like Spell-levels more or less indicate class levels.
It is a bit Meta, but it somehow works for me.Snorb |
Erik the Cleric: For the last time, Kate, yes, destroying the undead is a right and proper thing for Bahamut's Chosen to do, but you can't just keep doing that weird phrenology stuff on every one we destroy.
Katelyn the Kineticist: Well, I can't do it on this skeleton because you busted his skull into dust, but this ghost right here--
Erik: (sigh) She didn't have anything corporeal about her, Kate.
Distant Scholar |
Spook205 wrote:I need to pick up a copy of Occult Adventures, but the more I hear about it, the more I'm inclined to just keep my third party psionics handbook.Psionics and Psychic magic are completely different in flavour and mechanics so I'm not sure why having a psionics book would impact whether you buy occult adventures.
You do have to watch out for some name collisions, though.
Puna'chong |
Milo v3 wrote:You do have to watch out for some name collisions, though.Spook205 wrote:I need to pick up a copy of Occult Adventures, but the more I hear about it, the more I'm inclined to just keep my third party psionics handbook.Psionics and Psychic magic are completely different in flavour and mechanics so I'm not sure why having a psionics book would impact whether you buy occult adventures.
Pretty much every class but Psychic is its own unique mechanical entity. They're also pretty easy to rename or reflavor, and even the "psychic spells" mesh pretty well with established spellcasting.
Medium = Binder
Occultist = Artificer
Mesmerist = Anti-Bard
Kineticist = Elementalist
Spiritualist = Spiritualist, actually
Psychic = Sir Not Appearing in this Picture
Milo v3 |
Pretty much every class but Psychic is its own unique mechanical entity. They're also pretty easy to rename or reflavor, and even the "psychic spells" mesh pretty well with established spellcasting.Medium = Binder
Occultist = Artificer
Mesmerist = Anti-Bard
Kineticist = Elementalist
Spiritualist = Spiritualist, actually
Psychic = Sir Not Appearing in this Picture
I'm really starting to get annoyed with you repeatedly saying occultist is like artificer. They have NO similarity what so ever aside from both classes using UMD.
Starbuck_II |
Erik the Cleric: For the last time, Kate, yes, destroying the undead is a right and proper thing for Bahamut's Chosen to do, but you can't just keep doing that weird phrenology stuff on every one we destroy.
Katelyn the Kineticist: Well, I can't do it on this skeleton because you busted his skull into dust, but this ghost right here--
Erik: (sigh) She didn't have anything corporeal about her, Kate.
Won't work. Sadly once/day, not 1/say per creature. Why the limit to 1/day though?