ARG errata - regarding Favored Class Oracle Bard change


Pathfinder Society

1 to 50 of 75 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | next > last >>
Scarab Sages 5/5

+1/2 level to +1/6 level for oracles and bards is some change

but I gather since it is just a favored class bonus change - the only opportunity for rebuild is to change where the favored class bonus goes?

Grand Lodge 2/5 *

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

There's more than just that, it covers three sides of errata...

Scarab Sages 5/5

Darrell Impey UK wrote:
There's more than just that, it covers three sides of errata...

Yes there is a lot

mask of stony demeanor going from 500 gp to 8000 gp is the other big one I saw - but there may be others I missed.

4/5

Dhjika wrote:

mask of stony demeanor going from 500 gp to 8000 gp is the other big one I saw - but there may be others I missed.

About time!

Sadly, people will still try to buy the 500 gp version 'cause they didn't change it in Ultimate Equipment as well.

Scarab Sages 4/5

EvilMinion wrote:
Dhjika wrote:

mask of stony demeanor going from 500 gp to 8000 gp is the other big one I saw - but there may be others I missed.

About time!

Sadly, people will still try to buy the 500 gp version 'cause they didn't change it in Ultimate Equipment as well.

Ouch! At least my ninja made it through to retirement before that hit. It's become a big enough part of the flavor of the character, I'll probably find the gold to pay the new price before playing Eyes of the Ten, anyway.

Sovereign Court 5/5 *

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Dhjika wrote:


but I gather since it is just a favored class bonus change - the only opportunity for rebuild is to change where the favored class bonus goes?

That does seem to be the case, as that is what is outlined in the Season 7 Guide.

Scarab Sages 2/5

5 people marked this as a favorite.

Now raise your hands if you have a not-so-efficient Life Oracle for your party. =(

The Exchange 3/5

2 people marked this as a favorite.

Drat, my 11th level Life Oracle won't channel like a 15th level cleric now! What will I do?

4/5

4 of my characters affected (3 oracles, 1 bard), none of them life oracles. They are still playable although I have now lost all motivation to play my Dark Tapestry oracle after having doing numerous mini trading to get the minis for him, as well as not wanting to play at character at all now since he is just a weak druid now.

5/5 *

2 people marked this as a favorite.

You'll channel like a normal person!

Silver Crusade 5/5 5/5 **

Kigvan wrote:
Dhjika wrote:


but I gather since it is just a favored class bonus change - the only opportunity for rebuild is to change where the favored class bonus goes?
That does seem to be the case, as that is what is outlined in the Season 7 Guide.

John was very receptive to the idea of extending rebuilds for ACG changes so it is possible that he will consider extended rebuilds here as well.

If it happens it almost certainly won't happen until significantly after Gencon.

I'd suggest starting another thread and politely asking there for specific cases that you want addressed.

5/5 *****

Phew, I just built and played today my new Oracle. Put together from GM credit I went back and forth today about whether or not to go Bones and advance either Command Undead or Raise the Dead with the elf FCB. I am rather glad I ended up doing neither.

5/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

The 1/6 nerf is just crazy. 1/3 I can see but this is too much. They do realize that this applies to only one revelation right. My life oracle didn't get hit with the nerf bat, she got it broken off in her backside.

Shadow Lodge 5/5

all +1/2 effective level Favored class bonus's got Changed to +1/6

Sovereign Court 5/5 *

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

For Channeling (and normal non-seeker PFS levels) it gives you +1d6 at levels 6, 8, and 10, and +1 to the save DC at levels 7, 9, and 11, that is all you get for 6 levels of favored class bonus now, much weaker.

All that said, I still feel like my life oracle will be a welcome addition to any table he sits at with his 8d6 at level 10, rather than the 10d6 he had before this change.

5/5 *****

Soluzar wrote:
The 1/6 nerf is just crazy. 1/3 I can see but this is too much. They do realize that this applies to only one revelation right. My life oracle didn't get hit with the nerf bat, she got it broken off in her backside.

I have seen the thundercaller bard make very effective use of it. DC25 fortitude save or be stunned at level 9, used as a move action so potentially twice per round, is very strong.

5/5

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Kigvan wrote:

For Channeling (and normal non-seeker PFS levels) it gives you +1d6 at levels 6, 8, and 10, and +1 to the save DC at levels 7, 9, and 11, that is all you get for 6 levels of favored class bonus now, much weaker.

All that said, I still feel like my life oracle will be a welcome addition to any table he sits at with his 8d6 at level 10, rather than the 10d6 he had before this change.

Isn't that an additional level per 6, so 6 and 12? I'm not seeing where your numbers are coming from.

5/5 *****

From level 6 you count as being 1 level higher for channelling so where you would normally get an extra d6 at 7, 9 and 11 you now get it at 6, 8 and 10

Actually this also affects super charged animal companions for Nature and Lunar Oracles. Thankfully mine is long since retired following Emerald Spire and Wardens of the Reborn Forge.

Grand Lodge 4/5

Kigvan wrote:

For Channeling (and normal non-seeker PFS levels) it gives you +1d6 at levels 6, 8, and 10, and +1 to the save DC at levels 7, 9, and 11, that is all you get for 6 levels of favored class bonus now, much weaker.

All that said, I still feel like my life oracle will be a welcome addition to any table he sits at with his 8d6 at level 10, rather than the 10d6 he had before this change.

Do you have a phylactery, then?

5/5 *****

Jeff Merola wrote:
Kigvan wrote:

For Channeling (and normal non-seeker PFS levels) it gives you +1d6 at levels 6, 8, and 10, and +1 to the save DC at levels 7, 9, and 11, that is all you get for 6 levels of favored class bonus now, much weaker.

All that said, I still feel like my life oracle will be a welcome addition to any table he sits at with his 8d6 at level 10, rather than the 10d6 he had before this change.

Do you have a phylactery, then?

That would be 6d6, I assume he is adding a phylactery to that.

Scarab Sages 5/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.

there are some feats that required a certain number of channeling dice, that characters might no longer have prerequisites for - there might be other feat consequences for enhanced non-channelers but I off-hand can't think of them.

Scarab Sages 2/5

With GenCon coming up, and two books of errata, it will be a bit difficult for some people to get everything together, especially since I heard some rumors that some GMs take a deep look into character sheets. If you overlook something that is in the errata, or don't check online to the Paizo site that often, it can seriously cause some friction.

5/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

The lunar and nature oracles already got addressed. The nerf wasn't really needed.

Scarab Sages 4/5

Would changing a favored class bonus that went toward +1 HP into +1/6 level to a Revelation be covered? My Oracle 6/Warpriest 3 currently has 4 FCB in raising his Armor of Bones effective level and 2 in HPs. When I realized I was going to eventually start taking Warpriest levels, I changed direction on my Oracle FCB. Losing 2 levels off the armor means it would go back to 4AC instead of 6, but I only need an effective level of 7 to get the extra AC back. If I can change the +2 HPs to make all 6 levels of FCB go to raising it, I may do that. Otherwise, since I haven't played him at 9th yet, I may have to rethink it and go ahead and take a 7th level of Oracle before getting my 3rd level of Warpriest. The plan was to go back to Oracle for levels 10-12 anyway.

As far as I can tell, there are no retraining rules in Ultimate Campaign to cover FCB, so spending prestige isn't even an option.

Grand Lodge 4/5 **** Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento

from the season seven guide:

If a favored class bonus changes: You may reassign all
of your favored class bonus at each level to any of the nowlegal
options.

Scarab Sages 4/5

FLite wrote:

from the season seven guide:

If a favored class bonus changes: You may reassign all
of your favored class bonus at each level to any of the nowlegal
options.

Thanks. I see it now. For some reason my eyes skipped right over it. Now I've got to decide whether it's worth sinking 6 FCBs into something that will become irrelevant next level, or whether I'd rather have the hit points.

The Exchange 1/5

Cao Phen wrote:
With GenCon coming up, and two books of errata, it will be a bit difficult for some people to get everything together, especially since I heard some rumors that some GMs take a deep look into character sheets. If you overlook something that is in the errata, or don't check online to the Paizo site that often, it can seriously cause some friction.

This was, without question, poorly timed. I'm sure a bunch of people are getting ready for GENCON and don't have time to fiddle with character sheets. Also, it would have made sense to wait for a new organized play coordinator to help clean up the mess it made in PFS.

Grand Lodge 4/5 **** Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento

Actually, it is coming out now *because* it is before gencon.

They were trying to get this out as early as possible before gencon.

Typically the errata comes out when the new printing of the book comes out. That implies that the books that will be on sale at gen con will be the second printings of ACG and ARG.

You *really* don't want to have a situation where half the table has the 2nd printing, and half the table is working off the first because the errata isn't out yet. The drama will be disastrous.

Scarab Sages 2/5

Well, the situation is pretty much going to happen now, since you said that it implies that the 2nd printing will be on sale.

If people already have the Hardbound book, they will not take a second gander at the ones on sale.

And now we will possibly have conflics as the example I had stated earlier, where ther might be people having no clue that there was an errata, making their characters invalid. Time management will not be at its best during gaming sessions when everything has to be double-checked for errata.

Sovereign Court 5/5 *

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Jeff Merola wrote:
Kigvan wrote:

For Channeling (and normal non-seeker PFS levels) it gives you +1d6 at levels 6, 8, and 10, and +1 to the save DC at levels 7, 9, and 11, that is all you get for 6 levels of favored class bonus now, much weaker.

All that said, I still feel like my life oracle will be a welcome addition to any table he sits at with his 8d6 at level 10, rather than the 10d6 he had before this change.

Do you have a phylactery, then?

Yes that 8d6 is with the phylactery

Grand Lodge 4/5 **** Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento

Cao Phen wrote:

Well, the situation is pretty much going to happen now, since you said that it implies that the 2nd printing will be on sale.

If people already have the Hardbound book, they will not take a second gander at the ones on sale.

And now we will possibly have conflics as the example I had stated earlier, where ther might be people having no clue that there was an errata, making their characters invalid. Time management will not be at its best during gaming sessions when everything has to be double-checked for errata.

But hopefully we can mitigate it by letting people know what is going on.

At very least most people who have the PDF should have gotten an email to let them know that it had changed.

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/55/55/55/5 **** Venture-Captain, Minnesota

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Why did they do that to bards? Inspire courage takes a long time to ramp up. And bards are hardly overpowered.

My Oradin, Lyric, was hoping to use the FCB to catch up with channel to make up for her multiclassing. Now she never will. The problem with lunar and nature oracles was addressed. Why was this nerf needed?

EDITED to ADD:

Please understand... I'm not normally a grumpy pants poster. But to me this seems like a nerf targeted specifically at builds that are team-oriented and that help others. Why is this a good thing?

5/5 *

Bard change affects thundercaller archetype bards who were abusing the boosted feature for massive damage and savers.

Other oracles also got affected, like dark tapestry and apocalypse. Another VL in my area has a dark tapestry and I have an apocalypse.

3/5 RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16

My bard was scheduled to get Inspire Courage +3 next level, at 8. With the change, I'll be changing those FCBs to skill points, to boost his Knowledge skills, which isn't a huge loss.

My level 9 nature oracle's mount just lost 2 effective druid levels, and a 3rd she was scheduled to pick up at level 11. Not world-shattering, but a bit sad.

4/5

Carlos Robledo wrote:
Bard change affects thundercaller archetype bards who were abusing the boosted feature for massive damage and savers.

I have a thundercaller bard affected by this. This isn't a huge deal and doesn't really break the character.

Off Topic:
However, if people were calculating the saving throw off of their bard level, that was actually incorrect to begin with. It should be based on sound burst's spell level, so 12 + charisma modifier, not 10 + 1/2 bard level + charisma modifier. Nowhere is there actually a universal rule for how to calculate bardic performance DCs...it is always in the description for each performance, so with a lack of description, this defaults the the level of the spell it is mimicking.

Also, just because a few (popular) options were not liked using this FCB; many, many more concepts were nuked because of it for both bards and oracles. (Not really directed at you Carlos. Just a general statement.)

1/5

This is NOT earth shattering people! All of your characters, minus a few that are utilizing feats they no longer qualify for, are perfectly fine and playable. +1/6 is a little too much of a cut from +1/2 IMO, but +1/2 was pretty ridiculous. There was a reason that everyone was taking this FCB. It was mechanically well above everything else. As such, it was bound to be brought back down to reality / "nerfed."

Yes...Paizo took away my ability to make my bard inspire courage at lvl 17 while only being lvl 9 (FCB and Banner Ancient Kings). However, he is still a perfectly acceptable build with the change. I may even keep the the same FCB. Now instead of having a +4/+4 inspire courage at 9 I will get it at 12. The alternative is to probably grab some skill points and flush out my knowledges.

....I think Joseph and I have similar characters...

3/5 RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Lab_Rat wrote:

This is NOT earth shattering people! All of your characters, minus a few that are utilizing feats they no longer qualify for, are perfectly fine and playable. +1/6 is a little too much of a cut from +1/2 IMO, but +1/2 was pretty ridiculous. There was a reason that everyone was taking this FCB. It was mechanically well above everything else. As such, it was bound to be brought back down to reality / "nerfed."

I think, in a vacuum, it wouldn't have been a big deal. I agree those options were very powerful, and probably should have been nerfed more toward 1/4 level or so.

However it came right on the heels of the ACG errata, which completely obliterated a lot of character builds. Personally, out of my 12 living PFS characters, 5 had some amount of retraining, and one was changed so much I'm still not sure how to fix him.

On top of that, it came out the day before GenCon starts, so it's a recipe for a lot of confusion and frustration as people try to get everything fixed. The errata should have been released after GenCon, and especially after the retraining rules were worked out.

1/5

Joseph Kellogg wrote:
Lab_Rat wrote:

This is NOT earth shattering people! All of your characters, minus a few that are utilizing feats they no longer qualify for, are perfectly fine and playable. +1/6 is a little too much of a cut from +1/2 IMO, but +1/2 was pretty ridiculous. There was a reason that everyone was taking this FCB. It was mechanically well above everything else. As such, it was bound to be brought back down to reality / "nerfed."

I think, in a vacuum, it wouldn't have been a big deal. I agree those options were very powerful, and probably should have been nerfed more toward 1/4 level or so.

However it came right on the heels of the ACG errata, which completely obliterated a lot of character builds. Personally, out of my 12 living PFS characters, 5 had some amount of retraining, and one was changed so much I'm still not sure how to fix him.

On top of that, it came out the day before GenCon starts, so it's a recipe for a lot of confusion and frustration as people try to get everything fixed. The errata should have been released after GenCon, and especially after the retraining rules were worked out.

Totally agree with you that it was bad timing. The 2 erratas should have been spaced out and not thrown in just before GENCON. However, I don't think PFS had any say in that timeline.

4/5

Lab_Rat wrote:
This is NOT earth shattering people! All of your characters, minus a few that are utilizing feats they no longer qualify for, are perfectly fine and playable. +1/6 is a little too much of a cut from +1/2 IMO, but +1/2 was pretty ridiculous. There was a reason that everyone was taking this FCB. It was mechanically well above everything else. As such, it was bound to be brought back down to reality / "nerfed."

How about people who multiclassed and used this to catch up their favored class bonus? Now, the amount they can multiclass to have the same effect has changed, which can DRASTICALLY affect multiclass builds.

How about my Dark Tapestry oracle that the only reason I was playing him was because I thought it would be cool to get Greater Polymorph at level 11, and now he won't get it in his PFS career at all and all the different minis I collected for him are for naught?

How about people who were taking abilities that were not as good and using the FCB to make them a little better?

The "Flavor of the Month" builds with life oracle, nature/lunar oracle, thundercaller bard, FCB for inspire courage, etc. are all still very playable builds (although I would still argue that some people will no longer want to play some of them anymore). But that's not the only people affected by this.

5/5 *

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Andrew Roberts wrote:
Stuff

Amen. I don't want to assume that everyone affected was using the "cookie cutter" uses for the FCB. I'm sure there are plenty of people who were using this for a myriad of things that I never thought of (I was using it on erosion touch on Apocalypse oracle. Not even that OP).

We don't know what level of attachment other people had to their nerfed character. Some people will retire characters over this rather than rebuild, ESPECIALLY if not allowed a full rebuild of those class levels and only allowed to swap out their FCB. And yes, some people will quit the campaign because errata.

It happens.

But I don't want to assume how big a deal or not this changes are for other people.

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/55/55/55/5 **** Venture-Captain, Minnesota

Lyric is a half-elf Oradin and was going to use the FCB to catch up her channel to what non-multi-classed builds get. At 1/4, I still might have been able to do it within the span of a PFS career. At 1/6, I am now going to plow those FCBs into extra skill points, hit points and spells.

Fortunately, I chose Spirit Guide Archetype for Lyric, so I can do more than just heal, because my channeling has just became a minor sideline rather than a central facet to my build.

A few days ago, when I had read the rules on retraining FCBs, I thought... "Oh, they're going to add a bunch of cool options for FCBs for races that don't get FCBs in certain classes, and they're going to let existing characters take advantage of them. How nice!"

I didn't realize that such a heavy hammer was landing.

I know it's not the end of the world. It's just disheartening.

Silver Crusade 3/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Carlos Robledo wrote:
We don't know what level of attachment other people had to their nerfed character.

This.

Carlos Robledo wrote:
But I don't want to assume how big a deal or not this changes are for other people.

And this.

Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 ** Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I think you're better off not spacing out those errata over time. Not only does Macchiavelli recommend doing all the horrible things at once, and spreading out kindness over time, so people are reminded of it frequently... It's better to rebuild once, than to rebuild, face another errata, and have to rebuild the same character again.

Giving more time before big Cons on the other hand, might've been handy.

Silver Crusade 3/5

Ascalaphus wrote:

I think you're better off not spacing out those errata over time. Not only does Macchiavelli recommend doing all the horrible things at once, and spreading out kindness over time, so people are reminded of it frequently... It's better to rebuild once, than to rebuild, face another errata, and have to rebuild the same character again.

Giving more time before big Cons on the other hand, might've been handy.

Yeah, I agree.

The ideal would have been for this to come out right after PaizoCon. I'm guessing that was Paizo's hope.

They could not delay either of these errata until after GenCon because—as has been stated elsewhere and repeatedly—they will have the 2nd printings of these books available for sale at GenCon.

One possibility that they may or may not have explored is allowing a grace period on rebuilding characters until after GenCon—allow players to continue playing their pre-errata characters as they are, but require retraining if they are to be played after GenCon.

Of course, this is all Monday morning quarterbacking (and armchair quarterbacking to boot!).

5/5

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Mystic Madness wrote:
Cao Phen wrote:
With GenCon coming up, and two books of errata, it will be a bit difficult for some people to get everything together, especially since I heard some rumors that some GMs take a deep look into character sheets. If you overlook something that is in the errata, or don't check online to the Paizo site that often, it can seriously cause some friction.
This was, without question, poorly timed. I'm sure a bunch of people are getting ready for GENCON and don't have time to fiddle with character sheets. Also, it would have made sense to wait for a new organized play coordinator to help clean up the mess it made in PFS.

No, lets call this out for what it really is: stupid.

Note: this comment is not aimed at the PFS staff/devs who don't really decide these issues. This is due to the severity of the changes coupled with the coming day before GenCon.

Shadow Lodge 4/5

Image boards are that way ->

Silver Crusade 5/5 5/5 **

Hmm wrote:

Why did they do that to bards? Inspire courage takes a long time to ramp up. And bards are hardly overpowered.

My non Aasimar bard is already handing out very good bonuses (+5 at level 10), already making her the primary damage dealer at the table :-). She really, really doesn't need the extra + 1 or 2. She is on the border of overpowered as she is (some people definitely claim that she is already past that border).

And Aasimar are a VERY powerful race for bards without the FCB. They definitely don't need the boost.

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/55/55/55/5 **** Venture-Captain, Minnesota

How are you doing +5 at level 10? Can you unpack the bonuses for me and my currently low-level, non-aasimar bard so I can know what to build for?

4/5

Probably Banner of the Ancient Kings for +2 with Flagbearer and a +3 Inspire Courage bonus from the boosted bard levels from the banner, which can be done as early as level 7.

It's just being a bard, an item, and a feat. Not really an entire build.

Almost the same thing can be achieved with the Good Hope spell. (Same bonuses but takes a level 3 spell)

1 to 50 of 75 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | next > last >>
Community / Forums / Organized Play / Pathfinder Society / ARG errata - regarding Favored Class Oracle Bard change All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.