Pearl of power for spontaneous casters


Rules Questions


Is there any item that grants a spontaneous caster extra spells or even let's them recast the same spell again but on a different target? I'm trying to use my 12th level inquisitor's 3rd level spells to cast greater magic weapon and magic vestments on everyone in the party's weapons armor and shields. The problem is I need 13 3rd level spells per day to do so. I know I could make a staff but then we'd need ten days of down time between adventuring days, or at least major days.


Diskordant wrote:
Is there any item that grants a spontaneous caster extra spells or even let's them recast the same spell again but on a different target? I'm trying to use my 12th level inquisitor's 3rd level spells to cast greater magic weapon and magic vestments on everyone in the party's weapons armor and shields. The problem is I need 13 3rd level spells per day to do so. I know I could make a staff but then we'd need ten days of down time between adventuring days, or at least major days.

Not by default. However, according to the item price guidelines, it should cost the same as a pearl of power for normal casters. Heck, just allowing you to mirror-move a previously cast spell would make it pretty much identical to the wizard version. In fact, there's no reason not to allow normal pearls to work, because it saves you the need to make an entirely new item within the rules to do the same thing. Especially since sorcerers already get less bang out of pearls than wizards (pearls let wizards be semi-spontaneous).

EDIT: Also, for the record, the idea that sorcerers get more spells per day than wizards is generally incorrect. Assuming specialist wizard (and you should), you are generally have about the same spells per day except at 1st and 2nd level, and at the very highest levels.

See, a 3rd level wizard has at least 1 2nd level spell. Probably 2 (specialist), plus bonus spells. The sorcerer has none at all. Meaning the wizard has 2-3 more spells of a higher level prior to the sorcerer. At 4th level, when the sorcerer gets his 3 spells of 2nd level, the wizard gains an additional 2nd level spell, putting him at 3/day as well. So, finally at 5th level the sorcerer has +1 2nd level spell over the wizard, but now the wizard has 2-3 3rd level spells over the sorcerer. Rinse, repeat.

Add in stuff like pearls of power, special spellbooks, and so forth, and it's like getting a limited spontaneous casting, sudden metamagic, and so forth. That's not even mentioning (but let's mention it) scribe scroll, which a wizard can use to stockpile spells for a rainy day, or craft wand, or similar. Wizard is also better at creating magic items, and can amass far more spells. Hell, a wizard can have his familiar cast spells via items he creates while he's casting spells from his spells known.

The point of this little rant: Let the sorcerers get some love, use some pearls, and maybe even shift their spell slots down a level to actually give them a bone.


That's a good point about custom magic items costing the same as an item with similar effects. I would even make it a full round action to use just to make my DM happy to off-set the increased usefulness for spontaneous casters. That also keeps it in line with metamagic feats.


The problem with pearls for sorcerer's is the fact they can use the slot for any spell they know where as the wizard is still stuck with the spell they cast the first time.

If you want to let sorcerers use pearls I would suggest making a spell 'echo chamber' that will let them repeat a spell they've already cast once in a day (much like the echo spell metamagic feat) -- that provides close to the same limit the wizard has on pearls of power, and therefore the cost and benefit would remain close to the same.


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I believe that Memento Magica were priced at 150% of the equivalent peral of power.

Edit: Oh and the two spells version might not have existed.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Diskordant wrote:
Is there any item that grants a spontaneous caster extra spells or even let's them recast the same spell again but on a different target?

Yes, the runestone of power (pathfinder society field guide) allow spontaneous casters to cast an addional spell of a given level per day..

They cost 2x SL^2.


Maezer wrote:
Diskordant wrote:
Is there any item that grants a spontaneous caster extra spells or even let's them recast the same spell again but on a different target?

Yes, the runestone of power (pathfinder society field guide) allow spontaneous casters to cast an addional spell of a given level per day..

They cost 2x SL^2.

I'm sure you must have that formula wrong >.<

Incidentally, what Abraham is neglecting to mention is the fact that Wizards can repeat any spell they prepared and cast that day, which can be a pretty broad list. Sorcerers are stuck with the few spells they know of any given level.

Thus it's not at all untoward to simply let sorcerers use Pearls of Power as wondrous item spell slots.


kyrt-ryder wrote:

I'm sure you must have that formula wrong >.<

Incidentally, what Abraham is neglecting to mention is the fact that Wizards can repeat any spell they prepared and cast that day, which can be a pretty broad list. Sorcerers are stuck with the few spells they know of any given level.

Thus it's not at all untoward to simply let sorcerers use Pearls of Power as wondrous item spell slots.

Well of that level so yeah it could be -- I don't mean to under play it simply pointing out the logic that's been used in the past to increase the price for the spontaneous version. Funnily enough a cleric gets even more use out of pearls of power than the wizard does since the cleric can spontaneously drop spells for cures and then replace them with the pearl of power.

All in all I too don't see it as a "huge deal". Especially considering things like the magecraft amulet.


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Diskordant wrote:
That's a good point about custom magic items costing the same as an item with similar effects. I would even make it a full round action to use just to make my DM happy to off-set the increased usefulness for spontaneous casters. That also keeps it in line with metamagic feats.

I wouldn't even say that spontaneous casters would have an advantage. Pearls of Power specifically allow you to re-cast a spell you have previously cast. That's arguably more advantageous to prepared casters.

Example
Wizard prepares 5 spells.
- Fireball
- Fly
- Haste
- Dispel Magic
- Extended Rope Trick

Sorcerer has 4 spells slots and the following spells known
- Fireball
- Haste

Both have 1 pearl and can use it (because as a house rule both can use the pearl).

So the wizard casts Fireball, Fly, Haste, and Dispel Magic. Later, he uses the Pearl to re-cast any spell he has previously cast. He may select from Fireball, Fly, Haste, or Dispel Magic; making it appear like he is some sort of pseudo-spontaneous caster with a large variety.

The sorcerer has cast both Fireball and Haste, and could choose one or the other. Not gaining anything on the wizard here. If the sorcerer had only cast Fireball repeatedly, and was now otherwise out of slots, he couldn't use the pearl to cast Haste because it is not a spell he has previously cast.

Hence, requiring a full-round action would be overkill in terms of checks and balances. Heck, even if you just allowed the sorcerer to take his slot back (and didn't count which spells he had used), it probably would still not favor the sorcerer over the wizard.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
kyrt-ryder wrote:

I'm sure you must have that formula wrong >.<

Yeah. Sorry. I always round things to the 1,000s in magic items but I did leave that out.

Its 2,000x SL^2.

1st level: 2,000
2nd level: 8,000
3rd level: 18,000
4th level: 32,000
5th level: 50,000
6th level: 72,000
7th level: 98,000
8th level: 128,000
9th level: 162,000

It also has the quasi advantage in be used in the same action as casting the spell. Rather than requiring an additional standard action ala the pearl of power.


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Yeah... that's crazy expensive. Pearls of power are bad enough >.<

Edit: HO-LY-S#**! I just read that Amulet you mentioned Abe.

That uh... really makes my sorcerer feel small in the pants xD.


I don't get the hate on spontaneous casters. 2x the cost when they have a much more limited selection of spells. And that amulet is insane. You buy three of them for different schools and now you're virtually a spontaneous caster, just takes you two move actions to switch amulets. My GM is already expecting me to buy pearls of power so hopefully he'll let it slide with those.


That doesn't work Diskordant, you have to declare the object as your Bonded Item.

Even so, choose Conjuration or Transmutation and you're pretty much set. (Most likely specializing in Conjuration and Amuletting Transmutation)


kyrt-ryder wrote:

That doesn't work Diskordant, you have to declare the object as your Bonded Item.

Even so, choose Conjuration or Transmutation and you're pretty much set. (Most likely specializing in Conjuration and Amuletting Transmutation)

You are right, so instead you invest another 40k(1/2 of the 80k market price to add the effect twice more for different schools) and now you can do it with 3 schools. 50k total to basically make you a better spontaneous caster than a sorcerer is pretty cheap.


Diskordant wrote:
kyrt-ryder wrote:

That doesn't work Diskordant, you have to declare the object as your Bonded Item.

Even so, choose Conjuration or Transmutation and you're pretty much set. (Most likely specializing in Conjuration and Amuletting Transmutation)

You are right, so instead you invest another 40k(1/2 of the 80k market price to add the effect twice more for different schools) and now you can do it with 3 schools. 50k total to basically make you a better spontaneous caster than a sorcerer is pretty cheap.

Or you do something that doesn't require custom items. Specialize in Transmutation and wear the Annihilation Spectacles and assign the amulet to Conjuration.

Boom, done.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

You do realize you have to be a universalist (ie not specialized) to get the amulet to function.


Maezer wrote:
You do realize you have to be a universalist (ie not specialized) to get the amulet to function.

Wups xD. Even I miss some things once in a while. (No worse than you thinking you could swap amulets :P)


Actually that was me that thought you could use multiple. But close enough.


I'm just going to withdraw from this thread before I shove my foot any deeper into my mouth. Peace.

Liberty's Edge

Maezer wrote:
You do realize you have to be a universalist (ie not specialized) to get the amulet to function.

Just to make it clearer, you are "paying" for it with one less spell of each level (As it was already pointed out being a specialist is almost mandatory now.)

Runestone of Power wrote:


Aura strong transmutation;
CL 17th
Slot none; Price 2,000 gp (1st), 8,000 gp (2nd), 18,000
gp (3rd), 32,000 gp (4th), 50,000 gp (5th), 72,000 gp
(6th), 98,000 gp (7th), 128,000 gp (8th), 162,000 gp (9th);
Weight —
Description
A runestone of power is a small chip of polished stone etched with a rune. Traditionally, this rune is one of many Thassilonian runes for magic, but more recently created runestones of power often substitute runes from other cultures—the nature of the rune itself has no effect on the runestone’s actual powers. These objects are potent aids to all spellcasters who cast spells spontaneously (bards, inquisitors, oracles, sorcerers, and summoners, but not to spellcasters like clerics who have the option to spontaneously cast certain spells). Once per day, a spontaneous caster can draw upon a runestone of power to cast a spell—doing so is part of the spellcasting action, and expends that runestone’s power for the day rather than one of the spellcaster’s actual spell slots for the day. An expended runestone of power
recharges its capacity after 24 hours. The spell must be of a particular level, depending on the runestone
Pearl of Power wrote:


Slot —; Price 1,000 gp (1st), 4,000 gp (2nd), 9,000 gp (3rd), 16,000 gp (4th), 25,000 gp (5th), 36,000 gp (6th), 49,000 gp (7th), 64,000 gp (8th), 81,000 gp (9th), 70,000 gp (two spells); Weight —

.... Once per day on command, a pearl of power enables the possessor to recall any one spell that she had prepared and then cast that day.

I would say that the action economy give a reason for the extra cost of the runestones.

Naturally we are speaking of characters that always get the items they want, the amulet, the pearls and the runestones.
In most campaigns that is very far from a given thing.


Actually the amulet would by definition be crafted by the wizard and he could have exactly what he wants in any campaign where you can accumulate wealth.

Also in my campaign the GM is allowing us to buy basically anything we want, I have a use activated scabbard of bless weapon and lead blades and boots of expeditious retreat all for ridiculously little money. That being said it takes everything we got each fight to win.

Edit: I suppose the amulet does still require GM approval, my point being that he doesn't have to find it since it's his bonded item, he can craft it and personalize it.

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