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Today I was thinking of making an engineer class, so I did, enjoy.
Engineer
Role: The engineer focuses on non-magic battlefield control, from shooting cannons, to raising the terrain to shooting nets out of a gun. The engineer can also hold his own in combat with an enemy, with a style similar to the gunslinger.
Alignment: Any.
Hit Die: d10.
Class Skills
The engineer’s class skills are Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disable Device (Cha), Heal (Wis), Knowledge (engineering) (Int), Linguistics (Int), Perception (Wis), Spellcraft (Int), Stealth (Dex), and Use Magic Device (Cha).
Skill Ranks per Level: 4 + Int modifier.
Starting Wealth
The following table lists the starting gold piece value for engineer characters. In addition, each character begins play with an outfit worth 10 gp or less.
×10 gp
Class Starting Wealth Average
Engineer 4d6 140 gp
Class Features
The following are the class features of the engineer.
Level Base Attack Bonus Fort Save Ref Save Will Save Special
1st +0 +2 +0 +2 Engineer’s Lore, Mechanical Bombs, Bonus Feats, Bomb 1d6.
2nd +1 +3 +0 +3 Self-Defence, Siege Focus.
3rd +2 +3 +1 +3 Quick Engineering, Bomb 2d6
4th +3 +4 +1 +4
5th +3 +4 +1 +4 Bomb 3d6,
6th +4 +5 +2 +5 Gun Training 1
7th +5 +5 +2 +5 Bomb 4d6,
8th +6/+1 +6 +2 +6
9th +6/+1 +6 +3 +6 Fast Bombs, Bomb 5d6
10th +7/+2 +7 +3 +7 Large Weapons.
11th +8/+3 +7 +3 +7 Bomb 6d6.
12th +9/+4 +8 +4 +8 Gun Training 2.
13th +9/+4 +8 +4 +8 Bomb 7d6.
14th +10/+5 +9 +4 +9
15th +11/+6/+1 +9 +5 +9 Bomb 8d6.
16th +12/+7/+2 +10 +5 +10
17th +12/+7/+2 +10 +5 +10 Bomb 9d6.
18th +13/+8/+3 +11 +6 +11 Gun Training 3.
19th +14/+9/+4 +11 +6 +11 Bomb 10d6.
20th +15/+10/+5 +12 +6 +12 True Engineer.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: An engineer is proficient with all simple weapons, plus all Crossbows, the Lance, Net, Scythe and Starknife as well as bombs, firearms and siege weapons. Engineers are also proficient with light armor and shields (except tower shields).
Engineer’s Lore: An engineer adds half his class level on Knowledge (engineering), Use Magic Device and Disable Device skill checks and may make those checks untrained.
Mechanical Bombs: This is identical to the alchemist ability of the same name, save the bombs deal force damage instead of fire damage.
Bonus Feats: An engineer gains Gunsmithing and Brew Potion as bonus feats as 1st level.
Devices: An engineer casts non-magical spells drawn mostly from the engineer spell list presented below. She can activate any device she knows without preparing it ahead of time. To activate a device, an engineer must have an Intelligence score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against an engineer's spell is 12 + the spell level + the engineer's Intelligence modifier.
Like other spellcasters, an engineer can create only a certain number of devices per day. She can create 10 total devices of any combination of devices of the engineer device list.
An engineer's selection of devices is extremely limited. An engineer begins play knowing the Grease spell (Oil Spill Device), at 4th level she gains the Web spell (Spider’s Silk Device), at 8th level she gains the Sleet Storm spell (Forced Hail Device), at 10th level he adds the Black Tentacles spell (Mechanical Tentacles Device) to his list of devices known, at 13th level he adds Wall of Stone Spell (Stone Creation Device) to her list of devices known and at 16th level she adds the Forceful Hand spell (Outward Explosion Device) to his list of devices known. Any Summoned creatures gain the construct type instead of their normal type.
An engineer may know any number of spells (devices). He must create and choose his devices ahead of time by getting 8 hours of sleep and spending 30 minutes creating his devices. While creating his devices, the engineer chooses their function from his list of devices known.
Self-Defence: At 2nd level, engineers learn to defend themselves from opponents and to herd them where you want them to go; they gain a +2 bonus to their CMD and a +2 bonus to their CMB when making a Trip or Bull Rush attempt.
Siege Focus: At 2nd level you gain Siege Gunner and Combat Reflexes as bonus feats, also, siege weapons you build have extra hit points equal to half your class level+ your Intelligence Modifier.
Quick Engineering: At 3rd level engineers can build various siege engines with astonishing speed; and it takes an engineer a half the time and a quarter cost to build a Siege Engine of any kind, and you gain a bonus on Craft (siege weapons) equal to half you class level.
Gun Training: At 6th level and every 6 levels thereafter, you gain the Gunslinger Gun Training class feature; you can also pick a type of crossbow for this ability.
Fast Bombs (Ex): At 9th level, the engineer gains the fast bombs alchemist discovery.
Large Weapons: At 11th level, you arms grow more muscular from wielding huge siege weapons, permanently increase your strength by 1, also, you are treated as 1 size larger for the purpose of wielding firearms and crossbows one size larger than you.
True Engineer: At 20th level, you have mastered siege weapons it has paid off with your IQ, you can build Siege Weapons of any kind as a full-round action, also, you gain the Void Bomb alchemist discovery, and you permanently gain a +1 bonus to your Intelligence.
I hope you like my base class, feedback appreciated, feel (more than) free to playtest it, or any suggestions for next time?
1) Force bombs at 1st level is too powerful. Force is one of the strongest damage types in the game. It also doesn't make thematic sense since it's not a magical class and force effects are created through magic.
2) Devices is really mechanically confusing. It describes them as spells, but they're not magical and...not really spells? The flavor behind them isn't explained. Why is the base DC 12 instead of 10 like normal spells? Turning the summons into constructs is actually quite strong.
3) It feels really odd that the class gets huge muscular arms as a class feature when it seems more about intelligence and blasting things. Other classes don't really receive features like this.
4) Getting a bonus per level on Knowledge (engineering) makes sense, but not Use Magic Device and Disable Device. That's too much.
5) I have mixed feelings about the class getting gun training.
6) There's really not much to the class at all. It's basically just an alchemist with a bunch of feats instead of discoveries.
look up machinesmith, i think they do it a bit better.(at least for advice.)
1) Force bombs at 1st level is too powerful. Force is one of the strongest damage types in the game. It also doesn't make thematic sense since it's not a magical class and force effects are created through magic.
One of the strongest? :)
Hit dice should be dropped to d8.
The skill list scattered. Diplomacy seems out of place, except in that almost every class gets one social skill. Heal, and Spellcraft feel out of place too. Linguistics I am -eh- about. I only mention that Perception feels unusual because nothing in your description aludes to it, and almost every homebrew class I see gets Perception. Is suppose Stealth makes sense for sneaking in and placing his bombs. In your own words, this is a "non-magic" class, so Use Magic Device is very out of place. It feels like its here for the same reason as Perception: its a great skill. I would add in a couple more Knowledge skills, Appraise, and Profession. 4 skill points seems fine.
Starting wealth should be next to alignment and hit dice, not referenced in a table. Look at any Paizo class and try to follow the format.
Proficiencies need to be trimmed back. Start with simple weapons and light armor, then go from there. He already gets some crossbows, but all crossbows seems overkill because almost anything could appear in a splatbook or 3rd party material. Add in hand crossbows if you think it is important enough. Lance? He doesn't even get Ride as a class skill, and it makes no sense. Nets, scythes, and starknives? Why? He is already proficient in bombs because they count as improvised throwing weapons.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: An engineer is proficient with all simple weapons, plus all Crossbows, the Lance, Net, Scythe and Starknife as well as bombs, firearms and siege weapons. Engineers are also proficient with light armor and shields (except tower shields). The class features are getting pretty numerous, so since proficiency with guns and siege weapons normally cost feat, I suggest perhaps a class feature that lets the engineer gain them as he advances in level.
A skill bonus to Engineering makes sense, but UMD makes absolutely none. If anything, I would make Trapfinding a class feature, and perhaps some other class feature thats a bonus to Craft that advances at a slower rate, such as 1/3 or 1/4. Or, simply take a cue from the alchemist and let him add his level to all craft (siege weapon) checks. You could justify granting a bonus to Craft (traps) as well.
Just call the bomb feature Bombs and keep it fire damage. Force makes no sense. Force damage is as magical as you can get.
There is so much in this class that throwing in Gunsmithing and Brew Potion is just getting over the top. Give him a Bonus Feat progression and write up a bonus feat list that includes the siege weapons and the gun stuff.
Your devices/spellcasting feature needs to be revisited.
The self-defense feature? Why is this here?
More bonus feats from Siege Focus? Same as above.
The basic idea of Quick Engineering is fine, but needs revisiting. The cost is already cut in half when you craft an item, and there is no need to go further. Half the time is pretty good. If you want to give another benefit (just as the alchemist's swift alchemy does), I suggest coming up with something else.
Why did you choose gun training? I thought that siege weapons and other devices were important too. Strange to focus on this.
Fast Bombs seems an odd choice, furthering the scatteredness. I am thinking that he should gain an Engineer Talent at every even-numbered level. Here is where you can put the alchemist bomb discoveries, the bonus feats, the affinities for guns, traps, siege weapons, etc.
Large Weapons is okay in concept, but I would instead say that he counts as being one size category larger when making attacks siege weapons and firearms. But you could easily do without this one completely, or make it a talent.
I would scrap you capstone and try again.
Yeah on many levels this is poorly designed class in overpowering ways.
Okay all of you make very good points. How is this?
Engineer
Role: The engineer focuses on non-magic battlefield control, from shooting cannons, to raising the terrain to shooting nets out of a gun. The engineer can also hold his own in combat with an enemy, with a style similar to the gunslinger.
Alignment: Any.
Hit Die: d8.
Class Skills
The engineer’s class skills are Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Disable Device (Cha), Knowledge (arcana) (Int), Knowledge (engineering) (Int), Knowledge (history) (Int), Linguistics (Int), Ride (Dex), Stealth (Dex), and Use Magic Device (Cha).
Skill Ranks per Level: 4 + Int modifier.
Starting Wealth
The following table lists the starting gold piece value for engineer characters. In addition, each character begins play with an outfit worth 10 gp or less.
×10 gp
Class Starting Wealth Average
Engineer 4d6 140 gp
Class Features
The following are the class features of the engineer.
Level Base Attack Bonus Fort Save Ref Save Will Save Special
1st +0 +2 +0 +2 Engineer’s Lore, Electric Bombs, Bonus Feats, Bomb 1d6.
2nd +1 +3 +0 +3 Engineer Talent.
3rd +2 +3 +1 +3 Bomb 2d6.
4th +3 +4 +1 +4 Engineer Talent.
5th +3 +4 +1 +4 Bomb 3d6.
6th +4 +5 +2 +5 Engineer Talent.
7th +5 +5 +2 +5 Bomb 4d6.
8th +6/+1 +6 +2 +6 Engineer Talent.
9th +6/+1 +6 +3 +6 Bomb 5d6.
10th +7/+2 +7 +3 +7 Engineer Talent.
11th +8/+3 +7 +3 +7 Bomb 6d6.
12th +9/+4 +8 +4 +8 Engineer Talent
13th +9/+4 +8 +4 +8 Bomb 7d6.
14th +10/+5 +9 +4 +9 Engineer Talent.
15th +11/+6/+1 +9 +5 +9 Bomb 8d6.
16th +12/+7/+2 +10 +5 +10 Engineer Talent.
17th +12/+7/+2 +10 +5 +10 Bomb 9d6.
18th +13/+8/+3 +11 +6 +11 Engineer Talent.
19th +14/+9/+4 +11 +6 +11 Bomb 10d6.
20th +15/+10/+5 +12 +6 +12 True Engineer Talent.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: An engineer is proficient with all simple weapons, plus Hand Crossbows and Nets as well as bombs. Engineers are also proficient with light armor and shields (except tower shields).
Engineer’s Lore: An engineer adds half his class level on Knowledge (engineering)and Disable Device skill checks and may make those checks untrained.
Electric Bombs: This is identical to the alchemist ability of the same name, save the bombs deal electric damage instead of fire damage.
Gunsmith: Engineers gains Gunsmithing as bonus feat at 1st level.
Throw Anything: Engineers gain throw anything as a bonus feat at 1st level.
Engineer Talent: At 2nd level and every 2 levels thereafter, engineers gain an engineer talent from the list below, engineer talents can not be selected more then once unless noted.
Alchemist Discoveries: An engineer can take a bomb discovery in place of an engineer talent. Can take Fire Bombs in place of Shock Bombs.
Fire Bombs: An engineer with this discovery can choose that his bombs deal fire damage instead of electricity damage. (Engineer Only)
Firearm Proficiency: Engineers with this talent are proficient with firearms.
Crossbow Training: This ability is identical to the Bolt Ace ability of the same name. You must be 7th level to select this talent.
Basic Gunslinger: Engineers with this talent gain Amateur Gunslinger as a bonus feat.
Oil Spill: Engineers with this talent can use Grease as a non-magical ability 3 times per day.
Mechanical Tentacle: Engineers with this talent can use Black Tentacles as a non-magical ability 3 times per day. You must be 11th level to select this talent.
-> -> Add more talents here <- <-
True Engineer Talent: At 20th level, you gain one of the following Final Engineer Talents.
Master Engineer: You may always take 20 on knowledge (engineering) and disable device checks, and you confirm any critical hit with any weapon you crafted.
Philosopher's Stone: The engineer learns how to create a philosopher's stone, and can do so once per month at no cost. Creating a philosopher's stone takes 1 day of work.
Gunslinger: You gain the Grit and Deeds abilities of a gunslinger your level -5.
True Bomber: You gain two free alchemist bomb discoveries and gain the effects of a permanent non-magical Bomber's Eye spell.
Now I will explain every thing.
Class Skills-
Climb- Just seamed fitting for some reason.
Craft- Everybody has craft.
Disable Device- Obvious.
Knowledge (arcana)- An engineer has got to know what mystical creature he is up against.
Knowledge (engineering)- Ahem, Engineer=Engineering.
Knowledge (history)- See climb.
Linguistics- Just so you can have a chance at party face.
Ride- See climb.
Stealth- Sometimes you must sneak around and plant bombs.
Use Magic Device- It says device in the name, so it seems fitting.
Weapon Proficiencies-
Hand Crossbow- Engineers and Crossbows go together.
Net- When have you seen a movie when an engineer didn't have a net?
Simple Weapons- No need to explain.
Bombs- One of the main mechanics of the class.
Class Features-
Gunsmith- With guns being a secondary feature of the class, being able to repair and craft guns before you could shoot them properly was nice i thought.
Electric Bombs- I wanted to make engineers bomb's differant from alchemist's bombs, and i thought electricity damage the most fitting and the least OP damage type.
Throw Anything- For bombs.
Engineer Talents-
Bomb Discoveries- Boring old bombs needed an upgrade.
Firearm Proficiency: I think this makes sense.
Crossbow Training: This too.
Oil Spill- Battlefield Control is the other of engineer's secondary class feature. (With talents)
Mechanical Tentacles- See Oil Spill.
True Engineer Discoveries-
Master Engineer- See engineer's lore.
Philosopher's Stone- Fun AND Effective :)
Gunslinger- I can't explain for some reason.
True Bomber- Yay! Better Bombs and Eyes!
I hope you like engineer 2.0 now :)
Role: shoots and/or blows up shoots things, etc.
Alignment: Any.
Hit Die: d8.
Medium BAB
Good Fort
Good Ref
Poor Will
Starting Wealth: 4d6 × 10 gp (average 140gp.) In addition, each character begins play with an outfit worth 10 gp or less.
Class Skills
The engineer’s class skills are Appraise (Int), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Disable Device (Dex), Knowledge (arcana) (Int), Knowledge (engineering) (Int), Knowledge (history) (Int), Linguistics (Int), Profession (Wis), Stealth (Dex), and Swim (Str).
Skill Ranks per Level: 4 + Int modifier.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Engineers are proficient with all simple weapons, plus the hand crossbow, net, and bombs. They are proficient with light armor and shields (except tower shields).
Bomb (Ex): Engineers are adept at swiftly building various volatile chemicals to create powerful bombs that they can hurl at their enemies. An engineer can use a number of bombs each day equal to his class level + his Intelligence modifier. Bombs are unstable, and if not used in the round they are created, they degrade and become inert—their method of creation prevents large volumes of explosive material from being created and stored. In order to create a bomb, the engineer must use a small vial containing an ounce of liquid catalyst—the engineer can create this liquid catalyst from small amounts of chemicals from an alchemy lab, and these supplies can be readily refilled in the same manner as a spellcaster's component pouch. Most engineers create a number of catalyst vials at the start of the day equal to the total number of bombs they can create in that day—once created, a catalyst vial remains usable by the engineer for years.
Drawing the components of, creating, and throwing a bomb requires a standard action that provokes an attack of opportunity. Thrown bombs have a range of 20 feet and use the Throw Splash Weapon special attack. Bombs are considered weapons and can be selected using feats such as Point-Blank Shot and Weapon Focus. On a direct hit, a bomb inflicts 1d6 points of fire damage + additional damage equal to his Intelligence modifier. The damage of an engineer's bomb increases by 1d6 points at every odd-numbered engineer level (this bonus damage is not multiplied on a critical hit or by using feats such as Vital Strike). Splash damage from a bomb is always equal to the bomb's minimum damage (so if the bomb would deal 2d6+4 points of fire damage on a direct hit, its splash damage would be 6 points of fire damage). Those caught in the splash damage can attempt a Reflex save for half damage. The DC of this save is equal to 10 + 1/2 the engineer's level + his Intelligence modifier.
Engineers can learn new types of bombs as Engineer Talents (see below) as they level up. An engineer's bomb becomes inert if used or carried by anyone else.
Engineer's Lore: At 1st level, an engineer selects one Craft skill that he specializes in. He adds 1/2 his level as a competence bonus to that Craft skill and to Knowledge (engineering) checks (minimum +1).
Trapfinding: An engineer adds 1/2 his level to Perception skill checks made to locate traps and to Disable Device skill checks (minimum +1). He can use Disable Device to disarm magic traps.
Bonus Feat: An engineer chooses Exotic Weapon Proficiency (siege weapons only), Gunsmithing, or Throw Anything, and gains it as a bonus feat.
Engineer Talent: At 2nd level and every two levels thereafter, an engineer gains an engineering talent of his choice (see below). An engineer cannot select an individual trick more than once.
I can understand wanting your bombs to be unique, but fire actually makes more sense as a nonmagical thing than anything else. In the real world, the main problem with trying to make a molotov cocktail is that I rarely see glass bottles to put the gasoline in these days. Maybe acid would work, but I'd think that would be even more of an alchemist thing.
I disagree with dropping the Will save; instead, I think the Fort should drop. In this case I'm seeing the class as doing some wizardy things, and generally not on the front line. The only time an engineer should be on the front line is when he or she is defining it (and mining it to hell).
Traps would be very in-line with this sort of class, come to think of it. Everyone loves punji pits.
I'm OK with the suggested weapon list; nets are kind'a in-theme. I might also add shortsword and handaxe (these aren't exactly overpowering weapons; ask a rogue), and maybe a warhammer (this one's pushing it though). Siege weapons are OK too, since that's a lot of what an engineer might do.
Come to think of it, if you're going to go the siege engine route, you'll need to address the whole crew issue. No man is a battery.
The idea of set feats as a progression has been done, and it's not a bad idea to help keep things focussed. Of all the complaints about stock monks, I haven't seen one aimed at their bonus feat list. (Yet.)
You're going to have to determine just how the 'spells' or 'devices' interact with popular ways of avoiding them. Including ways to get around them. What happens when you want to get rid of that engineer's grease? Can you dispel magic it? Will you need a new spell? What about engineers who want to make other battlefield controls go away? How would they do that?
One thing that might help is to imagine what he or she would do in a battle. And come up with various kinds. Look for things that match what he or she should be doing in this role--and this does include 'die messily' if the scenario is 'facing an angry charging barbarian when the field isn't mined to hell and back'. No class is perfect. (Remember, that barbarian can't charge across all the difficult terrain you're supposed to be creating as an engineer!)
For this theme, I think Perception DOES fit, as well as UMD; yes, it's a pair of skills so beloved they always show up in build guides, but this class does seem to be the one to tinker them. Linguistics? Not so much. Same as Knowledge (Arcana); there's lots of stuff you'll want to attack with a catapult. As far as trying to be the party face? Um ... no. The only use of Linguistics in that case is to be understood. At least there aren't other social skills cluttering things up; none of them really fit the type.
Unless you want to add Perform (acoustic guitar) and Craft (more gun).
You may want to check out the Steamwright class in Thunderscape. Really, everything in that book is pretty awesome, but the Steamwright in particular seems similar to what you want.
You could probably also lift some things off the Golemoid, Mechamage, and Thunder Scout.