Martials who get OK things


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

101 to 120 of 120 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | next > last >>
RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

This sounds like a form of daily retraining to adapt to a specific situation.

I'm definitely okay with that. Very similar to prepping spells for the day.

It would probably work best if the different 'schemes' or persona or whatever were gained over several levels, maybe at 1st, and then every time Bravery increased.

I used the Martial Mastery route. Bravery times/day, you can gain # of feats = Bravery bonus. These extra feats stick around until you use the ability to change them again.
You also get the ability to change them once with your morning exercises.
So, it was 'prepping feats' and 'swapping feats', from the combat and 'training' lists. Since it allowed you to make fairly major shifts in skills via stacking skill-based feats, you could readily shift your Fighter's focus between in and out of combat easily.

These were 'normal' feats...the feats he got by fighter level advancement were techniques and much stronger. But they were really all he needed to be able to really shift to cover specific situations, and without the time limit of a brawler or whatever, could apply to longer lasting situations.

==Aelryinth

Community Manager

Removed some unhelpful posts and reponses—be civil, thank you!


Whenever I see Liz or Chris has posted on one of these threads, I kind of stiffen, thinking, Oh geez, I'm gonna have to update my Index if this thread gets locked.

Guys, keep it chill. I'm really lazy.


Shame on you.

Kobolds are evil, but they're supposed to be really industrious.


You think he's LAWFUL?!?!?


No I just expect him to work really hard like a good Kobold slave... I mean citizen.

Liberty's Edge

2 people marked this as FAQ candidate. 1 person marked this as a favorite.

So...my Fighter, Rogue, and Monk fixes are below. The Fighter fix is much more extensive (and bleeds over into the ACG Classes with Fighter elements...I can expound on that if anyone's interested) mostly because they didn't update it for Unchained. The Monk fix might get significantly updated or modified at some point.

Fighter: The Fighter receives 4 + Intelligence modifier skill points per level. They receive Knowledge (Local), Perception, and Sense Motive as additional class skills as well as a Good Will Save Progression. They do not possess the Bravery Class Feature, receiving the following features instead:

Man of the World (Ex): At 1st level, a Fighter defines his role in the world outside of combat, whether as simple farmer, gladiatorial champion, professional soldier, or pampered aristocrat. He picks one skill to add to his class skill list, and then selects one skill from that newly expanded skill list. When using this skill, the Fighter may add a +1 bonus. At 5th level, and every 5 levels thereafter they may apply this bonus to an additional Class Skill, and the bonus increases by an additional +1, to a maximum of +5 (and five skills effected) at 20th level.
Trained Reflexes (Ex): Starting at 2nd level, a fighter gains a +1 bonus on Initiative checks. This bonus increases by +1 for every four levels beyond 2nd.
Quick Healer (Ex): At 3rd level, whenever the Fighter is subject to magical healing that cures hit point damage, he heals 1 additional point of damage per Fighter level he possesses. Additionally, he heals double the normal amount of hit point and ability damage per day of natural healing or from uses of the Heal skill. This ability does not affect fast healing or regeneration.
Martial Mastery (Ex): At 4th level, each combat feat the Fighter has that applies to a specific weapon (e.g., Weapon Focus) can be used with all weapons in the same weapon group.
Courageous (Ex): At 6th level, a Fighter reduces the severity of all fear effects that are applied to him by one degree (so shaken effects go away, frightened effects are reduced to shaken, and panicked effects are reduced to frightened). The conditions still technically retain their normal severity for stacking purposes (and only for stacking).
Mobile Warrior (Ex): At 8th level, a Fighter gains a +10 foot bonus to movement speed, and may make 10 foot steps instead of 5 foot steps whenever a 5 foot step would ordinarily be allowed. He may also make 5 foot (though not 10 foot) steps in difficult terrain.
Resilience (Ex): At 10th level, a Fighter can shake off the physical effects of certain attacks. If he makes a Fortitude saving throw against an attack that has a reduced effect on a successful save, he instead avoids the effect entirely.
Always Ready (Ex): At 12th level, the Fighter can always act in a surprise round even if he does not notice his enemies, though he remains flat-footed until he acts.
Indomitable Will (Ex): At 14th level, a Fighter gains a +4 bonus on Will saves to resist enchantment spells. This bonus stacks with all other modifiers, and this feature is identical to the Barbarian Class Feature of the same name.
Warrior's Eye (Ex): At 16th level, the Fighter is constantly aware of the battle prowess of those around him, as well as their current health, from subtle cues of movement and expression, and knows both the Base Attack Bonus and current Hit Points of all people he can see.
Combat Mastery (Ex): At 18th level, a Fighter is never considered an unaware combatant and is never considered flat-footed (though he may still lose his Dex bonus to Armor Class). Additionally, he is considered to always roll a 20 on initiative checks.

Archetypes that replace Bravery, replace the Trained Reflexes Class Feature instead.

The Unbreakable Fighter gains Improved Resilience on Fortitude Saves at 13th, as Resilience stacks with Stalwart.

Lore Wardens replace Quick Healer and all instances of Armor Training with their listed Maneuver Mastery progression. They replace Trained Reflexes with Expertise, Courageous with Know Thy Enemy (which they receive at 6th level), Resilience with Hair’s Breadth (which they receive at 10th), and Indomitable Will with Swift Lore.

Monk: Monks use the stats provided for the Unchained Monk, but retain their Good Will Save progression.

Monks can recover Ki via meditation, at a rate of their Wisdom modifier in points per hour.

All Archetypes are allowed, with those that replace Still Mind receiving whatever ability replaces it at 4th level, and those that replace nonexistent Class Abilities or others that have been moved costing Ki Powers within one level of the ability they replace (you get the ability when you lose the Ki Power). Abilities replacing Flurry of Blows may change and are handled on a case-by-case basis.

Rogue: All Rogues use the statistics shown by the Unchained Rogue, and they receive an additional instance of Rogue’s Edge at 1st level. Ninjas also do so, though they continue to replace the Class Features they usually replace.

Rogues receive the following Class Feature:

Rogue’s Expertise: At 1st level, the Rogue gains a +1 bonus to all skills in which she possesses Rogue’s Edge. At 5th level, and every 5 levels thereafter, this bonus increases by an additional +1, to a maximum of +5 at 20th level.

Trapfinding explicitly allows the Rogue to find and disable spells that are left in place, such as Magic Mouth or Sepia’s Snake Sigil. The DC to find a spell not listed as a trap is 20+Caster Level, and the DC to disable is 25+Caster Level. No XP is inherently received for disarming such spells.

The Ki Pool Rogue Trick grants a full, Ninja-sized, Charisma-based, Ki Pool with all the appropriate uses (and remains available). On the other hand, Ninjas may buy Evasion as a normal Ninja Trick, not an advanced one, and Rogue and Ninja tricks are more or less interchangeable (as are the advanced versions). Rogue Ki is often called Guile instead, but is mechanically identical.

The Swashbuckler Archetype receives any one Combat Feat instead of only being limited to Martial Weapon Proficiency.


Deadmanwalking wrote:

Resilience (Ex): At 10th level, a Fighter can shake off the physical effects of certain attacks. If he makes a Fortitude saving throw against an attack that has a reduced effect on a successful save, he instead avoids the effect entirely.

I know you said something about Stalwart later, but how come a caster (inquisitor) gets Stalwart, but not a fighter type? It would make sense for a Fighter to get it as part of their base progression.

I really like the 10-foot step thing.

I was thinking that Rogues could get a Swashbuckler-type stacking AC bonus. Maybe(?) also bonus Sneak Attack damage if they only take one sneak attack in the round. So at 1st level, Sneak Attacking is normal, at 8th (when you get your first iterative) you can make a single sneak attack for +1d6/level as a standard action instead of +1d6/2 levels. At 15th, it becomes +3d6/2 levels as a standard action.


It might be edifying to look at Tales of Maj Eyal.

It has martial abilities that, in Pathfinder terms, would translate to things like:

Once per encounter, for ~level/3 turns you cannot die and your health cannot drop below 1. Or maybe level/6 since ToME fights tend to be longer than Pathfinder fights.

Once per encounter when reduced below half your max HP get fast healing equal to to your level for 8 turns.

Stunning fist with weapons using your strength to set the DC.

As a standard action enter a stance for a round per level that gives you a miss chance against *everything*. Yes, even space filling area attacks.

Once per encounter true strike for all your attacks for the round as a swift action.

Move as a free action after dropping an enemy.

Perform combat maneuvers with ranged weapons.

Shoot down a projectile for an AoO. (most spells in ToME are projectiles)

Vault over an enemy at the start of a straight line move action.

Automatically gain AC when surrounded.

Every turn have about a 20% chance of removing a detrimental effect (not a new save, just flat out remove it) scaling upwards at higher levels.

Their (non-supernatural) monk equivalent has things like:

Render an enemy incapable of taking any actions other than movement and basic attacks with an unarmed strike.

Jump-charge-whirlwind attack combo.

Kick someone so hard they're effected as greater dispel magic.

The monk equivalent is slightly wuxia, but for all that some of the abilities are crazy powerful (like not dieing) none of them are blatantly supernatural if you accept that HP are a wonky abstraction that don't always (and indeed don't usually) actually translate into wounds.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber

I ended up doing an extensive set of Mundanes vs Magical updates for my campaign. I am working under the constraint that my group uses PCGen exclusively, so I can only change things I can homebrew into PCGen. Because of this, I am shooting to use the tools already at our disposal when possible, adding as few new things of my own as possible. All items are as implemented by Paizo unless noted. We also aren't playing with the new Advanced Class classes; just the archetypes and mechanics

Rogues:
* Get Signature Skills from Pathfinder Unchained
* Get Debilitating Injuries from Pathfinder Unchained
* Get Weapon Finesse as a Bonus Feat at Level 1
* May take the Combat Stamina Feat from Pathfinder Unchained at Level 2

Ninjas:
* Get Debilitating Injuries from Pathfinder Unchained
* May take the Combat Stamina Feat from Pathfinder Unchained at Level 2

Paladins, Barbarians, Antipaladins, and Rangers
* May take the Combat Stamina Feat from Pathfinder Unchained at Level 2

Gunslingers:
* Get the Combat Stamina Feat as a Bonus Feat at Level 1

Monks:
* Get full BAB as per Pathfinder Unchained
* Get full HD as per Pathfinder Unchained
* Get the modified flurry of blows from Pathfinder Unchained
* Get the Combat Stamina Feat as a Bonus Feat at Level 1
* May take Push The Limit as a Monk Bonus Feat at Level 1

Cavaliers:
* Get the Combat Stamina Feat as a Bonus Feat at Level 1
* Get Leadership as a Bonus Feat at Level 7, with the -2 penalty for having a Mount even if the Cavalier does not have a mount. A Cavalier only receives the cohort (frequently referred to as a Squire), and not followers. A Cavalier's squire must be another Cavalier (at least half of her levels in Cavalier, rounding up) of the same Order, though she may be of a different archetype. A Cavalier's squire receives the same amount of XP as the Cavalier. A squire who, in role-playing terms, has become a full Cavalier may still choose to continue working with the Cavalier under the same arrangement. If the squire dies or leaves the Cavalier's service, the Cavalier may opt to not take another squire, and instead receive a +2 bonus to a stat. Cavaliers that take the Ronin order simply gain a +2 to a stat at Level 7 instead of Leadership.

Samurai:
* Get the Combat Stamina Feat as a Bonus Feat at Level 1
* Get the Push The Limit as a Bonus Feat at Level 1
* Get Extra Stamina as a Bonus Feat at Level 7.
* Get Leadership as a Bonus Feat at Level 7, with the -2 penalty for having a Mount even if the Samurai does not have a mount. A Samurai only receives the cohort (frequently referred to as a Squire), and not followers. A Samurai's squire must be another Samurai(at least half of her levels in Samurai, rounding up) of the same Order, though she may be of a different archetype. A Samurai's squire receives the same amount of XP as the Samurai. A squire who, in role-playing terms, has become a full Samurai may still choose to continue working with the Samurai under the same arrangement. If the squire dies or leaves the Samurai's service, the Samurai may opt to not take another squire, and instead receive a +2 bonus to a stat. Samurai that take the Ronin order simply gain a +2 to a stat at Level 7 instead of Leadership

Fighters:
* Get the Combat Stamina Feat as a Bonus Feat at Level 1
* Get Extra Stamina as a Bonus Feat at Level 1
* Get Extra Stamina as a Bonus Feat at Level 7.
* Get Extra Stamina as a Bonus Feat at Level 13.
* Get Leadership as a Bonus Feat at Level 7.

NOTE: Fighters, Cavaliers, and Samurai are the only classes with access to Leadership in this system. Leadership is being treated as the Class Feature that it is. Similarly, Combat Stamina is being treated as a Class Feature, to an extent; only the classes listed above can access it.

TL;DR: I'm using Combat Stamina to give the Mundanes various levels of combat boosts, with Fighters as the masters of Combat Tricks, and letting the most martially of martials (Fighters, Cavaliers, and Samurai) have either squires or a support staff at later levels.

Liberty's Edge

My Self wrote:
I know you said something about Stalwart later, but how come a caster (inquisitor) gets Stalwart, but not a fighter type? It would make sense for a Fighter to get it as part of their base progression.

Eh. Fighters aren't thematically quite that strong-willed, and I think it makes them too powerful mechanically as compared to, say, Slayer when combined with my other changes

My Self wrote:
I really like the 10-foot step thing.

Me, too. I was very pleased when I came up with it. :)

My Self wrote:
I was thinking that Rogues could get a Swashbuckler-type stacking AC bonus.

I generally feel that Debilitating Injury does a pretty sufficient job in this regard, at least when combined with high Dex (which basically all Rogues should have).

My Self wrote:
Maybe(?) also bonus Sneak Attack damage if they only take one sneak attack in the round. So at 1st level, Sneak Attacking is normal, at 8th (when you get your first iterative) you can make a single sneak attack for +1d6/level as a standard action instead of +1d6/2 levels. At 15th, it becomes +3d6/2 levels as a standard action.

Eh. I allow people to move and make two attacks with TWF, which makes this less of an issue and doesn't seem to unbalance much of anything.


Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber
Deadmanwalking wrote:
My Self wrote:
I know you said something about Stalwart later, but how come a caster (inquisitor) gets Stalwart, but not a fighter type? It would make sense for a Fighter to get it as part of their base progression.
Eh. Fighters aren't thematically quite that strong-willed, and I think it makes them too powerful mechanically as compared to, say, Slayer when combined with my other changes

yes they are, outside DnD inspired stuff, they are the ones that constantly resist the foul mental attacks of the enemy.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

to be more accurate, they TRY to resist the foul mental attacks of the enemy. It should be noted that Conan never won a mental contest with Thoth Amon...but Thoth got interrupted by Conan's allies every time (fatally, the last time).

Say, Deadman, I've seen those fixes before. :) You should probably post some of your house rule changes that apply, also.

==Aelryinth

Liberty's Edge

Bandw2 wrote:
yes they are, outside DnD inspired stuff, they are the ones that constantly resist the foul mental attacks of the enemy.

Well, that's why I gave them a Good Will Save. Stalwart is a bit beyond that, and is available to the Unbreakable archetype anyway.

Aelryinth wrote:
to be more accurate, they TRY to resist the foul mental attacks of the enemy. It should be noted that Conan never won a mental contest with Thoth Amon...but Thoth got interrupted by Conan's allies every time (fatally, the last time).

Well, Conan's pretty clearly a Slayer (possibly with a Barbarian dip) rather than a Fighter, so perhaps not the best example...Slayers have low Will Saves, after all.

Aelryinth wrote:
Say, Deadman, I've seen those fixes before. :)

Well, yes. :)

Aelryinth wrote:
You should probably post some of your house rule changes that apply, also.

I already mentioned allowing moving and two attacks from TWF. Most of my other house rules aren't hugely relevant to my Class fixes (though allowing Cha instead of Wis on Will Saves does help Fighters and Rogues a bit, I suppose).


Just a minor correction. Boba Fett survives the Sarlacc.


Clerics are martials who get pretty ok things. Sure, they're 3/4 BAB, but the domain powers and channeling, as well as the limited spellcasting make up for it pretty nicely. At most levels where their BAB falls below a full BAB class, they can get a self buff that helps overcome it for a limited time. And they can invest in Strength like full BAB classes without suffering too greatly for their spellcasting. Just a shame that their 3/4 BAB and slow feat progression means they miss out on all the feat timing and quantity that a Fighter would get, for example.


My fighters get 4 skillpoints per level.

Combat stamina.

Every rank of Vital strike free at the appropriate levels.

May trade Bravery for Iron will, Lightning reflexes, Great Fortitude, Combat expertise or power attack.

.

My fighter players are pretty well off with that.


John Lynch 106 wrote:
Every character gets feats. By this logic every character is complex.

I said "feat chains", not just feats. There are no complex chains so go through to get to Natural Spell or Spell Focus.

_
glass.

101 to 120 of 120 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | next > last >>
Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / General Discussion / Martials who get OK things All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.
Recent threads in General Discussion