[Rise of the Runelords] Gestalt build help


Advice


Hello Paizo boards. I have have to come to call upon the knowledge of all you geniuses. I am in a two player game of Rise of the Runelords and have already started and my character is doing well. However the second player is terribly weak so I am looking for an over powered gestalt build. Gestalt is legal in my game but the second player is choosing not to do so because it is "cheating" and would ruin the character even though they have nearly no backstory. I want to be able to hold my own in combat singlehandidly because the other player is not much use. Also, I am a decent beginner so the more you can spell out the better.


I'm not sure this is a great idea, and I don't have experience with gestalts. Probably others will help you more, although they'll probably need some extra info, like which class are you and which class is your team mate. But you should aim to something with a Pet, viability in hand to hand combat, posibility to heal out of combat with wands at the very least, and some magic ability to reinforce it. Druids, Rangers, Clerics, Oracle, Summoners can help, that would be my first instinct.

But I'd not go Gestalt unless everybody in the game is Gestalt, and I would ask the GM to have an open and friendly debate about how the game is going to be played. If he's not reducing the difficulty level for 2 players, then he should *really* suggest the other player to get a gestalt himself too. Other options include to level up the players much more than normal, reduce the CR (but it requires extensive preparation time in some cases, as some enemies will have to be rebuilt from scratch), find another player, or use NPC cohorts to fill up spots.

I'm the GM in a 3 player game in a RotRL/Shattered Star combo AP, and so far they have done well. They have 25 point builds, and have used some NPC help in some different scenarios, specially Ameiko and Shalelu have helped in different encounters.


I would second that some more details would be useful: specifically, what the two of you are playing and your levels. I would definitely not recommend gestalt, unless you have a good deal of system mastery, as it is far too easy to build a character on a specific combination of abilities that you think works a certain way, but in actuality does not.

I would recommend that you consider that your teammate/friend might be playing what I call the long game of character design: He's planning for level 10+, when he will be super awesome (you often see this in arcane casters). With it just being the two of you, I would recommend that you phrase your suggestion to something more along the lines of asking him what he wants to do with his character and then offering suggestions on different ways to get there. Since he's made it clear that he has no desire to gestalt, I would definitely not broach that subject again. Find out what he wants his character to do/focus on, and suggest ways that his character might benefit from early on that a he might have missed. I would also point out that ROtRL is much more than just combat. It's one of the more varied styles of adventure paths. Your friend might bring things to the table that your group will need in order to survive outside of combat.

tl:dr have a frank but respectful conversation with your friend and make supportive suggestions about his build will help you a great deal in the long run.

The Exchange

I'd say just roll a druid so there's more targets on the battlefield for baddies to aim for. Note that if you create an overpowered character, and he does not, he's going to feel very left out. Since there are no real consequences to getting killed, just limit yourself to CRB, and when you two do get yourselves killed, tell him why it happened, ask the GM to let you each run two characters. Explain to him it's an AP and a certain amount of competency is expected.


Make a Druid/Summoner, build the eidolon to fill whatever skill roles the other guy can't, command the eidolon to follow his orders (so he gets to control it), voila every problem solved. You get a 4 entity party, cover essential spells/skills, and make him effectively gestalt without changing his concept.

Or you could talk it over...

The Exchange

*fails a will save against cheese*

Actually for real SAD, do a lunar oracle / summoner gesalt. Now the only stat you need is cha! And be half elf/half orc or human so you can use the human fcb for bonus spells, oh you might want to be human for bonus feat since lunar mystery has a revelation to let you see in darkness. Oh god...all the cheese came out :(

Grand Lodge

A Halfling Beastmaster Ranger//Warpriest mounted build. Ride a giant gecko levels 1-4 and take a dire bat levels 5+.

Same attributes, scaling weapon damage, awesome buffs, good pool of skills, flight, very hard hitting.

Make people respect Halflings again with this build of Mounted monstrosity.

For your friend I recommend a Grippli Shaman with slumber hex or a ___ witch with the same hex. Hexes will help being an infinite resource to use. Since 2 characters you will need to conserve resources. If you go grippli you can climb with the gecko Rider and go anywhere. Plus free net profiency...entangled is a good debuff and early game can really make a difference against the right foes. And casters hate nets.


If he really dislikes it, ask him to play two characters instead - and point out that most APs, as written, are meant for four characters anyway.


Just A Mort wrote:

*fails a will save against cheese*

Actually for real SAD, do a lunar oracle / summoner gesalt. Now the only stat you need is cha! And be half elf/half orc or human so you can use the human fcb for bonus spells, oh you might want to be human for bonus feat since lunar mystery has a revelation to let you see in darkness. Oh god...all the cheese came out :(

Shall I get you a towel?

Human with Noble Scion of War, keeping the options of an Eldritch Heritage and the... (shudder) Divine Protection feat to go with Prophetic Armour, for maximum charismatic SADness.

Alternatively, there's talking to the GM about adjusting encounters to suit the reduced APL, talking to the other guy about the 4-5 player 'as written' AP and taking a collaborative approach to overcoming the difficulty. That could work as well.

The Exchange

Biped eidolon, make him take additional traits and get that trapfinding trait from Mummy's mask sometime during the campaign. Get that biped eid to serve as party scout, give him a reach weapon, combat reflexes and power attack, he should be able to defend you quite handily.

Your stats you can have like 16 str, 10 dex, 14 con, 10 wis, 10 int, 16 cha, if you want to use form of the beast revelation in the future (there are some cool beastshapes like gorgon for petrify breath, kamadan for sleep breath (comes with flight), chimera if you want to beat stuff up). If you don't intend to use that revelation, you can switch str and int.

Or go full caster start with 18 cha, fool around with touch of the moon revelation.

Summoner gets all knowledges as class skill so it could be pretty skill monkey ish with 8 skill points per level if starting as human.

Other fun gesalt combos:
Zen archer/evangelist cleric (feather domain)- I wonder how much you do on a full attack with bard song and divine favour on...

Monk/Empyreal sorcerer - A monk with stoneskin and mirror image? And full 9th level arcane casting? OMG!

Sylvan sorcerer/lunar oracle - 2 animal companions, 9th level slots for divine and arcane spells.

Shaman/Empyreal sorcerer - 9th level casting for both divine and arcane, and an endless supply of slumber hexes! Gonna suck at low levels, though.

Yes please, on towel...I thought I was over my cheese addiction but it appears I still have relapses.

Ahhh oh god...the cheese...the cheese, its eating my brain!


The other player is an aquatic sorcerer who is an undine. Besides the other player has a 50/50 chance of quitting if her character dies. I am using a brawler monk, all credit to wiggz, with cleric on the other end.


Wow.
So the other player refuses to use what the GM has given to the group to even the low PC numbers, but threaten to quita if he dies.
Blackmailing much, Mrs Drama Queen?

Grand Lodge

Quote:
The other player is an aquatic sorcerer who is an undine.

Lots of Water in this campaign....oh wait...nvm....this has a lot of dungeon diving and little aquatic theme....

I'll agree with the above.


The decision is that we will both have 2 ungestalted characters. We are instituting them now with only starting treasure to not disrupt the campaigns loot levels.

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