Alex Mack |
So how do you? Hit things with a big stick with 1 1/2 times your STR bonus and +3 damage per power attack ratio at your Full BAB. Twice per round!
Flurry of Blows to me is the most appealing part of the new Unchained monk, particularly when paired with a big stick. But I'm really struggling to but together a build that has a good to hit and solid defenses. I've been mulling this over quite a bit and haven't come to any conclusion. So I was hoping folks have some good ideas to share.
Going straight Unchained Monk and focusing on a weapon seems weak as all their abilities are designed to work around unarmed strikes. There's the ki something ability that you can slap on weapons to somewhat fix this but it comes on fairly late (at least when playing in the PFS level range) and costs a lot of cash just to be able to utilize your class abilities.
Dipping Bloodrager for access to spells and that nifty ability called rage all two handers love and that sweet furious enchantment. Also a free familiar.
Just dipping unchained monk. However this is easier said than done as unchained Monk comes with lots of restrictions (no armor, poor Wil save, need for high WIS). The best options I have found seems to be the Enlightend Paladin Archetype and the Bloodrager.
Also Crane Style seems like a good option for Sansetsukon Flurry but the to hit penalty really hurts your DPR numbers.
Ellioti |
maybe dip Crusader Cleric of whoever and get a nice reach weapon. I think Glaive, Ranseur and Halberd are all available.
AC Problems are usually solved by taking Barkskin as your first Ki Power.
Don't forget you can still do style strikes while weapon-flurrying. you just alternate kicks and weapon attacks.
Alex Mack |
Monk also has Reach weapons so dippig Cleric (which costs me BAB) for a better reach weapon prolly isn't worth while.
As to barkskin I already had that marked down as my 4st level power problem is I'm not seeing too many other Ki-Powers I'd want (mainly cause they all cost so much ki...).
Problem with alterating unarmed and regular attacks for style strikes is that I don't want to be shelling out cash for two magic items, plus weapon focus and spec are for naught. However if I pick up Imp. Trip this might give me a bit more out of an unarmed attack than merely an attack when using flying kick.
Here's a build outline for a straight unchained Monk with a bloodrager dip. My biggest problem being that all options seem to attempt to push me towards using my fists while I'd prefer to stick with a big stick.
Weapon Adept Unchained Monk X + Bloodrager 1 (Contact Specialist with bloodline familiar)
STR 18 DEX 14 CON 12 INT 12 WIS 14 CHA 7
Traits: Deathtouched, Open Trait
1 Monk Combat Reflexes, Power Attack, Open Feat
2 Bloodrager, Imp Trip, Hedgehog Protector Familiar
3 Monk WF(Sansetsukon), Dodge, Extra Rage
5 Open Feat, Barkskin
7 Weapon Spec, Imp Grapple/Horn of Criosphinx, Open Feat, Open Ki Power
9 Improved Critical/ Open Ki Power
10 2nd Style Strike: Foot Stomp?
11 Critical Focus/ Open Ki Power
For feats I have a few ideas but none of them make me truly happy:
The 6th level bonus feat would be either Horn of the Criosphinx (meh as I don't want to charge all that often and instead use flying kick) or improved Grapple (I'd prefer to cave in skulls than rolling around in the dirt...)
Crane Style: with Sansetsukon it offers +5 to AC but the -2 to hit really hurts damage output very badly.
Bodyguard could come in handy as a way of tanking with Crane Style.
Vicious Stomp/Combat Expertise/Greater Trip: Biggest issue here is that I need 13 INT also vicious stomp always relies on unarmed Strikes.
Combat Expertise/Blind Fight/Moonlit Stalker: Again this requires that pesky 13 INT plus I'd have to rely on Mistmail for concealment. That might be pushing it a bit.
Gwen Smith |
What bonus are you looking for out of the bloodrager dip? I think if you're concerned about your AC, skipping rage would be the best option. You also might want to check with your GM about whether using ki powers counts as "requiring concentration".
If you want to flurry with a reach weapon and can't find a monk weapon to accommodate you, you can take a cleric dip (Crusader archetype), and pick up Weapon Focus and Crusader's Flurry: flurry with your deity's favored weapon. (Warpriest would also qualify, but you'd need enough levels to get channel.) Weapon Focus would help make up for the -1 BAB, your spells would be Wisdom based, and you'd be able to cast from scrolls from first level.
claudekennilol |
I've got a half-orc sacred fist I'm working on that (will) flurry with a falchion. I'm level one right now and won't get to flurry with the falchion til lvl 2.
I'm taking the first level as sacred fist and the second as crusader cleric. Then I'm retraining my first feat (toughness) into Crusader's Flurry. After that the rest of the levels go back into warpriest. When I hit lvl 5 (so sacred fist 4/cleric crusader 1), I'm going to retrain my cleric level into a fighter level.
I could just train out of crusader cleric at 4 (right before I level up and hit 5) and take my level 5 feat as weapon focus to still qualify for crusader's flurry, but I want something that will give me armor proficiency. At sacred fist 4 I'll meet the prereqs of both channel/flurry in one class. So the fighter level will give me an extra bab, heavy armor proficiency, and an extra hp.
Charon's Little Helper |
Actually - a weapon wielding monk - unlike an unarmed one - might not need to take Barkskin. Barkskin is usually required due to their neck slot being taken up with an Amulet of Mighty Fists. Though of course - a STR monk will never have the crazy good AC that a DEX monk can get.
Mage Armor can help early. With just a decent 14 dex & wis - you'd have an AC of 18 to start off. 19 if you grab Dodge as a bonus feat. Not anything to write home about, but decent.
As you level, you basically have an extra AC item versus a standard martial (Headband of Wisdom) and while you'll want a STR belt, you can eventually grab the ioun stone to give +2 dex. In addition, you'll get that extra +1 every 4 levels.
Basically - you'll be competitive with other two-handed martials who don't want to be slowed down by full-plate, probably a bit better once you get into mid levels.
Alex Mack |
What bonus are you looking for out of the bloodrager dip? I think if you're concerned about your AC, skipping rage would be the best option. You also might want to check with your GM about whether using ki powers counts as "requiring concentration".
+1 BAB
RageFree Imp. Trip.
A familiar, make that a hedgehog for +2 to WIL saves also make it a protector for a virtual +2 to AC thus no AC loss from the bloodrager dip
Access to mage armor, Long Arm, Enlarge Person and Shield via wands.
Ki powers and concentration might be an issue but which would I want to activate during combat? Also this is for PFS so I prefer to err on the safe side rules wise.
Regarding the Cleric Dip. The thing is I was already gonna take Weapon Focus no matter what (and actually the Weapon Adept hands it out for free along with Weapon Specialization) so picking up weapon focus is not equal to +1 BAB for such a build. Still a Cleric dip does grant me acess to Divine Favor, which is a considerable boon, and the reach weapons a monk has access to are sort of cruddy and poorly worded. However the monk dip doesn't grant me access to Mage armor and having that on my spell list is a pretty big deal.
Anywas thanks for your feedback so far. I was really super focused on going with the Sansetsukon as stats wise it's superior to other monk weapons but a reach weapon might actually make more sense and reduce the need for a high AC. Then again a reach weapon doesn't work too well with flying kick.
Alex Mack |
Basically - you'll be competitive with other two-handed martials who don't want to be slowed down by full-plate, probably a bit better once you get into mid levels.
Some sound advice which makes me feel slightly better about forgoing Crane Style. Still why not Barkskin though? I'm really not seeing (m)any Ki-Powers that seem overly attractive and the amulet of natural armor doesn't come cheap (a +2 is already 8k). Wouldn't they stack anyhow?
Renegadeshepherd |
one of the better ways to get the most out of it is to be a cleric of Shizuru (1 level) and crit fish with your 18-20 or eventually 15-20 katana. Combine with weapon adept monk and you get a ton of "fighter" feats for free and your making the fighter look weak really fast. I once figured that a monk using this strategy had more feats than the vanilla fighter class (let that sink in)
Essentially your character has no weakness as spell like abilities make up for them so that you are always useful. You may not be as good as another guy but believe me it works.
Charon's Little Helper |
Charon's Little Helper wrote:Basically - you'll be competitive with other two-handed martials who don't want to be slowed down by full-plate, probably a bit better once you get into mid levels.Some sound advice which makes me feel slightly better about forgoing Crane Style. Still why not Barkskin though? I'm really not seeing (m)any Ki-Powers that seem overly attractive and the amulet of natural armor doesn't come cheap (a +2 is already 8k). Wouldn't they stack anyhow?
Barkskin isn't a bad ki power choice for a weapon wielding monk - it's just not required like it is for an unarmed one. It would save you some gold you'd otherwise spend on the amulet and free up your neck slot, but it'd use up a couple of ki each day to keep up whenever you're in a dangerous area.
And no - they don't stack. While base natural armor and natural armor enchantments stack with each-other - both Barkskin and the AoNA are natural armor enchantments and therefore do not stack.
Alex Mack |
one of the better ways to get the most out of it is to be a cleric of Shizuru (1 level) and crit fish with your 18-20 or eventually 15-20 katana. Combine with weapon adept monk and you get a ton of "fighter" feats for free and your making the fighter look weak really fast. I once figured that a monk using this strategy had more feats than the vanilla fighter class (let that sink in)
Compared to the Sansetsukon which is also 1d10 with 19-20 Crit Range the DPR increase of the Katana doesn't seem worth the dip, a Fauchard could be nice however.
With SLA I assume you are referring to Qigong powers? Which of those would folks recommend besides Barkskin?
Alex Mack |
I suppose as a Monk/Bloodrager, you'll probably be able to use Blooded Arcane Strike, and have Arcane Strike scale with your Monk level (Qinggong spell-like abilities). Seems like it might be worth the two feats.
Hmm so at level 6 those two feats become weapon specialization for all my attacks. Bet there's worse feats out there. Also I don't see myself using swift actions that much so Arcane Strike by itself might also be worth while.
My Self |
My Self wrote:I suppose as a Monk/Bloodrager, you'll probably be able to use Blooded Arcane Strike, and have Arcane Strike scale with your Monk level (Qinggong spell-like abilities). Seems like it might be worth the two feats.Hmm so at level 6 those two feats become weapon specialization for all my attacks. Bet there's worse feats out there. Also I don't see myself using swift actions that much so Arcane Strike by itself might also be worth while.
Monk ki powers will eat your swift actions alive.
Actually, wait, Arcane Strike might not scale with Monk, depending on the current status of spell-like abilities interacting with Arcane Strike. You might not even be able to pick it up until Bloodrager 4 (which probably won't happen).
BadBird |
At level 6, the Sohei Monk's Weapon Training feature will allow Flurry of Blows and ki strike unarmed effects to work with a Nodachi, and also qualifies for Gloves of Dueling's +2, which alone cancel out the -2 flurry of non-unchained. Sohei also gets half their level as a bonus on initiative instead of Stunning Fist. And they can branch into Mounted Skirmisher while making any mount powerful. It's a perfect made-to-order weapon-monk. Also, if you choose to go the mithril medium armor route with a Sohei, you can grab Quick Draw and a Quickdraw light shield.
One of the strangest Monk builds has to be a Sohei with a level of Dual Cursed Nature Oracle who dumps dex and ignores wisdom while flurrying with armor and defensive charisma and using the Misfortune Revelation.
The Kata Master is interesting in that they pick up a panache pool and the ability to use a Monk weapon for it. A dex-based Evangelist of Sarenrae 1/ Kata Master with Crusader's Flurry can use flurry of blows and parry and riposte with a Dervish Dance scimitar.
Another unusual option is to use the Monk of the Four Winds to make nasty Shaitan Style Elemental Fist strikes with a weapon. By 9 you can use Shaitan Skin to stagger foes with your acid-strikes. At 10, 10 times a day you can add (+3d6+5 acid), (+ reflex save or staggered even if you miss) to one attack per round. Dual Talent Human is kind of necessary for this one though, since you need to cover strength, wisdom and 15 constitution.
Alex Mack |
One of the strangest Monk builds has to be a Sohei with a level of Dual Cursed Nature Oracle who dumps dex and ignores wisdom while flurrying with armor and defensive charisma and using the Misfortune Revelation.
Hmm I hadn't thought about nature oracle up until now at all. That might work well with the Enlightened Paladin for double DEX to AC. Or is this not legit due to the double dipping on ability scores FAQ?
As to Sohei. Yeah it's awesome but it's also kind of a late bloomer and I'm building for PFS. Until level 6 the sohei's to hit would be trailing my above build by 4 points (-2 from Flurry, -2 from not having rage). It also lacks a Pounce mechanism and sucks hard on a standard action.
Also I checked the FAQ regarding Arcane Strike. It should work...
BadBird |
As to Sohei. Yeah it's awesome but it's also kind of a late bloomer and I'm building for PFS. Until level 6 the sohei's to hit would be trailing my above build by 4 points (-2 from Flurry, -2 from not having rage). It also lacks a Pounce mechanism and sucks hard on a standard action.
It's generally true that you're going to be taking off faster with the Bloodrager/UCM, and it's a really great combo. I would just note a few things about Sohei/Oracle1 -
The Ki Hurricane Power is awesome as a pounce, though the cost in Ki is harsh enough that you're pushing it to do it twice a day without some special Ki bonus. It contrasts with the fact that the Unchained Monk can't use swift-action Ki to make another weapon strike on a full attack the way a regular Monk can, since the UCM is restricted to unarmed strike for that function, making it a choice between a Hurricane or two a day vs. extra attacks more regularly.
Also, because they're not paying a TWF penalty, the regular Monk ironically isn't any worse on a standard until level 9, and then they're still only -1 on a standard by comparison until the end of PFS.
Since the Sohei w/ Nature Oracle dip can skew ability scores to start with 19/20 strength depending on how hard you want to min/max - Sohei's Devoted Guardian and high will save mean you can tank DEX and ignore WIS - you can have better inherent strength along with a mithril breastplate paired with 2+ charisma AC. Also, you can take the Fate's Favored trait to cast a +2/+2 Divine Favor on yourself when the opportunity presents itself. These may make it more bearable to be a regular Monk until you're suddenly get +3/+3 while flurrying a Nodachi.
As far as the whole Arcane Strike thing goes, you're looking at picking up an 'arcane' ki power plus two feats in order to get a minor damage bonus that may be 'controversial' in PFS. Crossing it with Riving Strike might make it worth it, but that's a third feat we're talking about now.
Charon's Little Helper |
I suppose as a Monk/Bloodrager, you'll probably be able to use Blooded Arcane Strike, and have Arcane Strike scale with your Monk level (Qinggong spell-like abilities).
SLAs don't apply to things such as Arcane Strike anymore since the FAQ a few months back. Same FAQ which got rid of early prestige entry.
Alex Mack |
My Self wrote:I suppose as a Monk/Bloodrager, you'll probably be able to use Blooded Arcane Strike, and have Arcane Strike scale with your Monk level (Qinggong spell-like abilities).SLAs don't apply to things such as Arcane Strike anymore since the FAQ a few months back. Same FAQ which got rid of early prestige entry.
Dang... back to the drawing board... I've been debating ditching Human for Half Orc with Sacred Tatoo/Fate's Favored and Die Hard. But then not having access to Divine Power really gets me itching. While Stalwart/Crane Style likely isn't worth while are there any other nice feats that require Die Hard? There's one that requires Fort +8 and lets you delay conditions that actually might be nice...
Since the Sohei w/ Nature Oracle dip can skew ability scores to start with 19/20 strength depending on how hard you want to min/max - Sohei's Devoted Guardian and high will save mean you can tank DEX and ignore WIS - you can have better inherent strength along with a mithril breastplate paired with 2+ charisma AC. Also, you can take the Fate's Favored trait to cast a +2/+2 Divine Favor on yourself when the opportunity presents itself. These may make it more bearable to be a regular Monk until you're suddenly get +3/+3 while flurrying a Nodachi.
Now you've got me interested... too bad you can't stack Irrepresible and Fate's Favored for saving throw madness...so assuming dual talented Human I guess you could try something like:
STR 20 DEX 7 CON 12 INT 10 WIS 10 CHA 16
Problem is you kinda need a 14 CON due to the D8 hit die... Problem is you start with a 0 BAB...
Alex Mack |
I think I've settled on a build. I fiddled around a bit with the Sohei/Nature Oracle but it really has problems getting going and doesn't really come together fully until level 7. The build below is rock solid starting level 2 but it might not be quite as powerful in the long run. Still the stats look really good even though precision isn't ideal once Crane Style is up. The old turtle argument that AC might be too high doesn't really count as I'm delivering damage similar to a TH Barbarian.
Half Orc Weapon Adept Unchained Monk 10 + Bloodrager 1 (Contact Specialist with bloodline familiar)
STR 18 (+1 +1) DEX 14 CON 12 INT 12 WIS 14 CHA 7
Traits: Deathtouched (+2 vs. mind affecting), Fate’s Favored
1 Monk1 Dodge, Crane Style
2 Bloodrager1, Imp Trip, Hedgehog Protector Familiar
3 Monk2 WF(Sansetsukon), Combat Reflexes , Extra Rage
5 Monk4 Power Attack, Barkskin Qigong Power
7 Monk6 Weapon Spec, Horn of Criosphinx, Extra Ki/, Furious Defense Ki-Power
9 Monk8 Improved Critical, Abundant Step Ki-Power
10 Monk9 2nd Style Strike: Foot Stomp?
11 Monk10 Critical Focus/ Monk Bonus Feat Open/ Restoration?
+ 1 Furios Ki Focus Wyrwood Sansetsukon
Belt of STR
Headband of Wisdom
Jingasa of the Fortunate Soldier
Ring of Protection
Wand of Mage Armor
Wand of Long Arm
Wand of Enlarge Person
Alex Mack |
Why not just use a temple sword or 9-ring and finish your Crane Style chain? You can two-hand during your normal attacks as long as you switch back to a one-handed grip at the end of your turn. You get a whole lot out of those two feats.
True I wasn't actually considering that. Seems a bit cheesy but legit by RAW. My main reasoning for going with the sansetsukon is the blocking property which gives me +1 AC with Crane Style. I'm not sure how important Wyrwood is but with Imp. Crit the Sansetsukon should likely be criting once each combat and my Ki-Pool isn't exactly the fattest so that's prolly a considerable boon. Also Cryosphinx requires a two handed weapon but that isn't a deal breaker.
Edit: The Nine section Whip is another option it's a blocking weapon. However it is made of steel so no Wyrwood.
Alex Mack |
Unchained's ki pool will seem extremely small once you start play as EVERYTHING wants you to spend a few points. Even if you use 0 ki powers, each Wyrwood crit is an additional ki for extra flurry attacks.
I'm actually not planning to use Ki for Extra Attacks too often before I get a Ki-Focus Weapon. But especially once I have that and Dimensional Door and Furious Defense I'll prolly be burning through Ki-Rather quickly...
graystone |
If you're at max ki, you might as well make an extra attack or use a ki power so a crit can fill it up. That way, crits = free attacks. it's a solid way to start off using a Wyrwood weapon. Once you've got more levels under your belt, all the nifty ki powers will make it so you don't have to worry about finding something to use ki on.
Alex Mack |
If you're at max ki, you might as well make an extra attack or use a ki power so a crit can fill it up. That way, crits = free attacks. it's a solid way to start off using a Wyrwood weapon. Once you've got more levels under your belt, all the nifty ki powers will make it so you don't have to worry about finding something to use ki on.
Thanks for the input. Guess I'll stick to the Wyroot Sansetsukon then...
Ryzoken |
Something to note: the extra flurry attack off of ki needs be an unarmed attack. So your (and my) Crane Style Setsukon monk will probably only use ki to power ki powers, and occasionally will take an extra unarmed strike to use your style strike.
I'm building mine to be tanky, so I'm actually NOT taking Flying Kick as my primary style strike, but am instead taking Foot Stomp to constrain enemy movement, letting me 'tank' for lower AC characters in my party. Otherwise, it's just the Crane Style line, Barkskin at 4, UMD and a wand of Mage Armor... the usual monk stuff.
AC 25 at level 3 if I get to swing my stick!
Note: Wyroot not legal for Society play.
Alex Mack |
Note: Wyroot not legal for Society play.
Ouch good to know... that might actually make the nine section whip and the additional Crane Style Feats the more attractive option. But that would sort of require Human for the bonus feat...decisions decisions.
I was aware that I can't get extra Sansetsukon attacks via Ki-Points without the Ki-Focus Weapon. My plan for tanking and flying kick was to mainly use the unarmed attacks for trips. Thus I can also somewhat constrain movement away from me.
Ryzoken |
Besides - Wyroot can't be used for a temple sword anyway - it only works for wooden weapons or weapons with wooden hafts. A sword is neither.
Sansetsukon.
Two handed, made of wooden hafts, carries the blocking property for Crane Style, same crit range as the temple sword.I was aware that I can't get extra Sansetsukon attacks via Ki-Points without the Ki-Focus Weapon. My plan for tanking and flying kick was to mainly use the unarmed attacks for trips. Thus I can also somewhat constrain movement away from me.
Trip goes versus CMD, which scales swiftly for many monsters, and gets additional bonuses if you're fighting something with more legs. Foot Stomp goes versus AC, which scales less well, and consumes your opponent's standard whereas trip consumes their move. Since Flying Kick early on is only giving you 10 feet of movement, it makes more sense to delay it to level 10 (where it gives more movement) and take Foot Stomp early on, as it is significantly superior to trip.
Alex Mack |
Trip goes versus CMD, which scales swiftly for many monsters, and gets additional bonuses if you're fighting something with more legs. Foot Stomp goes versus AC, which scales less well, and consumes your opponent's standard whereas trip consumes their move. Since Flying Kick early on is only giving you 10 feet of movement, it makes more sense to delay it to level 10 (where it gives more movement) and take Foot Stomp early on, as it is significantly superior to trip.
That makes a certain amount of sense. However I'm getting improved trip for free at Bloodrager level 1 at very low opportunity cost. Standing from prone and moving out of my threatened area uses a full round action and provokes 2 AoO. I feel like this sufficiently hinders movement. However it's not as broadly applicable as foot stomp.
Technically while flying kick at level 5 only covers 10 ft you can still take a 5 foot step so thats 15 ft. right there. And one level later it becomes 25 ft which to mee seem sufficient in most scenarios.
From experience with a Skirmisher Ranger I know how good movement (and be it only one extra 5 foot step) paired with a full attack is thus I really want it asap.
claudekennilol |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Technically while flying kick at level 5 only covers 10 ft you can still take a 5 foot step so thats 15 ft. right there. And one level later it becomes 25 ft which to mee seem sufficient in most scenarios.
From experience with a Skirmisher Ranger I know how good movement (and be it only one extra 5 foot step) paired with a full attack is thus I really want it asap.
I wouldn't let you 5' step and flying kick in the same round at my table.
Take 5-Foot Step
You can move 5 feet in any round when you don't perform any other kind of movement. Taking this 5-foot step never provokes an attack of opportunity. You can't take more than one 5-foot step in a round, and you can't take a 5-foot step in the same round that you move any distance.You can take a 5-foot step before, during, or after your other actions in the round.
You can only take a 5-foot-step if your movement isn't hampered by difficult terrain or darkness. Any creature with a speed of 5 feet or less can't take a 5-foot step, since moving even 5 feet requires a move action for such a slow creature.
You may not take a 5-foot step using a form of movement for which you do not have a listed speed.
The monk leaps through the air to strike a foe with a kick. Before the attack, the monk can move a distance equal to his fast movement bonus. This movement is made as part of the monk's flurry of blows attack and does not require an additional action. At the end of this movement, the monk must make an attack against an adjacent foe. This movement may be between attacks. This movement provokes an attack of opportunity as normal. The attack made after the movement must be a kick.
graystone |
WUsing weapon with unchained monk means sacrificing his most fun ability, namely style strike. I'm not sure it's worth it.
Not really, it means that you have to use an unarmed attack for ONE of your attacks. Not a big deal.
Note: Wyroot not legal for Society play: Didn't have a clue as I don't PFS. That's REALLY bad...
Something to note: the extra flurry attack off of ki needs be an unarmed attack: Sounds like the perfect attack to use with the style strike! :)
BadBird |
Seems a bit cheesy but legit by RAW. My main reasoning for going with the sansetsukon is the blocking property which gives me +1 AC with Crane Style. I'm not sure how important Wyrwood is but with Imp. Crit the Sansetsukon should likely be criting once each combat and my Ki-Pool isn't exactly the fattest so that's prolly a considerable boon. Also Cryosphinx requires a two handed weapon but that isn't a deal breaker.
Personally I think that fluidly switching your grip in combat is awesome martial artist flavor and totally 'realistic'. You're a Monk blocking and deflecting kung-fu style until there's an opening, when your form suddenly comes together to strike with two hands. It's certainly no more 'cheesy' than a Cleric with a light shield using free-action grip-changing to have a hand free to cast spells.
Do note that with a Wyroot weapon, your critical hits don't do any damage:
"When a weapon constructed of wyroot confirms a critical hit, it absorbs some of the life force of the creature hit. The creature hit is unharmed and the wyroot weapon gains 1 life point."
It's a great power to have in theory, but you have to consider if you want to see every crit you get do 0xdamage instead of 2xdamage. Also, it takes a swift action to move the ki from the weapon to you, so doing it in combat is a real nuisance.
graystone |
I always read that as the creature is unharmed by the draining of a life point, not the damage the weapons was doing. I never found the other reading as making much sense but if you read it that way then you just make it into a secondary weapon for yourself and go wild with coup de grace's after every fight and fill your pool that way.
EDIT: Here is the unofficial word of James Jacobs:
Menelmacar wrote:James, some questions about Wyroot (I hope you can help with that):
1) If I attack with a Wyroot Weapon and confirm a critical hit do I:
a) get to make normal weapon damage (including sneaks and stuff) and get my Ki/Arcane Pool point stored in the weapon
b) inflict critical weapon damage (including all other modifiers) and get my Ki/Arcane Pool point
c) inflict NO damage at all and only the Ki/Arcane Pool point
2) Do I get the Ki/Arcane Pool point when I Coup de Grace someone? I'm not really confirming a critical hit, I'm just dealing critical damage.
And if c) of Question 1 is right AND it works on CdG:
3) If I CdG someone, without dealing damage, must the victim do a Fort Save against DC 10+Damage (which would be 0 so DC 10) or die?
1) You inflict normal critical damage and the weapon absorbs 1 life point, that you can then absorb as a swift action to restore a ki point or arcane pool point. You don't have to take that swift action there and then. The weapon stores the life point until someone uses it.
2) Up to the GM. I'd say yes, though.
Alex Mack |
Thanks everyone for their input. There is so little on these boards on the unchained monk so this has been a big help to me.
I've been thinking that Lunge might be a very good option as the level 7 feat for the above build as it provides me with virtual movement when I need to finish a full attack after a flying kick, but Extra Ki-Points might also be required especially without Wyroot...
nicholas storm |
I've got a half-orc sacred fist I'm working on that (will) flurry with a falchion. I'm level one right now and won't get to flurry with the falchion til lvl 2.
I'm taking the first level as sacred fist and the second as crusader cleric. Then I'm retraining my first feat (toughness) into Crusader's Flurry. After that the rest of the levels go back into warpriest. When I hit lvl 5 (so sacred fist 4/cleric crusader 1), I'm going to retrain my cleric level into a fighter level.
I could just train out of crusader cleric at 4 (right before I level up and hit 5) and take my level 5 feat as weapon focus to still qualify for crusader's flurry, but I want something that will give me armor proficiency. At sacred fist 4 I'll meet the prereqs of both channel/flurry in one class. So the fighter level will give me an extra bab, heavy armor proficiency, and an extra hp.
Sacred fist just lost it's ability to flurry in armor from the ACG errata.
BadBird |
Sacred fist just lost it's ability to flurry in armor from the ACG errata.
That's slightly compensated for by the fact that they now get a proper dodge bonus from level instead of deflection... what really hurts is that they're no longer getting BAB=Level from flurry. Now that is a nerf with some horns.