Thor Odenson |
So i am making a character at level 11.
I considered ranger but the favored enemies and terrain would be lost in the campaign as they both vary greatly. Fighter just does not feel right for Guts either.
So a level 11 human barbarian. I want to try the unchained version of the barbarian but if it is considered worse by folks i an not married to the idea. The move action to go into a stance and slightly less damage from rage seem to be the down sides, but stances vs once a rage seems better.
Guts is very fast even in armor, i figured Mithral breastplate would be best. An adamantine greatsword is the closest to the dragon slayer as weapons can get.
Feats and rage powers are where i am kinda stumped.
Feats that i have are, Power Attack, Furious Focus, and Improved and Greater Sunder. Guts cuts through armor and weapons all the time, this is why i went with sunder.
the other 3 i keep going back and forth between.
Rage powers i have Powerful stance, Shove aside, and Bleeding blow. The Shove aside and the other 2 i am also flip flopping on.
Magic items i am fairly happy with. and my stat array before magic is
STR 18, DEX 14, CON 16, INT 10, WIS 11, CHA 7
kyrt-ryder |
A friend made such character but was displeased after prolonged play. The problem was that Guts is antisocial character, so besides combat, there was nothing else for him to do. A thought to ponder on.
Adam
I've played a character that was heavily inspired by Guts. Intimidate can contribute to social encounters without having a social personality.
Then there's also the fact that Guts goes through phases of anti-social and closed-social-circles. You don't have to present him as an archloner.
kyrt-ryder |
You could also go bigger and make the blade a large bastard sword. Like the Iconic.
This is why I asked about sources available.
Because to do Guts right, requires a massive blade. Fullblade from 3.0 or Mighty Sword from Tripod Machine's 3rd Party Pathfinder supplement Fistful of Denarii.
Ideally he's got some way of wielding one a size larger than himself Half-Giant [which segues very well into a Psychic Warrior approach] or Lighten Weapon from Kobold Press will pull it off. [If you have a lot of combat feats, such as a Fighter approach, Improved Lighten Weapon removes the penalty to hit.]
kyrt-ryder |
That Effortless Lace does go really well with the Lighten Weapon feat above, saving you a feat slot on the improved version [if the lace is sundered or dispelled you can still wield the weapon it's on, you just take a -2 to hit.]
Bear in mind a Mighty Sword/Full Blade of Large Size deals 4d6 base damage. If you get enlarged that becomes 6d6.
Dekalinder |
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You ain't playing Guts if you don't have favored enemy(evil outsiders, undead).
And if fighter does not feel right for you, then you need to reread the manga more accurately. He is first and foremost a fighter, then a ranger, and only from times to times he rages.
Guts to me has always been barbarian 2/ ranger 5/ fighter all the way up.
I can even give you a chronology of the way he picked up his levels.
If you can use 3.5 things, than i definetly suggest picking Occult Slayer for him.
kyrt-ryder |
You ain't playing Guts if you don't have favored enemy(evil outsiders, undead).
And if fighter does not feel right for you, then you need to reread the manga more accurately. He is first and foremost a fighter, then a ranger, and only from times to times he rages.
** spoiler omitted **Guts to me has always been barbarian 2/ ranger 5/ fighter all the way up.
I can even give you a chronology of the way he picked up his levels.
** spoiler omitted **If you can use 3.5 things, than i definetly suggest picking Occult Slayer for him.
If you're doing this mightn't he have picked up his first level of Barbarian during the Golden Era, while his berserker side/inner beast was cultivating?
Thor Odenson |
Are you restricted to Paizo Material?
Pure Pathfinder or is 3.5 on the table?
pathfinder only.
The anti social stuff is ok with me, i put points in Intimidate.
Bastard sword takes a feat to be able to use 1 handed, and it is 2D8 vs 2D6, with the same crit stats. With Impact that is 3D8 vs 3D6, it might be worth it for the high end of damage.
My feeling on Guts is he can take a beating but can dish a bigger one out. Barbarian fits that role very nicely. According to Puck, Guts seems to get his strength from intensely negative emotions, which sounds like Rage to me. I am not one for multi-classing either. This is just based on Guts not a 100% match to him. For that i would need mythic tiers.
Really i was looking for feat and rage power suggestions.
Dekalinder |
If you just want an offensive-focused barbarian just pick your standard stock human superstition-lion totem-come and get me invulnerable rager. Some more thematic rage powers would be ghost rager, fueled by rage (totally a waste but feels right) and strenght surge.
If you're doing this mightn't he have picked up his first level of Barbarian during the Golden Era, while his berserker side/inner beast was cultivating?
He was mostly being rash and impulsive. Sometimes he got a bit angry, but who doesn't? It's only during the eclipse he actually got so angry that the only way he could survive was learning how to make something usefull out of it.
Vrog Skyreaver |
Take a look at the fighter archetype from the giant slayers handbook (whose name I can't remember at the moment). They get the ability to wield large sized two-handed weapons at a penalty (kinda like monkey grip from 3.5). Add in titan Mauler levels, and you can pretty much wield a two-handed weapon without penalty.
kyrt-ryder |
Charon's Little Helper |
Vrog Skyreaver wrote:Take a look at the fighter archetype from the giant slayers handbook (whose name I can't remember at the moment). They get the ability to wield large sized two-handed weapons at a penalty (kinda like monkey grip from 3.5).Titan Fighter
I like the vibe of it - but mechanically it's pretty bad. The only real advantage it gets is the ability to perform maneuvers on creatures 2 sizes larger and a slight CMD boost.
ekibus |
Yeah was hoping to avoid commenting but...can't stop myself... Guts is 100% fighter (titan fighter) he fights with skill and precision...not passion or rage. Really the only way he rages is through the armor (which he doesnt get until way into the manga) which grants him the ability to bypass human restraint and increases his strength (aka bbn rage with str and con) but that is granted by the armor not by himself.
If I was to base him loosely I would probably go inquisitor with the rage domain (granted powers by the god-hand...go figure)Heck if you want to go monster hunter I always go inquisitor :)
SiuoL |
Personally I wouldn't make him unchained barbarian. You lose +2 damage from not having morale bonus in strength, also you don't get to stack other source of morale bonus on attack and damage rolls when you rage.
Secondly I would use a +5 Transformative, Courageous, Furious, Impact, Ghost Touch Greatsword and had it become a Large Bastard Sword so you deal 2d8 weapon damage which goes to 3d8 because of Impact. Then with Furious Finish and greater vital strike, you get to run in to battle, take some minor hits and kill things with one hit like Guts. 12*8 = 96 weapon damage alone.
I just wish Vital Strike works with Sweeping Strike in Mythic. Then you can do the Guts' sweeping kill thing. Even with just Cleave it will still be good.
Also take quick draws. FOr his other weapons
Bandw2 |
Bandw2 wrote:I don't think the OP will see this BLT.No, but its an entertaining one nonetheless. Kind of tragic when you realize action economy means an accurate representation of guts in PF is impossible
he has vital strike with that alternate type of action economy in unchained or whatever.
Vidmaster7 |
Figther (if you can get it monkey grip from 3.5 which works like the jotungrip class ability) straight fighter (so that you loss the armor check and movement penalties through armor mastery) for first weapon training you take two handed sword second and 3rd throwing daggers and The think on his wrist. I would say is somewhere between a repeating crossbow and a wrist launcher i'd stat it somewhere like 1d4 x3 60ft
you need to focus mostly on big two handed damage sword feats but sprinkle in some ranged feats. he definitely has the cleave line (with his reach should be scary)
now his magic items are where it gets tricky
The dragon slayer sword: is an over-sized great-sword (or large if you'd like) Its made of star metal if I remember correctly so I would go with adamantium. The pluses are hard to say but probably add impact on there.
The Berzerk plate: I would say +5 (maybe +3) spiked (or bladed there does seem to be alot of places to cut someone on the armor) fullplate (maybe field plate) That allows the wearer to use the rage class feature (maybe at their class level or at least a higher rage anyways)
It has a personality obviously something along the lines of kill anything that crosses you and take whatever you want and has a strong ego.
His left cannon hand: probably the hardest one. I remember somewhere seeing a prosthetic limb options so mechanical prosthetic limb with a cannon in it (cannon would do somewhere around 6-10 d6 x4 1-20 ft range increment touch attack for first range like other firearms.
after that anything you can do to spruce up his combat abilities would only add to it.
kyrt-ryder |
Ride, intimidate, perception, acrobatics, climb, swim, survival (admittedly guts doesn't do a LOT of tracking so Survival doesn't need to be maintained for all levels to track level-appropriate targets but barring magic or REALLY freaky natural phenomenon he won't get lost or fail to feed himself in the wilderness)
Bandw2 |
Ride, intimidate, perception, acrobatics, climb, swim, survival (admittedly guts doesn't do a LOT of tracking so Survival doesn't need to be maintained for all levels to track level-appropriate targets but barring magic or REALLY freaky natural phenomenon he won't get lost or fail to feed himself in the wilderness)
like I said, he's over leveled and probably doesn't have full ranks in them.
Vidmaster7 |
I had thought titan fighter before too but the arch-type is so bad. really all you need is jotungrip (if you can talk DM to letting you have monkey grip) I managed to for my version but waited till like level 9 or so before I got it. too many other things I needed and penalties plues price are hard work.
Rhedyn |
Sadly you can't play Guts. He's an overleveled fighter with barely any gear.
You will always be the same level as your party and will wear real gear.
He is the high level fighter. His ability to smack things is so disproportionate to all of his other abilities that soldiers, kings, demons, and Gods are always caught off guard by his sheer prowess.
Bandw2 |
In PF he might be the high level fighter, but that says very bad things about PF.
Guts is not more than level 8-10 at most conceptually, possibly squeaking up to 13 in the Berserk Armor
no he's up there, he swings his sword so damned hard it annihilates about everything. doesn't do much else though.
kyrt-ryder |
kyrt-ryder wrote:no he's up there, he swings his sword so damned hard it annihilates about everything. doesn't do much else though.In PF he might be the high level fighter, but that says very bad things about PF.
Guts is not more than level 8-10 at most conceptually, possibly squeaking up to 13 in the Berserk Armor
Thank you for making my point for me.
Neal Litherland |
Vidmaster7 |
well if your dm throws 100 orcs at you at level 10 you will definitely feel like guts. as far as int goes hes a pretty good tactician as well as a good wisdom tactics I believe do fall under int. but yeah 12 I would be ok with. (so 4 skill points a level i would say keep intimidate max and split the other 3 between the other things he needs.
I think you can get the feel of guts by playing a two handed sword wielding big damage beefcake. Just need the DM to occasionally throw hordes at the party.
Grumbaki |
Sadly you can't play Guts. He's an overleveled fighter with barely any gear.
You will always be the same level as your party and will wear real gear.
He is the high level fighter. His ability to smack things is so disproportionate to all of his other abilities that soldiers, kings, demons, and Gods are always caught off guard by his sheer prowess.
I played with someone who had a guts themed character. We were all level 3...and he was hitting for damage in the 30s
With 7 of us in the party we played up. In the adventure there were 4 fights.
Fight 1: A statue comes to life. Myself and another archer plink some hits on it. Guts destroys the statue.
Fight 2: A golem. Due to DR the fight lasts for awhile, with guts tanking.
Fight 3: An overpowered alchemist who the GM admits was made far too strong. In the first surprise round we have 1 caster down and everyone else really hurt. Several PCs go down throughout it. Guts is the only character who can really do anything. My inquisitor becomes a heal bot, keeping Guts alive. He eventually cuts it down.
Fight 4: The boss who was a monk. Much weaker than the alchemist. We race to see who can take him down. Guts knocks him out with a punch.
I don't know what the build was...but the player used angel blooded Aasimar (+2 str, alter self for another +2, elemental resistances that kept him alive) and multi-classed. As he raged he had to have had barbarian levels.
It was ridiculous. So much so that the GM stopped the game to go over the character sheet. Which is a sign that you did the build right.
So it really is possible to make Guts and to have that overpowered feel down. Wish I knew his full build...