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[d20pfsrd.com] Starjammer: Pathfinder in Space!


Product Discussion

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Note from paizo.com: This product and thread has been renamed, changing Starfinder to Starjammer. See this post for further information.

On behalf of John Reyst of d20pfsrd.com, we are pleased to announce the upcoming product, entitled "Starfinder", brought to you by myself, and George "Loki" Williams.

"Starfinder" will be a primary guide to plan and play adventures in space. Travel between worlds, fight space pirates, or become one yourself! Discover new alien species and use amazing feats to help you become a great spacefaring vessel captain if you choose! Customize your vessel to create the perfect vehicle to suit your playstyle.

John will be releasing more details as they become available on d20pfsrd.com, so visit the website or d20pfsrd.com's Facebook page for more information!

Of course, we welcome your questions!

d20pfsrd.com is the 2010 & 2011 recipient of a Silver ENnie award and publisher of several series of products that are on sale now at Paizo.com and DriveThruRPG.


Bodhizen wrote:
Of course, we welcome your questions!

I'll start. Will this product be oriented more toward magic, like the old Spelljammer campaign setting, or more in the direction of technology, like the current Iron Gods adventure path?

-Nate


Thank you for your question, Nate!

The design perspective is being approached in a mixture of both. I feel that it leans slightly more heavily toward magic at this point, but there are elements of the technology as well. Do you have a more specific follow-up question?


The only thing I'd really need to do Starfinder now are laser guns.


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I have questions. Numbered for easy referencing and counter-referencing.

What's the scale and scope of this project?
1)How long is this product?
2)Will it cover new classes?
a)Will there be any new technology-based classes?
3)Will it feature new equipment
a)Will new equipment be compatable with rules presented in Paizo's Technology Guide?
b)Will new equipment include melee weapons, speeders, mecha, hardsuits?
4)How much technological support will there be for mundane classes such as the fighter and Rogue?
5)Will the proliferation of touch attacks in technological weapons be addressed? Specifically, will there be new defenses against them?
6)Will there be new races?


Thank you for your questions, Malwing! You'll have to understand that there's only so much information that I can disclose at this time, but I will try to be as forthcoming as possible.

Malwing wrote:
What's the scale and scope of this project?

At present, it is one book, but Loki and I hope to put out future supplements depending upon sales of this product.

Malwing wrote:
1)How long is this product?

I believe that we're looking at a product in excess of 50,000 words.

Malwing wrote:

2)Will it cover new classes?

a)Will there be any new technology-based classes?

That is not something that I proposed in the original project, and it's not something that has been discussed between the design team. However, I don't see it as being out of the picture entirely.

Malwing wrote:
3)Will it feature new equipment?

Yes.

Malwing wrote:
a)Will new equipment be compatable with rules presented in Paizo's Technology Guide?

Of course.

Malwing wrote:
b)Will new equipment include melee weapons, speeders, mecha, hardsuits?

That is a distinct possibility.

Malwing wrote:
4)How much technological support will there be for mundane classes such as the fighter and Rogue?

This isn't exactly another technology guide, so there may be less technological support for specific classes as you might hope for. One of our primary goals is to provide workable vessels for spacefaring adventures, which is a rather large undertaking, but critical if players and GMs wish to be able to participate in adventures in space. That's going to take precedence over a section that is dedicated to technological support for mundane classes, else the project would be "dead in space", so to speak.

Malwing wrote:
5)Will the proliferation of touch attacks in technological weapons be addressed? Specifically, will there be new defenses against them?

Quite possibly.

Malwing wrote:


6)Will there be new races?

Yes.

Loki and I are very excited about what we have already, and we think that there are going to be quite a few pleasant surprises in the final product. I think that one of our primary goals with this project is to get players up into space. Beyond that... Well, the stars truly are the limit.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

This interest me. I will be running a "Kingmaker in Space," down the line. Will you be addressing the pathfinder Campaign rules (down time, kingdom running, etc)?


remoh wrote:

This interest me. I will be running a "Kingmaker in Space," down the line. Will you be addressing the pathfinder Campaign rules (down time, kingdom running, etc)?

Thanks for your question, Remoh!

I'm not really certain what you feel needs to be addressed with regard to the Pathfinder campaign rules. Can you please clarify your question for me?


4 people marked this as a favorite.

THIS IS AWESOME!

Please lean more towards spelljammer, less towards ray guns.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Freehold DM wrote:

THIS IS AWESOME!

Please lean more towards spelljammer, less towards ray guns.

That is certainly the goal, although there will be some tendencies toward both.


Bodhizen wrote:
remoh wrote:

This interest me. I will be running a "Kingmaker in Space," down the line. Will you be addressing the pathfinder Campaign rules (down time, kingdom running, etc)?

Thanks for your question, Remoh!

I'm not really certain what you feel needs to be addressed with regard to the Pathfinder campaign rules. Can you please clarify your question for me?

I believe Remoh is referring to the rules presented in the Ultimate Campaign book- handling downtime, building a kingdom, etc.

(And yes, this is also relevant to my interests...)


Bodhizen wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:

THIS IS AWESOME!

Please lean more towards spelljammer, less towards ray guns.

That is certainly the goal, although there will be some tendencies toward both.

This makes me think of the old Wizardry PC games.

Liberty's Edge

Freehold DM wrote:

THIS IS AWESOME!

Please lean more towards spelljammer, less towards ray guns.

Battlemechs and Gyrojets, please! And none of those sissy battlesuits, I mean the kind of battlemech where you control the torso independently of the legs, and it is over 100 degrees (Fahrenheit) in the cockpit.


Woo-hoo!


Seth Dresari wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:

THIS IS AWESOME!

Please lean more towards spelljammer, less towards ray guns.

Battlemechs and Gyrojets, please! And none of those sissy battlesuits, I mean the kind of battlemech where you control the torso independently of the legs, and it is over 100 degrees (Fahrenheit) in the cockpit.

...I don't remember that in spelljammer...although there was a throwaway line about that Crab thingie being used in space with minimal problems, although it was challenging.


Changing Man wrote:
Bodhizen wrote:
remoh wrote:

This interest me. I will be running a "Kingmaker in Space," down the line. Will you be addressing the pathfinder Campaign rules (down time, kingdom running, etc)?

Thanks for your question, Remoh!

I'm not really certain what you feel needs to be addressed with regard to the Pathfinder campaign rules. Can you please clarify your question for me?

I believe Remoh is referring to the rules presented in the Ultimate Campaign book- handling downtime, building a kingdom, etc.

(And yes, this is also relevant to my interests...)

Thank you for your assistance, but this doesn't actually clarify his question. I understand what rules he's asking about, but I don't have a grasp on exactly what issues Remoh is referring to. It's like saying, "Will you be addressing the problem with the Australian government?" Sure... Which problem are you referring to? What, exactly, do you feel is at issue with handling downtime? What, exactly, do you feel is at issue with handling building a kingdom?

Clarification on these questions would assist me in giving you a clear answer.

Seth Dresari wrote:
Battlemechs and Gyrojets, please! And none of those sissy battlesuits, I mean the kind of battlemech where you control the torso independently of the legs, and it is over 100 degrees (Fahrenheit) in the cockpit.

Thank you for your input! I think that battlemechs are a bit beyond the scope of our assignment at present. As I had mentioned earlier, the primary goal is to get players out into space, and presenting a variety of fun and interesting options uses up quite a bit of our allotted word-count. You wouldn't want just one kind of vessel to fly, nor would you want only one means of powering that vessel, just so that you can have all kinds of cool tech, and then have to wait on someone else to provide you with a more complete supplement, would you? That would do a disservice to you, and make for an incomplete experience.

Having said that, I'm a huge fan of mechanized weapon-suits; from everything from the power-loader in Aliens to mobile suits from the Gundam series. If there's room for that, then I would like to include them, but it's not a primary goal. The same holds true of gyrojets and other weapons like railguns. It's a strange kind of balancing act to provide fantasy/science-fiction options, but not explicitly provide things that would shift the game toward a more "modern" feel, which is not where I, personally, want to take the game. That's one of the reasons why we're going with a more Spelljammer feel than a d20 Future or d20 Modern feel.

Constructing a mecha that creates an environmental hazard inside to the pilot is certainly interesting, but that might devalue the experience of using such a magitech item. However, I do appreciate the suggestion.

Best wishes!

Please feel free to continue to ask questions about the project, all.


Freehold DM wrote:
Seth Dresari wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:

THIS IS AWESOME!

Please lean more towards spelljammer, less towards ray guns.

Battlemechs and Gyrojets, please! And none of those sissy battlesuits, I mean the kind of battlemech where you control the torso independently of the legs, and it is over 100 degrees (Fahrenheit) in the cockpit.
...I don't remember that in spelljammer...although there was a throwaway line about that Crab thingie being used in space with minimal problems, although it was challenging.

Are you referring to the Apparatus of the Crab?


I'd love to see this come to fruition. Good luck!

Liberty's Edge

I don't think this is gonna be a complete Spelljmmer conversion, just Spelljammer-inspired.

I actually got my interpretation of mechs from Battletech; durable, but ugly. Fast, but difficult to pilot (requiring a neurohelmet and months of training). Armed to the teeth, but dangerous to the operator (extreme temperatures, forcing the pilot to wear a cooling vest). The idea is that they would be really powerful, but also very risky; in a given situation, is that power worth the risk? It would be a serious investment on the player's end.

SilvercatMoonpaw wrote:
The only thing I'd really need to do Starfinder now are laser guns.

The type of mech I am thinking of could have things like lasers and particle weapons, but the mech could overheat if those weapons are overused. It could have regular guns, but those require ammo, which can be blown up with a well-placed strike. If the mech is too badly damaged to be useful (or is overheating... Or has a core breach), then there is usually a pilot ejection system.

Bodhizen wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:
...I don't remember that in spelljammer...although there was a throwaway line about that Crab thingie being used in space with minimal problems, although it was challenging.
Are you referring to the Apparatus of the Crab?

As for the Apparatus of the Crab, I actually remember that from the D&D 3.0 DMG.


Bodhizen wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:
Seth Dresari wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:

THIS IS AWESOME!

Please lean more towards spelljammer, less towards ray guns.

Battlemechs and Gyrojets, please! And none of those sissy battlesuits, I mean the kind of battlemech where you control the torso independently of the legs, and it is over 100 degrees (Fahrenheit) in the cockpit.
...I don't remember that in spelljammer...although there was a throwaway line about that Crab thingie being used in space with minimal problems, although it was challenging.
Are you referring to the Apparatus of the Crab?

yes, yes that thing!

I do recall a friend of a friend who was into anime before I was trying to do more with that, but this was back in 2nd ed days- the rules -and giant robot anime- have changed considerably since then.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

Tsk! It's the Apparatus of Kwalish. "crab" is one of those generic names foisted off on the originals.

And a mecha suit does exist as Golem Armor in Epic 3e, and super robot artifacts as the MIghty Servant of Leuk-O, and the Machine of Lum the Mad handling computerized chaos.

==Aelryinth


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The old Spelljammer had bioengineered versions of armored/powered/"Guyver-ish" suits (bionoids) and giant elven mechs (spirit warriors). For the former, maybe a re-flavored & tweaked synthesist summoner archetype or a modified manyskins dancer druid from ICftS could work? For the mech, maybe a modified iron knight from the Kaiju Codex?

This is all probably beyond the envisioned scope of your initial Starfinder corebook, but maybe it could find it's way into a supplement?


Ambrosia Slaad wrote:

The old Spelljammer had bioengineered versions of armored/powered/"Guyver-ish" suits (bionoids) and giant elven mechs (spirit warriors). For the former, maybe a re-flavored & tweaked synthesist summoner archetype or a modified manyskins dancer druid from ICftS could work? For the mech, maybe a modified iron knight from the Kaiju Codex?

This is all probably beyond the envisioned scope of your initial Starfinder corebook, but maybe it could find it's way into a supplement?

if I was not attached my my sanity in the way I am, I would kiss you.

Please link me to the bionoids and spirit warriors if possible!


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Freehold DM wrote:
Please link me to the bionoids and spirit warriors if possible!

Bionoids: 2e (TSR original) and 3.x (fan-converted)

Spirit warriors: 2e (TSR original) and 3.x (fan-converted)


Seth Dresari wrote:
I don't think this is gonna be a complete Spelljmmer conversion, just Spelljammer-inspired.

You are correct. It's not going to be a complete Spelljammer conversion. That would violate the IP of the copyright holder, for one, and we wanted to do something somewhat different anyway.

Seth Dresari wrote:

I actually got my interpretation of mechs from Battletech; durable, but ugly. Fast, but difficult to pilot (requiring a neurohelmet and months of training). Armed to the teeth, but dangerous to the operator (extreme temperatures, forcing the pilot to wear a cooling vest). The idea is that they would be really powerful, but also very risky; in a given situation, is that power worth the risk? It would be a serious investment on the player's end.

The type of mech I am thinking of could have things like lasers and particle weapons, but the mech could overheat if those weapons are overused. It could have regular guns, but those require ammo, which can be blown up with a well-placed strike. If the mech is too badly damaged to be useful (or is overheating... Or has a core breach), then there is usually a pilot ejection system.

Do you feel that if there was some risk and impediment to using something that you acquired from your GM or, more likely, used your wealth by level to purchase, would you feel cheated? I don't disagree that it's an awesome idea, but the implementation might need to be streamlined.

Ambrosia Slaad wrote:

The old Spelljammer had bioengineered versions of armored/powered/"Guyver-ish" suits (bionoids) and giant elven mechs (spirit warriors). For the former, maybe a re-flavored & tweaked synthesist summoner archetype or a modified manyskins dancer druid from ICftS could work? For the mech, maybe a modified iron knight from the Kaiju Codex?

This is all probably beyond the envisioned scope of your initial Starfinder corebook, but maybe it could find it's way into a supplement?

I loved the bionoids from Spelljammer, but I have concerns that it might be too close to the original IP to implement them in a recognizable form. That's definitely something that we'd like to avoid.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Bodhizen wrote:

On behalf of John Reyst of d20pfsrd.com, we are pleased to announce the upcoming product, entitled "Starfinder", brought to you by myself, and George "Loki" Williams.

"Starfinder" will be a primary guide to plan and play adventures in space. Travel between worlds, fight space pirates, or become one yourself! Discover new alien species and use amazing feats to help you become a great spacefaring vessel captain if you choose! Customize your vessel to create the perfect vehicle to suit your playstyle.

I've crossposted this over at the Spelljammer forum at The Piazza.

How much of Starfinder would be useful for a Spelljammer fan who is happy with the existing Spelljammer rules, but looking for additional material to raid from your book and add to their SJ game?


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bigmac wrote:

I've crossposted this over at the Spelljammer forum at The Piazza.

How much of Starfinder would be useful for a Spelljammer fan who is happy with the existing Spelljammer rules, but looking for additional material to raid from your book and add to their SJ game?

First off, thank you very much for the cross-posting! That's very kind of you.

Secondly, the direction that we're going with in regard to Starfinder is going to naturally depart from the way that Spelljammer works. If we were to predicate spacefaring vessels on the notion that they're all going to be powered with the same spelljamming helms that you find in Spelljammer, for example, we'd violate Hasbro's IP, and we definitely do not want to do that. That would be an easy way to kill this project before it really starts. Therefore, there are going to be changes, out of necessity, that one would have to purposefully ignore in order to forge compatibility between systems. I wish it didn't have to be that way, but I fear that Starfinder is going to be an alternate system rather than an adjunct system.


Colour me excited by this prospect. This sounds like it might have a lot of potential especially if used in conjunction with Dragon*Star!


Bodhizen wrote:
bigmac wrote:

I've crossposted this over at the Spelljammer forum at The Piazza.

How much of Starfinder would be useful for a Spelljammer fan who is happy with the existing Spelljammer rules, but looking for additional material to raid from your book and add to their SJ game?

First off, thank you very much for the cross-posting! That's very kind of you.

Secondly, the direction that we're going with in regard to Starfinder is going to naturally depart from the way that Spelljammer works. If we were to predicate spacefaring vessels on the notion that they're all going to be powered with the same spelljamming helms that you find in Spelljammer, for example, we'd violate Hasbro's IP, and we definitely do not want to do that. That would be an easy way to kill this project before it really starts. Therefore, there are going to be changes, out of necessity, that one would have to purposefully ignore in order to forge compatibility between systems. I wish it didn't have to be that way, but I fear that Starfinder is going to be an alternate system rather than an adjunct system.

Oh sure, it is going to have to be different. I would not expect anything else.

And even if you have been inspired by Spelljammer (as well as other fantasy space product lines like Dragonstar and Space 1889) you are going to want to cut your own path.

But there are going to be some things that might be similar, in all games that fit into the same general niche.

I'm guessing that NPCs would be things that players of other space games could raid and repurpose, for example.

I'm guessing that space monsters would be things that players of other space games could also raid.

Here are a couple of other questions:

Will you have open-decked ships, or ships that work more like spaceships from the Flash Gordon cinema serial adventures?

Will you have planets and planetary systems?

Those are the sort of things that a SJ fan may or may not be able to raid.


bigmac wrote:

Oh sure, it is going to have to be different. I would not expect anything else.

And even if you have been inspired by Spelljammer (as well as other fantasy space product lines like Dragonstar and Space 1889) you are going to want to cut your own path.

But there are going to be some things that might be similar, in all games that fit into the same general niche.

I'm guessing that NPCs would be things that players of other space games could raid and repurpose, for example.

I'm guessing that space monsters would be things that players of other space games could also raid.

Most certainly. There will be NPCs and monsters that could be raided and repurposed.

bigmac wrote:

Here are a couple of other questions:

Will you have open-decked ships, or ships that work more like spaceships from the Flash Gordon cinema serial adventures?

It is ultimately my preference to have closed-deck vessels more in keeping with more traditional space settings such as Star Trek, Star Wars, Firefly, etc... However, I believe the option is being made available to have viable open-decked vessels.

bigmac wrote:
Will you have planets and planetary systems?

We most certainly will. They will be as inclusive as possible with systems like Legendary Planet, while still presenting new material. It's something that's currently in the idea stage.


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Okay, so here are my expectations/how it's working out in my head based on what I'm hearing. I was not really around for Dragonstar or Spelljammer so my expectations aren't based around that. I'm also assuming that you guys are going for the least complicated rules possible with more word count dedicated to augmentations than base mechanics.

The goal seems to be to simply get players into space and interact with it so I presume this is primarily a vehicle book with things that can appear in space.

On the vehicle front since a stated goal is customization I imagine that vehicles would come in size classes with base stats on each of them. Then customizations that can apply to any of them with the exception of things like certain engine types and size limits. For example; something equivalent to warp drives would probably be limited to colossal and greater category ships. This probably functions much like enhancement bonuses with pricing based on size class. I saw mention of engine variation so I imagine something along the lines of vehicles getting templates based on what kind of engine is attached. Since the baseline is Pathfinder this probably includes things like crystals, living trees, witch drives, and alchemical reactors in additions to the type of generators that appear in the Technology Guide. Personally I've been using Space Potato's vehicle rules with the assumption that the engines functioned like Technology Guide reactors and it seems to make sense so far. Different engines probably require different skill bonuses for drive checks.

Mech fighters could be as simple as giving arm and/or leg customizations. Get a huge class vehicle and its some kind of plane-shaped fighter. Add legs and arms to it and suddenly it's a mecha. Bonus Points if the vehicle can deploy and undeploy legs and arms so that I can play a Veritech. Even more bonus points if legs can be undeployed and arms deployed so that I can use four legs (robot lion) and retract them and put out arms (making it humanoid shaped now) so its a full transforming mecha. Probably the simplest and most diverse way I can think to do this since if it applies to any vehicle you can put it on a city-sized space station and make Gurran Lagan mecha.

In terms of powered armor I've been using this guy and its really an easy thing to do. Its just armor with it's own air that gives you hardness, a strength bonus, a speed bonus and you can attack a few vehicle mods to it.

I saw Aliens races being a thing so character choices are in the picture. I don't know how weird you're willing to get but I imagine its pretty weird considering that you can just refluff any race to be an alien. Some products have a 'build-a-race' race but I don't recommend going that route. If there is a class involved since I'm imagining a primarily vehicle book a generic vehicle class sounds in order, and maybe an alien/space environment ranger-like class. If not a Fighter and Ranger archetype would be sufficient but new classes leaves room for expansion.

New items would probably be alien and space environment survival and defense. Things like portable air tanks and space suits. Ray shielding as a special material is possible.

For the most part I'm just spitballing, let me know if I'm hitting anywhere close to home on these.


Malwing wrote:
Okay, so here are my expectations/how it's working out in my head based on what I'm hearing. I was not really around for Dragonstar or Spelljammer so my expectations aren't based around that. I'm also assuming that you guys are going for the least complicated rules possible with more word count dedicated to augmentations than base mechanics.

You'll have to understand that I cannot violate the NDA, but I can maybe give hints.

Malwing wrote:
The goal seems to be to simply get players into space and interact with it so I presume this is primarily a vehicle book with things that can appear in space.

You're only partially correct.

Malwing wrote:
On the vehicle front since a stated goal is customization I imagine that vehicles would come in size classes with base stats on each of them. Then customizations that can apply to any of them with the exception of things like certain engine types and size limits. For example; something equivalent to warp drives would probably be limited to colossal and greater category ships. This probably functions much like enhancement bonuses with pricing based on size class. I saw mention of engine variation so I imagine something along the lines of vehicles getting templates based on what kind of engine is attached. Since the baseline is Pathfinder this probably includes things like crystals, living trees, witch drives, and alchemical reactors in additions to the type of generators that appear in the Technology Guide. Personally I've been using Space Potato's vehicle rules with the assumption that the engines functioned like Technology Guide reactors and it seems to make sense so far. Different engines probably require different skill bonuses for drive checks.

There are some elements that sound strangely familiar here.

Malwing wrote:
Mech fighters could be as simple as giving arm and/or leg customizations. Get a huge class vehicle and its some kind of plane-shaped fighter. Add legs and arms to it and suddenly it's a mecha. Bonus Points if the vehicle can deploy and undeploy legs and arms so that I can play a Veritech. Even more bonus points if legs can be undeployed and arms deployed so that I can use four legs (robot lion) and retract them and put out arms (making it humanoid shaped now) so its a full transforming mecha. Probably the simplest and most diverse way I can think to do this since if it applies to any vehicle you can put it on a city-sized space station and make Gurran Lagan mecha.

True as this may be, it is not a primary goal.

Malwing wrote:
In terms of powered armor I've been using this guy and its really an easy thing to do. Its just armor with it's own air that gives you hardness, a strength bonus, a speed bonus and you can attack a few vehicle mods to it.

Interesting.

Malwing wrote:
I saw Aliens races being a thing so character choices are in the picture. I don't know how weird you're willing to get but I imagine its pretty weird considering that you can just refluff any race to be an alien. Some products have a 'build-a-race' race but I don't recommend going that route. If there is a class involved since I'm imagining a primarily vehicle book a generic vehicle class sounds in order, and maybe an alien/space environment ranger-like class. If not a Fighter and Ranger archetype would be sufficient but new classes leaves room for expansion.

The alien races will be more specific.

Malwing wrote:
New items would probably be alien and space environment survival and defense. Things like portable air tanks and space suits. Ray shielding as a special material is possible.

It's definitely a wide universe of possibilities.

Malwing wrote:
For the most part I'm just spitballing, let me know if I'm hitting anywhere close to home on these.

You have definitely hit close to home on some of these.

Liberty's Edge

Regarding the Kingdom building rules, I think the issue is, will there be some space/tech specific building rules, like power generators, garages, spaceports, etc?


3 people marked this as a favorite.
Ambrosia Slaad wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:
Please link me to the bionoids and spirit warriors if possible!

Bionoids: 2e (TSR original) and 3.x (fan-converted)

Spirit warriors: 2e (TSR original) and 3.x (fan-converted)

I hug you!


lonewolf23k wrote:
Regarding the Kingdom building rules, I think the issue is, will there be some space/tech specific building rules, like power generators, garages, spaceports, etc?

Now that's an excellent question. That is not in the works for this current book at present. We haven't gotten to much in the chapter dedicated to life among the stars yet.

The Exchange

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Though now that you mention it lonewolf23k, that is an awesome idea for a supplement should the core book do well!


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Of the things that I hope that I'm on the nose about is;

Generic vehicle interaction base class.

Variety of power sources for ships, particularly magical ones.

Leg and arm enhancements to vehicles.

Mostly because I don't have those things. I have a burgeoning collection of science fiction Pathfinder supplements so I'll likely pick this one up right out the gate but it has some competition for actual use. The technology guide gives me my basic weapons and armor as well as the precedence for a lot of other technology covering quite a few basic tropes. Adding to the Technology Guide, Fantastic Technology from Fat Goblin Games gives me Kingdom Building, technological enhancements, and technological vehicle power source conversion while Treasury of the Machine fills in a few more holes. Outside of that Space Patato Games gives me some basic ship rules and stat blocks. I have numerous sources of alien races.

Overall what I'm really missing are;

Technology interaction base classes, as opposed to a tech magician. Most solutions to classes and technology is to have a technomancer produce spell-like effects that are gadgets rather than spells (a la Alchemist) rather than interacting with a realm of technology (like the Gunslinger)

Technology interface feats. Skill unlocks produce something interesting that I think everyone should pay attention to and design around, particularly how it works in Occult Adventures. Take a feat and you can now use that skill in a plethora of new ways. Much like the technologist feat this can serve as a means of entry into high technology and avoids the situation where you need several new skills (which character sheets don't have) to deal with technology.

Actually mech warriors. I have powered armor converted and mixed with similar third party products but all I have for mecha that is anywhere near functional is the d20 mecha compendium. I know adding arms and legs to a vehicle is easy but there are no variable vehicles so it's moot point and a rough thing to convert. Currently I'm working with a hodge podge of the mecha compendium, third party vehicle customization rules and some elbow grease when I'd rather have something I can just hand to my players and not have to convert things myself.


Will there be gnome ships powered by giant space hamsters with a sign on the side saying, "We are bad!" bristling with about 100 ballistas?


Malwing wrote:

Of the things that I hope that I'm on the nose about is;

Generic vehicle interaction base class.

There is an issue with this concept. It is primarily concerned with "what do you do with the character if you're not near your vehicle?" If you're treating your vehicle much like a mount, then it really belongs as an archetype of paladin or cavalier as opposed to its own class. Is there anything in particular that you envision a generic vehicle interaction base class doing that could not be done via an archetype?

Malwing wrote:
Variety of power sources for ships, particularly magical ones.

Power sources, or engines?

Malwing wrote:
Leg and arm enhancements to vehicles.

It is my view that the best approach to this is to build the vehicles first, and worry about legs and arms on the vehicles later. While I think that playing with a veritech could be very cool, it may shift the emphasis from player heroism to gadgetry that may or may not be compatible with class abilities, or worse yet, overpower characters and begin an arms race of power creep.

Malwing wrote:
Mostly because I don't have those things. I have a burgeoning collection of science fiction Pathfinder supplements so I'll likely pick this one up right out the gate but it has some competition for actual use. The technology guide gives me my basic weapons and armor as well as the precedence for a lot of other technology covering quite a few basic tropes. Adding to the Technology Guide, Fantastic Technology from Fat Goblin Games gives me Kingdom Building, technological enhancements, and technological vehicle power source conversion while Treasury of the Machine fills in a few more holes. Outside of that Space Patato Games gives me some basic ship rules and stat blocks. I have numerous sources of alien races.

I very much appreciate this input. While I understand that a lot of other products out there will give you things that you already have and use, we're designing a basic setting for spacefaring adventures. Yes, we're concentrating quite a bit of effort on getting you out into space, and we're making it easier to create custom vehicles than what I've seen in Bones & Starlight. This allows you greater flexibility and control over your spacefaring adventure experience.

Malwing wrote:

Overall what I'm really missing are;

Technology interaction base classes, as opposed to a tech magician. Most solutions to classes and technology is to have a technomancer produce spell-like effects that are gadgets rather than spells (a la Alchemist) rather than interacting with a realm of technology (like the Gunslinger)

I understand this completely. I've taken a crack or two at "technical" classes on my own and have been completely dissatisfied with their ability to interact and integrate smoothly with Pathfinder. However, I'm curious to know what you envision as an ideal means of technological integration with a base class built around that concept. Crafting technology has extremely high potential to unbalance games, so I'm personally loathe to go down that route with a class. Using existing technology ends up fitting better as an archetype of an established class (such as the ranger, cavalier or gunslinger), since many class abilities can lend themselves to ease of integration. I'm not opposed to the concept, but I'm really curious to know if you're seeing something that I may not have considered before.

Malwing wrote:
Technology interface feats. Skill unlocks produce something interesting that I think everyone should pay attention to and design around, particularly how it works in Occult Adventures. Take a feat and you can now use that skill in a plethora of new ways. Much like the technologist feat this can serve as a means of entry into high technology and avoids the situation where you need several new skills (which character sheets don't have) to deal with technology.

I'm going to have to wait until next week to be able to address this, as I do not have Occult Adventures as of yet. I, unfortunately, have no common frame of reference.

Malwing wrote:
Actually mech warriors. I have powered armor converted and mixed with similar third party products but all I have for mecha that is anywhere near functional is the d20 mecha compendium. I know adding arms and legs to a vehicle is easy but there are no variable vehicles so it's moot point and a rough thing to convert. Currently I'm working with a hodge podge of the mecha compendium, third party vehicle customization rules and some elbow grease when I'd rather have something I can just hand to my players and not have to convert things myself.

That may be going further toward the tech side than we originally intended with this product, but based upon sales, it may certainly be a valid option for further supplements.

However, I would like to thank you for your continued input and interest in this product.


Saker wrote:
Will there be gnome ships powered by giant space hamsters with a sign on the side saying, "We are bad!" bristling with about 100 ballistas?

I'm sorry to disappoint. Hasbro might not like that very much.

Even though it was hilarious!


I'm interested in adventures. One of the biggest selling points of Pathfinder are the AP, at least for me. What's your stance, will there be adventures?


Bodhizen wrote:
Malwing wrote:

Of the things that I hope that I'm on the nose about is;

Generic vehicle interaction base class.

There is an issue with this concept. It is primarily concerned with "what do you do with the character if you're not near your vehicle?" If you're treating your vehicle much like a mount, then it really belongs as an archetype of paladin or cavalier as opposed to its own class. Is there anything in particular that you envision a generic vehicle interaction base class doing that could not be done via an archetype?

I built a homebrew base class called Starship Pilot (for my homebrew space setting, which leans more towards tech than magic) that was loosely based off ranger that had some of this "vehicle problem", with piloting skills that improve over level, and ship's gunnery skills (combat style), but I diversified the class by giving sidearm weapon bonuses, vehicle mechanic abilities (to work on broken systems aboard a starship and other vehicles, though not as well as an engineer, another base class of mine), survival skill bonuses (I know US Army helicopter pilots get regular training on survival for the expectation of crashing their craft in wilderness areas), and something I call Starport Savvy, which are bonuses (that improve every few levels, like Favored Terrain) to Appraise, Bluff, Diplomacy, Knowledge (engineering), Knowledge (local), and Sense Motive. Starport Savvy is my way of giving some social skills in dealing with starport administrators, getting reliable parts, finding buyers and sellers of cargo, and finding paying passengers.

Basically a vehicle guy, that has something else to do besides piloting, that can be applied to a wider range of usefulness in and out of combat. A possible direction to consider for your project that somewhat works around the problem you suggest exists for the concept.


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Bodhizen wrote:
Malwing wrote:

Of the things that I hope that I'm on the nose about is;

Generic vehicle interaction base class.

There is an issue with this concept. It is primarily concerned with "what do you do with the character if you're not near your vehicle?" If you're treating your vehicle much like a mount, then it really belongs as an archetype of paladin or cavalier as opposed to its own class. Is there anything in particular that you envision a generic vehicle interaction base class doing that could not be done via an archetype?

Well obviously a vehicle interaction base class would be able to make drive checks better than anyone but I envision one being able to perform tricks or abilities using vehicles of any caliber. In terms of what they would do outside of combat, I think something along the lines of the Gunslinger's chassis would be appropriate and also for flavor reasons. The way I kind of think about the Gunslinger to kind of brink him away from just being 'the guy with the gun' is that she's someone who dares to use a chunk of metal powered by explosions that can blow up in your face. I think Grit is the real defining mechanic behind the Gunslinger as using such a device requires some amount of passion, confidence and willingness to take risks. I think ultimately a vehicle interaction class would be somewhere along the lines of a Daredevil in an Evel Knievel kind of way. If that were the case then having a Grit-like pool that gives it tricks that it could perform in or out of a vehicle (give him ramming damage as a special charge attack because it's hilarious) and get points back for doing dangerous tasks (much like the Warlord in Path of War.) So in a vehicle it would be a high flying maverick pilot/driver and out of a vehicle it would be a some sort of cinematic action hero with way more luck than than is reasonable.


yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes

Liberty's Edge

For some reason, I think Starseeker would be a better name than Starfinder. And for legitimate reasons, not just because it would be a reference to a song from Unreal (which mixed Fantasy and Science Fiction in a similar manner to this.)

On that note, I hope Auto-magnums are an available weapon alongside everything else... and I also hope that they are very blocky and industrial in aesthetic.


Not a fan of base vehicle pilot classes or new base classes in any way. Too many trips down the unintended consequences aisle.


Bodhizen wrote:


Of course, we welcome your questions!

Considering that Magic and technology is being used together, is there going to be any hard rules about blending the two together?

Like can I make a starship and then bolt on a bunch of +3 adamantine deck plates? Or give rayguns the fiery burst quality... stuff like that.

Liberty's Edge

They aren't rayguns. They're particle projector cannons. But yes, it would be sweet to give Battlemech and/or Starship-sized energy weapons crazy enchantments.


Jeremias wrote:
I'm interested in adventures. One of the biggest selling points of Pathfinder are the AP, at least for me. What's your stance, will there be adventures?

Thank you for your question, Jeremias! I think that an AP in space would be an excellent venture!

gamer-printer wrote:

I built a homebrew base class called Starship Pilot (for my homebrew space setting, which leans more towards tech than magic) that was loosely based off ranger that had some of this "vehicle problem", with piloting skills that improve over level, and ship's gunnery skills (combat style), but I diversified the class by giving sidearm weapon bonuses, vehicle mechanic abilities (to work on broken systems aboard a starship and other vehicles, though not as well as an engineer, another base class of mine), survival skill bonuses (I know US Army helicopter pilots get regular training on survival for the expectation of crashing their craft in wilderness areas), and something I call Starport Savvy, which are bonuses (that improve every few levels, like Favored Terrain) to Appraise, Bluff, Diplomacy, Knowledge (engineering), Knowledge (local), and Sense Motive. Starport Savvy is my way of giving some social skills in dealing with starport administrators, getting reliable parts, finding buyers and sellers of cargo, and finding paying passengers.

Basically a vehicle guy, that has something else to do besides piloting, that can be applied to a wider range of usefulness in and out of combat. A possible direction to consider for your project that somewhat works around the problem you suggest exists for the concept.

It's certainly something to consider, and I thank you for bringing it up, gamer-printer!

Malwing wrote:
Well obviously a vehicle interaction base class would be able to make drive checks better than anyone but I envision one being able to perform tricks or abilities using vehicles of any caliber. In terms of what they would do outside of combat, I think something along the lines of the Gunslinger's chassis would be appropriate and also for flavor reasons. The way I kind of think about the Gunslinger to kind of brink him away from just being 'the guy with the gun' is that she's someone who dares to use a chunk of metal powered by explosions that can blow up in your face. I think Grit is the real defining mechanic behind the Gunslinger as using such a device requires some amount of passion, confidence and willingness to take risks. I think ultimately a vehicle interaction class would be somewhere along the lines of a Daredevil in an Evel Knievel kind of way. If that were the case then having a Grit-like pool that gives it tricks that it could perform in or out of a vehicle (give him ramming damage as a special charge attack because it's hilarious) and get points back for doing dangerous tasks (much like the Warlord in Path of War.) So in a vehicle it would be a high flying maverick pilot/driver and out of a vehicle it would be a some sort of cinematic action hero with way more luck than than is reasonable.

With respect, Malwing, this seems to make an argument for this hypothetical class to be an archetype of Gunslinger.

Seth Dresari wrote:

For some reason, I think Starseeker would be a better name than Starfinder. And for legitimate reasons, not just because it would be a reference to a song from Unreal (which mixed Fantasy and Science Fiction in a similar manner to this.)

On that note, I hope Auto-magnums are an available weapon alongside everything else... and I also hope that they are very blocky and industrial in aesthetic.

Why would you want a modern gun? I am concerned about making Starfinder less "science fiction/fantasy" and too much "science fact". I want to avoid taking this product in a d20 Modern direction.

Freehold DM wrote:
Not a fan of base vehicle pilot classes or new base classes in any way. Too many trips down the unintended consequences aisle.

Thank you for your input, Freehold DM. This is why, if we go that route, we will do so after having fully considered any foreseeable consequences. It's not something that I would enter into lightly.

rungok wrote:

Considering that Magic and technology is being used together, is there going to be any hard rules about blending the two together?

Like can I make a starship and then bolt on a bunch of +3 adamantine deck plates? Or give rayguns the fiery burst quality... stuff like that.

Thank you for your question!

While I understand that space adventures and high-technology often go hand-in-hand, I want to stress, as I have earlier in this discussion, the primary focus of Starfinder is not on expanding Paizo's Technology Guide.

Having said that, it is a possibility, but it would be prohibitively expensive to do so. Let us say, for the sake of argument, that the going price of non-enchanted adamantine is 15,000gp for 100 pounds, which is reasonable since that is the additional cost for a suit of heavy plate, and a set of plate mail in real life weighs about a hundred pounds. One square foot of steel at an inch thick weighs 40.84 pounds. We'll go with one inch for the purposes of easily calculating hardness and so forth. That means that a five by five plate of non-enchanted adamantine should cost around 153,061 gp. If you're plating a 60-foot long by 20-foot wide vessel, that would cost approximately 551,019,600 gp to plate such a vessel in non-enchanted adamantine plates. Plating your vessel in +3 adamantine would increase the cost to approximately 4,959,176,400,000 gp for the materials alone. How much adventuring might you have to do in order to gather almost five trillion gold to buy +3 adamantine plating? Would such a project be worthwhile to plate such a small vessel? Even if you get a 99% discount on the materials, you're still spending about 49.5 billion to plate your vessel.

As for giving a ray-gun the flaming burst quality, there are already rules for that. A normal gravity pistol, for example, with 10 charges costs you 95,000 gp. Adding on the flaming burst quality raises the price to 103,000 gp. The cost is the bonus (+2) squared (+4) times 2,000 gp (8,000 gp). If we were to specifically outline such costs in Starfinder, would that not be a waste of word-count to reiterate existing rules? Would you not feel cheated on your purchase?

Thank you very much for your questions, all! Please feel free to continue to ask away!

The Exchange

Also, the question of adventure paths and such greatly depend on how well this does. I already have in mind a writer for such a project, one with Paizo author-ship experience in such things. It just depends on their availability and interest (and as stated, how well this one does.)

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