Synthesist Summoner Questions


Advice

Scarab Sages

I've done some research into the character creation, but was wondering on the public opinion as to whether its better to straight up "equip" the eidolon all day or summon the eidolon via the Summon Eidolon spell with Augment Summoning feat (+4 STR and +4 Con) and lose out on the ability to have it attack those with Protection vs Evil?


You can still attack with a melee weapon. If you and your eidolon are True Neutral, the protection from... spells shouldn't affect you but that's up to your GM because the spell is poorly written.

You're gaining a small stat boost but losing out on extra attacks and you're subjecting yourself to being taken out of the fight by a dispel magic. It's a bit of a gamble, I'd say.


I wouldn't do it just for augment summon.


I think there's some serious benefit in not having to worry about durations. Protection from alignment spells aren't common among non-outsider, non-humanoid enemies and if that's what you're fighting the power-up is probably worthwhile though. In situations where you think you might be fighting spellcasters you make sure you have the standard eidolon up of course.

Scarab Sages

We're currently running the Kingmaker campaign; my Synthesist is the King/Ruler. Its abit outside the normal books of the campaign, our GM has set up scenarios through the series that he liked to run from other campaigns while keeping the general feel of the world in check.

I have a feeling we'll have many spellcasters as the difficulty level goes up -- we did just finished fighting a Lich at the bottom of an ancient city ruin. And were informed that he'd be back later/he wasn't really dead when our rogue went ape-shyte in his Time Stutter (w/ rod of repetition) spell and got a 2x haste sneak attack off.

I mostly ask because I'm planning on taking the Dimensional Dervish route, and becoming a little wrecking ball of doom. Cross between Nightcrawler and Venom anyone?

and if I'm not gonna need the feat for Augment Summoning/Spell Focus (Conjuration) -- those feats are better spent on additional tools elsewhere.


Well, it is not past argument.

If you do take the feats Augment Summoning and Spell Focus (Conjuration, it seems a pity not to take Superior Summons.

That allows you to make better use of your Summoning SLA. Its a good option, and allows you to do more things, Summoners should not neglect it.


I wouldn't take the feat. It uses up a feat and several spell slots (okay, summoner spells aren't the best, but still). It also leaves you vulnerable during ambushes. Especially if you're hit with something that impedes spellcasting. (i.e. grapple, stun, etc.)

You would also probably need to spend money on armor that won't help in synthesist mode.

I'd run it all day in dangerous areas (travelling, dungeon, etc). I'd have summon eidolon ready for other cases.

I'd worry about the consequences of being a synthesist as potential king. Especially if you look like Venom. That would hinder some ways of getting the goodwill of the populace. It would work great for ruling by fear.

If your eidolon was more angelic, it might be different.

Scarab Sages

Joynt Jezebel wrote:

Well, it is not past argument.

If you do take the feats Augment Summoning and Spell Focus (Conjuration, it seems a pity not to take Superior Summons.

That allows you to make better use of your Summoning SLA. Its a good option, and allows you to do more things, Summoners should not neglect it.

Personally, I believe the better use of my Summoning SLAs would've been spent on Blood-God Summoner to tie in on my Synth, but he was quick to dismiss that.

It'd kinda difficult to use those SLAs when you're always in your "eidolon" which count as being out... and which means you can't really use the daily SLAs...

Scarab Sages

Philo Pharynx wrote:

I wouldn't take the feat. It uses up a feat and several spell slots (okay, summoner spells aren't the best, but still). It also leaves you vulnerable during ambushes. Especially if you're hit with something that impedes spellcasting. (i.e. grapple, stun, etc.)

You would also probably need to spend money on armor that won't help in synthesist mode.

I'd run it all day in dangerous areas (travelling, dungeon, etc). I'd have summon eidolon ready for other cases.

I'd worry about the consequences of being a synthesist as potential king. Especially if you look like Venom. That would hinder some ways of getting the goodwill of the populace. It would work great for ruling by fear.

If your eidolon was more angelic, it might be different.

The venom idea was a brief moment of clarification -- rather I picture my Synthesist as more similar to Sinbad from Magi; an anime/manga that I follow. They "equip" djinns in battle for additional abilities.

https://33.media.tumblr.com/31cf92fa139881611b6a4705065aefc3/tumblr_n37kopM 23p1qhkw3co6_250.gif

To this effect, more or less.


Defiance_v wrote:
Joynt Jezebel wrote:

Well, it is not past argument.

If you do take the feats Augment Summoning and Spell Focus (Conjuration, it seems a pity not to take Superior Summons.

That allows you to make better use of your Summoning SLA. Its a good option, and allows you to do more things, Summoners should not neglect it.

Personally, I believe the better use of my Summoning SLAs would've been spent on Blood-God Summoner to tie in on my Synth, but he was quick to dismiss that.

It'd kinda difficult to use those SLAs when you're always in your "eidolon" which count as being out... and which means you can't really use the daily SLAs...

Synthesists generally don't use their free summons in combat. So spending feats to boost them is sort of pointless. If there were a legal way to trade them out, most people would. As it is, the class is very powerful and I'd suggest just using them to summon creatures that can act as servants when you camp for the night.

-----

Now a master summoner is a different beast altogether. There you want every feat to improve your summons you can get. Expanded, superior, versatile, summon (good/evil/neutral) monster, evolved (multiple times)

Oh yes on multiple evolved summoning.

Scarab Sages

Philo Pharynx wrote:
Defiance_v wrote:
Joynt Jezebel wrote:

Well, it is not past argument.

If you do take the feats Augment Summoning and Spell Focus (Conjuration, it seems a pity not to take Superior Summons.

That allows you to make better use of your Summoning SLA. Its a good option, and allows you to do more things, Summoners should not neglect it.

Personally, I believe the better use of my Summoning SLAs would've been spent on Blood-God Summoner to tie in on my Synth, but he was quick to dismiss that.

It'd kinda difficult to use those SLAs when you're always in your "eidolon" which count as being out... and which means you can't really use the daily SLAs...

Synthesists generally don't use their free summons in combat. So spending feats to boost them is sort of pointless. If there were a legal way to trade them out, most people would. As it is, the class is very powerful and I'd suggest just using them to summon creatures that can act as servants when you camp for the night.

-----

Now a master summoner is a different beast altogether. There you want every feat to improve your summons you can get. Expanded, superior, versatile, summon (good/evil/neutral) monster, evolved (multiple times)

Oh yes on multiple evolved summoning.

Haha. I'm rather new to the Pathfinder world as a whole -- so I wasn't too comfortable when looking at the action economy required of a Master Summoner from Point A.

Its definitely something to look forward to in the future, but in the meanwhile Synthesist Summoner is where I'm at.


Philo Pharynx wrote:

Personally, I believe the better use of my Summoning SLAs would've been spent on Blood-God Summoner to tie in on my Synth, but he was quick to dismiss that.

It'd kinda difficult to use those SLAs when you're always in your "eidolon" which count as being out... and which means you can't really use the daily SLAs...

Synthesists generally don't use their free summons in combat. So spending feats to boost them is sort of pointless. If there were a legal way to trade them out, most people would. As it is, the class is very powerful and I'd suggest just using them to summon creatures that can act as servants when you camp for the night.

-----

Now a master summoner is a different beast altogether. There you want every feat to improve your summons you can get. Expanded, superior, versatile, summon (good/evil/neutral) monster, evolved (multiple times)

Oh yes on multiple evolved summoning.

I think you are right.

Defiance was considering taking augmented summons anyway.

But one of the points of the synthesist is that you can dump most of your physical attributes. Which does mean you want to wear your eidelon all the time.

I think regular summoners tend to under use their SLA. And its always a pity to not use something so good. But just the synthesist has a good reason to keep the eidelon nearly all the time. The SLA is a backup for when the eidelon is temporarily cactus and out of combat utility.


Defiance_v wrote:
Philo Pharynx wrote:
Defiance_v wrote:
Joynt Jezebel wrote:

Well, it is not past argument.

If you do take the feats Augment Summoning and Spell Focus (Conjuration, it seems a pity not to take Superior Summons.

That allows you to make better use of your Summoning SLA. Its a good option, and allows you to do more things, Summoners should not neglect it.

Personally, I believe the better use of my Summoning SLAs would've been spent on Blood-God Summoner to tie in on my Synth, but he was quick to dismiss that.

It'd kinda difficult to use those SLAs when you're always in your "eidolon" which count as being out... and which means you can't really use the daily SLAs...

Synthesists generally don't use their free summons in combat. So spending feats to boost them is sort of pointless. If there were a legal way to trade them out, most people would. As it is, the class is very powerful and I'd suggest just using them to summon creatures that can act as servants when you camp for the night.

-----

Now a master summoner is a different beast altogether. There you want every feat to improve your summons you can get. Expanded, superior, versatile, summon (good/evil/neutral) monster, evolved (multiple times)

Oh yes on multiple evolved summoning.

Haha. I'm rather new to the Pathfinder world as a whole -- so I wasn't too comfortable when looking at the action economy required of a Master Summoner from Point A.

Its definitely something to look forward to in the future, but in the meanwhile Synthesist Summoner is where I'm at.

This might be of no real use to you but I'm going to toss it out there, but does your GM allows for character rebuilds? If so I would suggest you take a look at the Aegis, Soulknife, and possibly the Metaforge.

Power wise you will be a bit less powerful endgame due to not being a caster. But those classes will give you exactly what you are looking for concept wise. And the Aegis can fudge the casting a little bit (with assistance from magic items) if there are specific abilities you want to get your hands on. As an added bonus, they don't really use psionics so you don't even have to get into new rules as a newish player. And you won't feel like you have "dead/unusable" abilities.


If you go the Summon Eidolon route, you can still safely cast the spell with a quicken rod. You'll be vulnerable to anti-summon effects and delay your melee feats by a bit, but overall you won't be that much weaker than a normal synthesist. Augment does also boost your regular summon SLA in case if you need a fallback.

If you like it for the flavor, I'd say go for it, and make getting that quicken rod your first priority. It's nice to go around and interact with people as a dainty humanoid rather than a giant four-armed abomination anyhow =p.

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