ACG errata implementation


Pathfinder Society

1 to 50 of 66 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | next > last >>
1/5

So I'm curious if the leadership has access to the ACG errata and have decided if it'll cause any rebuilds or changes to legal material or any other effects.

5/5 5/55/55/5

Has it been erratad? Not seeing anything on the page

1/5

It's coming in 12 days or less. So it's soon enough that I'm curious if the leadership has early access and are making plans for it

5/5 5/55/55/5

Probably the same way they always are. Changes let you swap out, clarifications do not.

Paizo Employee 4/5 Developer

3 people marked this as a favorite.

Yep, I have read through much of it, and based on what I have read so far, I expect the standard "a rule changed, now what" guidelines that appear on pages 27–28 of the Guide to Pathfinder Society Organized Play should apply in most or all situations.

Liberty's Edge 4/5 5/55/5 **

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Chess Pwn wrote:
So I'm curious if the leadership has access to the ACG errata and have decided if it'll cause any rebuilds or changes to legal material or any other effects.

Other then John below just confirming this, how do you know this?

5/5 5/55/55/5

Steven Lau wrote:
Chess Pwn wrote:
So I'm curious if the leadership has access to the ACG errata and have decided if it'll cause any rebuilds or changes to legal material or any other effects.
Other then John below just confirming this, how do you know this?

And please give your answer directly into the large and obviously not fake flower on the table.


They've said errata would be released between PaizoCon and GenCon.

GenCon starts in 12 days.

Liberty's Edge 4/5 5/55/5 **

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Cheapy wrote:

They've said errata would be released between PaizoCon and GenCon.

GenCon starts in 12 days.

Do you have a Link?


2 people marked this as a favorite.

Yes.

There's also this too.

They've been saying that it'd be released between those dates for a few months now. It's not really a surprise.

Liberty's Edge 4/5 5/55/5 **

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Just curious, it is not something they usually announce until the day of the release.

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5 ***

1 person marked this as a favorite.

They've been extremely open about this process to let as many people see and know that they're fixing it. I give their PR department two thumbs up.

Liberty's Edge

Yeah, it's actually been a pretty huge deal to a lot of people.

1/5

If anything requires, or even allows a character rebuild, releasing the errata well before GenCon would be highly appreciated by a lot of players.

I have 2 characters that might be affected and it would be a pain to need to rebuild both of them at GenCon if the errata came out just before the con or at the con.

5/5 *****

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Marc Radle wrote:
Yeah, it's actually been a pretty huge deal to a lot of people.

I suppose a year after publication of the damn book is better than never.

5/5 5/55/55/5

Nefreet wrote:
They've been extremely open about this process to let as many people see and know that they're fixing it. I give their PR department two thumbs up.

Whats getting the clarificayion bat?

Please tell me the plume of penache will he usable

5/5 *****

1 person marked this as a favorite.
BigNorseWolf wrote:
Nefreet wrote:
They've been extremely open about this process to let as many people see and know that they're fixing it. I give their PR department two thumbs up.

Whats getting the clarificayion bat?

Please tell me the plume of penache will he usable

You might try starting HERE for a list of potential ACG errors. Its only 750 posts or so long.

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5 ***

4 people marked this as a favorite.
andreww wrote:
Marc Radle wrote:
Yeah, it's actually been a pretty huge deal to a lot of people.
I suppose a year after publication of the damn book is better than never.

And a year's worth of comments just like yours hasn't helped.

Liberty's Edge 2/5

9 people marked this as a favorite.
Nefreet wrote:
andreww wrote:
Marc Radle wrote:
Yeah, it's actually been a pretty huge deal to a lot of people.
I suppose a year after publication of the damn book is better than never.
And a year's worth of comments just like yours hasn't helped.

Actually I would say that comments of dissatisfaction like his have indeed helped. When a company releases a substandard product, it is up to the consumers to let them know they are displeased and to hold them to a higher standard.

People have every right to express their negative opinions of a product if they feel that it is not up to the standard of publishing quality Paizo should be producing. There is a lot of frustration regarding the sloppy, slap-dash quality of the ACG and how it seemed rushed out to fit a deadline without sufficient quality control, resulting in far too many errors and confusing or conflicting rules. The fact that they waited an entire year to correct all those mistakes is worthy of criticism as well.

Customer dissatisfaction is a driving force in improving business and product quality, if there is nothing but praise and shouting down of any complaints then you breed complacency, which leads to a further degradation in quality.

Paizo is a company, not a friend or someone putting out a freebie product in their spare time, and it is up to the customers of that company to demand and ensure a certain standard of excellence. I like the product they produce, I make sure to purchase everything in the printed RPG line (save for a few out of print maps and older Modules/APs), and I know that I personally want them to continue printing high quality releases to add to my collection, and not ones that look like they came from a second rate publisher.

So yes, a year's worth of comments like his and others should indeed have helped, considering that Paizo does seem interested in putting out the best product that they can.

1/5 5/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

It's actually exceptionally pertinent to many players and hope to play at the convention. As noted, there are many holes right now that leave a player scratching their head and hoping for the best, and others that have almost assuredly been abused to excess.

After all, a *lot* of folks I know use HeroLab to create their characters, and it takes them time to implement errata.

Negativity should be discouraged, but customer dissatisfaction should be dealt with soonest in an appropriate and positive manner, that leaves both the customer and the merchant satisfied.

Grand Lodge 4/5 **** Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento

There was a post somewhere in there that was something like:

"It will either be released before gencon, while we are still in the office to answer questions. Or it will be late and offered after gen con, but it won't happen during gencon because we do not have the technical and process capability to issue it when that many people are out of the office."

Liberty's Edge 1/5

Fomsie wrote:
Nefreet wrote:
andreww wrote:
Marc Radle wrote:
Yeah, it's actually been a pretty huge deal to a lot of people.
I suppose a year after publication of the damn book is better than never.
And a year's worth of comments just like yours hasn't helped.

Actually I would say that comments of dissatisfaction like his have indeed helped. When a company releases a substandard product, it is up to the consumers to let them know they are displeased and to hold them to a higher standard.

People have every right to express their negative opinions of a product if they feel that it is not up to the standard of publishing quality Paizo should be producing. There is a lot of frustration regarding the sloppy, slap-dash quality of the ACG and how it seemed rushed out to fit a deadline without sufficient quality control, resulting in far too many errors and confusing or conflicting rules. The fact that they waited an entire year to correct all those mistakes is worthy of criticism as well.

Customer dissatisfaction is a driving force in improving business and product quality, if there is nothing but praise and shouting down of any complaints then you breed complacency, which leads to a further degradation in quality.

Paizo is a company, not a friend or someone putting out a freebie product in their spare time, and it is up to the customers of that company to demand and ensure a certain standard of excellence. I like the product they produce, I make sure to purchase everything in the printed RPG line (save for a few out of print maps and older Modules/APs), and I know that I personally want them to continue printing high quality releases to add to my collection, and not ones that look like they came from a second rate publisher.

So yes, a year's worth of comments like his and others should indeed have helped, considering that Paizo does seem interested in putting out the best product that they can.

#1 Paizo has repeatedly shown that they take pride in their work so customer dissatisfaction is not necessary to see improvement.

#2 posts that complain, but offer nothing concrete or specific about what is wrong actually have zero value in helping to fix problems

#3 they waited a year to ensure that the fixes were not slapdash and sloppy. Make up your mind either you want it fast or you want it right. You can't have both.

#4 Nefreet never said anything about andreww's right to post, he said it was not helpful.

Grand Lodge 4/5 **** Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento

graywulfe wrote:
#3 they waited a year to ensure that the fixes were not slapdash and sloppy. Make up your mind either you want it fast or you want it right. You can't have both.

Technically, you can. The usual formulation is "You can have it fast, cheap or correct. Pick any two."

In this case you can have it fast and right, but you will pay through the nose. Since we are getting it for free, expecting it to be fast or right does seem pretty unreasonable. I will settle for "soonish and better."

1/5 5/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
FLite wrote:
graywulfe wrote:
#3 they waited a year to ensure that the fixes were not slapdash and sloppy. Make up your mind either you want it fast or you want it right. You can't have both.

Technically, you can. The usual formulation is "You can have it fast, cheap or correct. Pick any two."

In this case you can have it fast and right, but you will pay through the nose. Since we are getting it for free, expecting it to be fast or right does seem pretty unreasonable. I will settle for "soonish and better."

Except there are those of us who already made an investment in a flawed product and customer service would be to make things right for the customer at whatever cost the company could bear, as it is the corporation's reputation on the line. That's how it runs at my workplace, at least?

In addition, there may be folks who are holding off on purchasing *any other* Paizo products until the issues with ACG are resolved.

Truth in advertising, I'm not one of these, I picked up the Unchained and UE books while waiting to hear back on the errata.

EDIT: It bears noting that the mistakes from ACG HAVE been learned from, so the experience has been useful in subsequent products... /EDIT

This being said, it'd be nice to see what is actually going on before there's a point where I can no longer implement it and I end up having 'illegal' characters at a major gaming convention. Talk about embarrassing.

Grand Lodge 4/5 **** Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento

Wei Ji the Learner wrote:
FLite wrote:
graywulfe wrote:
#3 they waited a year to ensure that the fixes were not slapdash and sloppy. Make up your mind either you want it fast or you want it right. You can't have both.

Technically, you can. The usual formulation is "You can have it fast, cheap or correct. Pick any two."

In this case you can have it fast and right, but you will pay through the nose. Since we are getting it for free, expecting it to be fast or right does seem pretty unreasonable. I will settle for "soonish and better."

Except there are those of us who already made an investment in a flawed product and customer service would be to make things right for the customer at whatever cost the company could bear, as it is the corporation's reputation on the line. That's how it runs at my workplace, at least?

I guarantee you that is not *actually* how it works at your work place. No one is taking the company one dollar from bankruptcy to fix an error for the customer.

In this case, they paid outside editors to come in and check everything, and then went back and checked the outside editors work. *Paizo* is getting it quick (twice as fast as normal, even though there is something like 10 times as many errors) and correct, but it cost them an arm and a leg.

*You* the customer are getting it free, mostly right, and it is going to take some time.

Paizo Employee Publisher, Chief Creative Officer

8 people marked this as a favorite.
FLite wrote:

There was a post somewhere in there that was something like:

"It will either be released before gencon, while we are still in the office to answer questions. Or it will be late and offered after gen con, but it won't happen during gencon because we do not have the technical and process capability to issue it when that many people are out of the office."

This is incorrect.

The errata is coming BEFORE Gen Con, as I said it would.

Thanks for your patience, everyone. I know this one has been a long time coming.

Shadow Lodge 4/5

Nefreet wrote:
andreww wrote:
Marc Radle wrote:
Yeah, it's actually been a pretty huge deal to a lot of people.
I suppose a year after publication of the damn book is better than never.
And a year's worth of comments just like yours hasn't helped.

Well, being that we are not waiting multiple years, (or forever, cough, cough, CORERULEBOOK. . . cough, cough), it clearly has.

Silver Crusade 2/5

DM Beckett wrote:
Nefreet wrote:
andreww wrote:
Marc Radle wrote:
Yeah, it's actually been a pretty huge deal to a lot of people.
I suppose a year after publication of the damn book is better than never.
And a year's worth of comments just like yours hasn't helped.
Well, being that we are not waiting multiple years, (or forever, cough, cough, CORERULEBOOK. . . cough, cough), it clearly has.

The Core Rulebook has been errataed 5 times. Scroll down to 'Errata Documents' to choose which version you need. If there is something in the CRB you think needs further errata, perhaps there is a good place to suggest it.

5/5 *****

It's out although whether that is a good thing or not is a matter of some debate.

1/5

I'm curious now if the Legality of some items will be changed, I feel a lot of the changes were on illegal stuff trying to make it a legal option

Scarab Sages

Yeah. Mutation Warrior and Cape of Feinting can be added with no problems now.

4/5

Generally speaking a lot of options in ACG were banned not for roleplay reasons but for reasons of balance. Seeing stuff get fixed means we'll have more options, not less :).

Grand Lodge 3/5

I'm having trouble parsing out what the normal rebuild rules even mean, let alone how they apply to the ACG errata.

Quote:
If a class, prestige class, or a class feature-dependent ability score is altered: You may rebuild your character to its current XP, maintaining the same equipment.

Is that:

"class", "prestige class", or "a class feature dependent ability score",

or

"class, prestige class, or class feature-dependent" ability score?

That's the only clause I can see that would let a Magus with Arcane Deed(Precise Strike) retrain it, but they'd get a full rebuild?

I'm sure that clause has been clarified to death somewhere, but my search fu can't find it.

Grand Lodge 4/5

The former.

3/5

The first one, Markov.

4/5 ****

I think the only parsing that makes the wording make sense is:

(class, prestige class, or class feature) dependent ability score

Not

class, prestige class or (class feature-dependent ability score)

<The Dash being the break at the end of the list, not combining feature-dependent>

Grand Lodge 3/5

Thanks. So what does that mean practically? Are archetype or arcana changes class alterations?

Long story short, what does the current RAW (assuming no PFS specific ruling as there usually is for big changes like this) mean for a Magus with Arcane Deed(Precise Strike)?

What about a Kata Master monk?

Grand Lodge 3/5

Pirate Rob - I'ver never seen a dash used that way in a list, I certainly assumed it was a hyphenated word. Regardless, I would have thought someone had already talked the actually meaning of that sentence to death somewhere?

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5 ***

I'm more focusing on the "maintaining the same equipment" line of those rules.

One of my characters purchased an item that no longer functions because of the errata.

It seems I'm out half the money I spent on it.

4/5 ****

It's always possible that John will clome along and give us some more guidance on rebuilds due to ACG errata.

Maybe on the Monday PFS blog, or the new guide to organized play will better cover things like this.

(It is quite common for PFS to have specific rules regarding retraining based on changing rules elements that are not well covered by the guide)

I think the guide does not cover everything here well such as classes that lost parry/riposte or slashing grace losing the ability to TWF.

Grand Lodge 4/5

Except that prior to this, John said he expected the guide's rules to cover most, if not all, the errata's changes.

Silver Crusade 3/5

I hope you are right, Rob.

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5 ***

On the plus side, my Bolt Ace just got a free Darkwood Launching Crossbow added to his ITS, and the proficiency to use it, so I guess for me it's a wash.

EDIT: haha, just noticed your other thread, Rob. I guess I'll take the discussion over there =P

Scarab Sages

Nefreet wrote:

On the plus side, my Bolt Ace just got a free Darkwood Launching Crossbow added to his ITS, and the proficiency to use it, so I guess for me it's a wash.

EDIT: haha, just noticed your other thread, Rob. I guess I'll take the discussion over there =P

He would get a free Masterwork Launching Crossbow, but it doesn't mention special materials, so I would assume it's just a normal masterwork version.

Scarab Sages 4/5

Markov Spiked Chain wrote:
Pirate Rob - I'ver never seen a dash used that way in a list, I certainly assumed it was a hyphenated word. Regardless, I would have thought someone had already talked the actually meaning of that sentence to death somewhere?

The rebuild rules is one section of the guide I'm hoping is clarified with the update. This specific issue is one that was posted to the thread with suggested updates/areas of clarification. So, I'll keep my fingers crossed until the guide comes out (maybe in Monday's blog?) I don't have any characters that are drastically affected by this, and I'm not going to Gen Con, so I have the luxury to wait it out. I know not everyone does.

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5 ***

Imbicatus wrote:
Nefreet wrote:
On the plus side, my Bolt Ace just got a free Darkwood Launching Crossbow added to his ITS
He would get a free Masterwork Launching Crossbow, but it doesn't mention special materials, so I would assume it's just a normal masterwork version.

Hmm. We assume differently, then.

Any non-masterwork firearm you would have received for free via Gunsmithing is worth more than any Darkwood crossbow you'd get now. Even more so when you consider that with Gunsmithing you can upgrade that firearm to become masterwork.

For me, when reading "masterwork", and I look and see that Darkwood is masterwork, the pieces fit perfectly.

Scarab Sages

For me, I look at the other classes that start with a free masterwork item, wizards. Arcane Bond specifies that any masterwork weapon gained at first level is not made of any special materials. Granted, being darkwood doesn't add much to a crossbow, but it is something.

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5 ***

And that would by why, IMO, with the thoroughness of this errata document, that that limiting text was chosen to be left out.

Plus, there's only two special materials you could use for a crossbow. People won't be able to get a free Adamantine or Mithral crossbow this route.

4/5 ****

I believe you get a masterwork crossbow of your choice.

I don't believe you can make it out of a special material just like the Wizard bonded item can't come with any other extras. (like materials, or composite strength etc)

Paizo Employee 4/5 Developer

6 people marked this as a favorite.

As a heads-up, Monday's blog is going to release the updated Guide to Pathfinder Society Organized Play, which contains expanded ways to retrain your character following a playtest or errata. It doesn't fix every concern, but it does address numerous concerns.

These include more generous reselling of obsolete equipment, broader retraining of feat prerequisites, and clearer instructions for how to handle an item whose price has changed.

1 to 50 of 66 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | next > last >>
Community / Forums / Organized Play / Pathfinder Society / ACG errata implementation All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.