Rogue Unchained + Finesse Training + Effortless Lace


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion


Mkay so I'm just a little confused. Allow me to break things down:

Effortless Lace, according to its description, qualifies a weapon to be used with Weapon Finesse. Therefore, logically, it should qualify that weapon to be used with Finesse Training, right?

Or is Finesse Training limited to rapiers and light weapons...?

Also, Finesse Training, like other feats/abilities that say "this choice cannot be changed", CAN be changed via retraining, can it not? Because, as my understanding goes, when you retrain, you re-obtain the ability in question.

Thoughts?

[EDIT/ADDITIONAL QUESTION]

The Skill Unlock for Stealth says that, at 15 ranks, "If you attack after successfully using Stealth, your target is denied its Dexterity bonus against all attacks that you make before the end of your turn." Sneak attack specifically says "The rogue’s attack deals extra damage anytime her target would be denied a Dexterity bonus to AC".

Does that mean that, if I were stealthed up before I made a full-round attack, each hit would proc Sneak Attack damage? If so, that's way broken. hahaha


Epic Hoagie wrote:

[EDIT/ADDITIONAL QUESTION]

The Skill Unlock for Stealth says that, at 15 ranks, "If you attack after successfully using Stealth, your target is denied its Dexterity bonus against all attacks that you make before the end of your turn." Sneak attack specifically says "The rogue’s attack deals extra damage anytime her target would be denied a Dexterity bonus to AC".

Does that mean that, if I were stealthed up before I made a full-round attack, each hit would proc Sneak Attack damage? If so, that's way broken. hahaha

At 15th level? Not really.


Ventnor wrote:
Epic Hoagie wrote:

[EDIT/ADDITIONAL QUESTION]

The Skill Unlock for Stealth says that, at 15 ranks, "If you attack after successfully using Stealth, your target is denied its Dexterity bonus against all attacks that you make before the end of your turn." Sneak attack specifically says "The rogue’s attack deals extra damage anytime her target would be denied a Dexterity bonus to AC".

Does that mean that, if I were stealthed up before I made a full-round attack, each hit would proc Sneak Attack damage? If so, that's way broken. hahaha

At 15th level? Not really.

Not to mention this can be done as early as 8th level with a flanker and iterative attacks. or even earlier with 2 weapon fighting and a flanker. thats not at all unbroken.

As to the other questions. Yes this works with Finesse Training for the rogue and the weapon is now considered a "Light melee weapon" and qualifies to be used with the Weapon Finesse Feat. Finesse Training says you choose any weapon that can be used with Weapon Finesse. So yes a Medium sized Longsword wielded by a human can now be used with Weapon Finesse once you apply the Effortless Lace.

As to the retraining question. I think it would be a stretch of the rules as RAW to do because retraining assumes you are going to select a different ability, not just a weapon choice. Since your asking to retrain the same ability. that will have to be up to the gm at your table.

EDIT: thank you for brining this item to my attention. this makes my TWF fighter builds more awesome as I would prefer to TWF with one handed melee weapons instead of Light ones. because lets be honest if Skyrim can dual wield Katanas so can Pathfinder lol. This also means my Large Barbarian wielding 2 huge Greatswords with the Tiefling Oversized Limb ability is just tops.


Alric Rahl wrote:
Ventnor wrote:
Epic Hoagie wrote:

[EDIT/ADDITIONAL QUESTION]

The Skill Unlock for Stealth says that, at 15 ranks, "If you attack after successfully using Stealth, your target is denied its Dexterity bonus against all attacks that you make before the end of your turn." Sneak attack specifically says "The rogue’s attack deals extra damage anytime her target would be denied a Dexterity bonus to AC".

Does that mean that, if I were stealthed up before I made a full-round attack, each hit would proc Sneak Attack damage? If so, that's way broken. hahaha

At 15th level? Not really.

Not to mention this can be done as early as 8th level with a flanker and iterative attacks. or even earlier with 2 weapon fighting and a flanker. thats not at all unbroken.

As to the other questions. Yes this works with Finesse Training for the rogue and the weapon is now considered a "Light melee weapon" and qualifies to be used with the Weapon Finesse Feat. Finesse Training says you choose any weapon that can be used with Weapon Finesse. So yes a Medium sized Longsword wielded by a human can now be used with Weapon Finesse once you apply the Effortless Lace.

As to the retraining question. I think it would be a stretch of the rules as RAW to do because retraining assumes you are going to select a different ability, not just a weapon choice. Since your asking to retrain the same ability. that will have to be up to the gm at your table.

EDIT: thank you for brining this item to my attention. this makes my TWF fighter builds more awesome as I would prefer to TWF with one handed melee weapons instead of Light ones. because lets be honest if Skyrim can dual wield Katanas so can Pathfinder lol. This also means my Large Barbarian wielding 2 huge Greatswords with the Tiefling Oversized Limb ability is just tops.

Ohhhh yeah, I've found that Tengu fighters with dual Katana enchanted with Impact, Speed, and some other third thing can be absolute wood chippers. XD

Thanks for the clarification, both of you! Much obliged!

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / General Discussion / Rogue Unchained + Finesse Training + Effortless Lace All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.
Recent threads in General Discussion