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So I have yet to make an unchained monk, and my only experience with monk beforehand is I played a martial artist monk a few years ago. I THINK I get the new flurry of blows (it's just an extra attack at full BAB now). So, because it's not an approximation of TwF anymore, can you use it in CONJUNCTION with TwF? And how does this interact with things like double weapons? Ordinarily when you're using a double weapon, and you're using TwF to attack with both sides, it's treated as one-handed for damage calculation purposes. If you're making a regular attack, you can treat it as 2-handed to put all your power behind one end of the weapon.
Since the new flurry just gives you a free bonus attack, would you get to choose between using the double weapon as a two-hander OR for its intended double use? And if you also have TwF, could you stack the two abilities? What would all this mean for a TwF/ double weapon build?
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He takes no penalty for using multiple weapons when making a flurry of blows, but he does not gain any additional attacks beyond what’s already granted by the flurry for doing so.
You still cannot use in conjunction with TWF, because Flurry specifically denies it. You can use a double weapon or multiple weapons in the flurry, but you do not get extra attacks for doing so.
Because the unchained monk gets 1.5 STR with two-handed weapons, you are better off using a double weapon as a two-handed weapon instead of as a double weapon.
What Imbicatus said.
No TWF while flurrying. Double weapons really aren't useful to flurry with.
You're honestly better off just picking up a two handed weapon that qualifies for use with flurry, or a one handed weapon wielded in two hands.
I believe the temple sword is popular.
What Imbicatus said.
No TWF while flurrying. Double weapons really aren't useful to flurry with.
You're honestly better off just picking up a two handed weapon that qualifies for use with flurry, or a one handed weapon wielded in two hands.
I believe the temple sword is popular.
With the new monk, you're better off with a weapon made out of wood so it can be made out of Wyroot. It really needs the KI point recovery. A Sansetsukon is a nice option.
Is there a high crit range monk weapon that could be made from wyroot?
Can't TWF and Flurry in Unchained Monk either. It is less attacks because they made them full bab.
Indeed, but its honestly much better getting extra attacks at full BAB then extra attacks at dwindling BAB. You might not get as many, but I'm certain that on average you will do more damage with the new flurry than the old, unless you were fighting something with incredibly low AC.
Don't take my comment wrong, I'm a true believer (fan) of Unchained Monk. Even with the change in saves. Just wish more archetypes worked with it.
I didn't think you weren't. And I believe eventually they'll get around to giving the UMonk archetypes that will work with him. Just needs more time. The UMonk is already a good improvement over most monk builds, outside of a few very specific highly optimized builds.
Don't take my comment wrong, I'm a true believer (fan) of Unchained Monk. Even with the change in saves. Just wish more archetypes worked with it.
If you are willing to use 3rd party products -- Alexander Augunas at Everyman Gaming has already addressed conversions of most if not all of the monk archetypes to use the unchained monk as a base. Only a couple of them required him to do anything more than apply a half-page sidebar that he helpfully included in both of his monk archetype PDFs.
Don't take my comment wrong, I'm a true believer (fan) of Unchained Monk. Even with the change in saves. Just wish more archetypes worked with it.If you are willing to use 3rd party products -- Alexander Augunas at Everyman Gaming has already addressed conversions of most if not all of the monk archetypes to use the unchained monk as a base. Only a couple of them required him to do anything more than apply a half-page sidebar that he helpfully included in both of his monk archetype PDFs.
More often than not, it isn't willingness to use 3PP that is the issue. It is the ability (aka GM permission) to do so :(
In that respect, an GM that would allow you to use the 3PP would have just made the changes themselves.
Don't take my comment wrong, I'm a true believer (fan) of Unchained Monk. Even with the change in saves. Just wish more archetypes worked with it.If you are willing to use 3rd party products -- Alexander Augunas at Everyman Gaming has already addressed conversions of most if not all of the monk archetypes to use the unchained monk as a base. Only a couple of them required him to do anything more than apply a half-page sidebar that he helpfully included in both of his monk archetype PDFs.
More often than not, it isn't willingness to use 3PP that is the issue. It is the ability (aka GM permission) to do so :(
In that respect, an GM that would allow you to use the 3PP would have just made the changes themselves.
Yep, this is my experience too. there is lots of cool stuff I'd like to try out but most often I'm restricted to paizo stuff only. I taken a look at Everyman Gaming's work though, and it's good stuff. It would save a lot of work to a DM that wanted monk archetypes to continue to work with unchained monks.
Yes, the monk can use TWF and FoB together.
The "multiple weapons" referred to in the FoB text is NOT referring to TWF, it is referring to the monks ability to use different monk weapons and combinations of unarmed strikes.
Our group has a diagreement on this, there are posts all over the place that disagree on this. altho the concensus seems to be that it is NOT allowed.
For Pity's sake Paizo, it's been years, your PAYING customers would really like an answer to this question. How about a FAQ post?
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Flurry of Blows (Ex): At 1st level, a monk can make a flurry of blows as a full-attack action. When making a flurry of blows, the monk can make one additional attack at his highest base attack bonus. This additional attack stacks with the bonus attacks from haste and other similar effects. When using this ability, the monk can make these attacks with any combination of his unarmed strikes and weapons that have the monk special weapon quality. He takes no penalty for using multiple weapons when making a flurry of blows, but he does not gain any additional attacks beyond what's already granted by the flurry for doing so. (He can still gain additional attacks from a high base attack bonus, from this ability, and from haste and similar effects).
At 11th level, a monk can make an additional attack at his highest base attack bonus whenever he makes a flurry of blows. This stacks with the first attack from this ability and additional attacks from haste and similar effects.
Seems pretty unambiguous. No extra attacks from multiple weapons (meaning two or more), does gain extra attacks bab, haste, similar (no mention of extra attacks from two-weapon fighting.)
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It seems in your post above this one that you were quoting the same part I did. Also, "a monk can make a flurry of blows as a full-attack action" so the flurry of blows is your full-attack action; there isn't an "after"."He takes no penalty for using multiple weapons when making a flurry of blows, but he does not gain any additional attacks beyond what’s already granted by the flurry for doing so." Natural weapons are weapons, so you don't gain any additional attacks for using them.His idea is that you do the flurry with your other weapon and then add on the natural attacks extra to the full-attack action after the flurry.
There's your dev post. It's about natural attacks buts it's equally valid for TWF. You don't gain any additional attacks, and Flurry is it's own full attack action so you can't combine other modifiers that are done as a part of a full attack action.
Thank you ever so much! We had 4 people looking around for that answer we had all heard existed. Sorry I was a bit pissy in my first post. No morning coffee yet and 2nd day of debate amongst our group.
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