CloudKicker |
So in a session I had a couple nights ago a player used an AoE attack -that had the blunt and slashing properties- to hit an enemy that had objects around himself, he was using as weapons. My question is would the objects that are being used as weapons that are with in the AoE around the target be able to be sundered from the damage that the AoE attack did?
Gauss |
I assume you mean blunderbuss, a gunpowder weapon, rather than blunder bust.
So here are the relevant rules:
SCATTER (WEAPON QUALITY): A weapon with the scatter weapon quality can shoot two different types of ammunition. It can fire normal bullets that target one creature, or it can make a scattering shot, attacking all creatures within a cone. Cannons with the scatter weapon quality only fire grapeshot, unless their descriptions state otherwise. When a scatter weapon attacks all creatures within a cone, it makes a separate attack roll against each creature within the cone. Each attack roll takes a –2 penalty, and its attack damage cannot be modified by precision damage or damage-increasing feats such as Vital Strike. Effects that grant concealment, such as fog or smoke, or the blur, invisibility, or mirror image spells, do not foil a scatter attack. If any of the attack rolls threaten a critical, confirm the critical for that attack roll alone. A firearm that makes a scatter shot misfires only if all of the attack rolls are misfires. If a scatter weapon explodes on a misfire, it deals triple its damage to all creatures within the misfire radius.
So, according to the bolded section, scatter can be used to attack creatures. There is no indication in the above rule that it can be used to attack objects.
However, in combination with the Sunder (or Smashing an Object) rules, it might be allowed to do so, but it would be a grey area, check with your GM.
Next, any object that the creature was using in hand (and probably via magic depending on the effect) is considered an attended object. Any sunder attack against such an object would have to be rolled against the (much higher) CMD of the creature, and not the object's AC.
Finally, doing this with a blunderbuss is probably not going to do any damage.
Chains have a hardness of 10 and the maximum damage of the blunderbuss (barring things like enhancement bonuses) is 8. Even with a +5 weapon you will only be doing a maximum of 3 points of damage, itll take a minimum of 2 rounds to destroy your average chain (probably many more).
Gauss |
They are both Area of Effect attacks. The difference between Dragon's Breath and a normal Scatter shot is that Dragon's Breath does not have an attack roll, it uses a reflex save instead.
So lets look at Dragon's Breath:
Dragon’s Breath Cartridge: This cartridge contains alchemical compounds that, when fired, produce a cone of fire instead of the normal attack of a one-handed or two-handed firearm with the scatter weapon quality. The nonmagical flame deals 2d6 points of fire damage to all targets within the cone of the scatter firearm (DC 15 Reflex save for half). These cartridges cannot be used in firearms that don’t have the scatter weapon quality. Because this ammunition forces a saving throw instead of making an attack roll, the misfire rules are slightly different. If you roll a 1 with either of the damage dice, the firearm misfires.
The bolded text states that it uses the scatter weapon's cone (area).
But, what that text does not state is that it allows you to attack objects. So again, there is no indication that it can be used to attack objects.
However, many effects (such as the spell Fireball) state that they damage unattended objects. Additionally, the rules on CRB p174 state that nonmagical objects do not get a saving throw if they are unattended.
So, assuming your GM rules that the attack can hit unattended objects they would take 2d6 fire damage - hardness (maximum, 2 damage) with no save. However, if they are magical they get a save.
If the object is attended it cannot be damaged by Dragon's Breath unless the wielder rolls a 1 on his save and then it might be damaged if it is the object randomly hit (see Table 9-2 on CRB p216 and the rules for Items Surviving a Saving Throw on CRB p217).
Assuming everything works in the shooter's favor, and the object is unattended and not magical the chain will probably still not take any damage. The player would have to roll 11 or 12 on the 2d6 damage roll for the chain to take any damage. The odds of this are 8.33%.
Additionally, a 1 on either of the 2d6 damage dice is a misfire. That is significantly higher odds of a misfire (30.55%). He wont be doing this very often.
So below is how I would do this if I were GMing.
1) Can the player make an attack against objects using this with Dragon's Breath?
This is a GM call, I would say yes.
2) Are the objects attended?
Yes, the player cannot attack the objects, he must attack the wielder.
No, the player may proceed to #3.
3) Are the objects magical?
Yes, they get a save.
No, they do not get a save.
4) When rolling damage, did the player roll a 1?
Yes, misfire
No, no misfire
5) After the saving throw (if there was one), did the damage exceed the hardness of the objects?
Yes, apply that damage.
No, no damage.
Final thought: assuming the GM used hardness properly, this is a very poor option for destroying unattended chains. Only an 8.33% chance of damaging them in any round (1 or 2 points) but a 30.55% chance of a misfire.
FLite |
As a general rule, Pathfinder combat is highly cinematic, and unless otherwise stated, attacks, whether they are area effect or not, do not chew up the scenery.
While this is highly unrealistic, it has the added benefit that the GM doesn't have to work out damage to everything in the room every time the mage throws a fireball, so we mostly live with it.
Also, pathfinder objects tend to be built to survive in a world where people run around throwing fireballs.
Gauss |
I forgot a rule, energy damage and ranged attacks are halved when applied to objects. There is zero chance that the Dragon's Breath or the Blunderbuss using shot to do damage to the chains.
Energy Attacks: Energy attacks deal half damage to most objects. Divide the damage by 2 before applying the object’s hardness. Some energy types might be particularly effective against certain objects, subject to GM discretion. For example, fire might do full damage against parchment, cloth, and other objects that burn easily. Sonic might do full damage against glass and crystal objects.
Ranged Weapon Damage: Objects take half damage from ranged weapons (unless the weapon is a siege engine or something similar—see page 434). Divide the damage dealt by 2 before applying the object’s hardness.