First-Time GM with 5 First-Time Players, Advice?


Advice


So a group of friends and I have decided to start a Pathfinder group. They elected me the GM and honestly, it's absolutely what I want to do because I love improvisation and creativity.

So our first session is Monday night and I have already purchased the Core Rule Book and decided on playing a pre-made module. (Hollow's Last Hope)

I have never played a tabletop RPG so I am coming at this completely new. I have watched YouTube videos, read articles and I played a mini-session with two PC's a couple days ago. Well, the mini-session went great and I learned a lot that I had not thought about. (Like how much a room at my Inn costs.) I still had to stop frequently because I wasn't sure how to proceed. It seems like a lot of GM'ing isn't about concrete rules but just going with whatever the players want to do within reason. (For example, one of my PC's wanted to dissect a shocker lizard to take its heart. I didn't know if it could be used for anything official and I assumed it didn't but it might come in handy, so I let him.)

Combat was interesting, I'm still trying to figure out when attacks of opportunity's happen and what to do if my PC's run out of spells and potions halfway through a dungeon, especially when the tougher enemies are ahead.

So I have a binder of prepared material for Monday night. I've got a lot of local information memorized and the main NPC's are listed on a separate sheet. I don't have the beastiary so I just printed out all the mobs included in my module, along with a bunch of 'spare' mobs in case my PC's go off into 'La-La Land'. (I've heard they do that.) Also, I created my own little mini-quest involving a small cave and a large bear that simply loops them back around to the main module.

Oh, I almost forgot. In my mini-session, I was using the module 'The Fallen Fortress' and in one of the rooms, there is a dead dog with a jewel-encrusted collar worth 50gp. Well, it also had a name engraved on it. Well, of course my PC's would want to head back into Absalom and start asking around to find the owner of the dog. I had to make up a bunch of random NPC's on the fly and think of a rich nobleman that they find and he rewarded them with 100gp. They were so happy that they did it and it wasn't anywhere in the module.

So anyways, It's a little less than a week away and I was wondering what last-minute advice you experienced guys and gals could give a fledgling GM about to jump into a campaign with a group of equally newbish players?

Thanks!

~ Jason


jj_maxx wrote:
what to do if my PC's run out of spells and potions halfway through a dungeon, especially when the tougher enemies are ahead.

Normally in that case, the PCs would leave the dungeon, find somewhere safe, and then rest until they get their spells back.

jj_maxx wrote:
I don't have the beastiary so I just printed out all the mobs included in my module

Tip: don't use MMO-speak like 'mob' in the presence of hardcore tabletop players.

Some general tips here.


Do not be afraid to make shit up on the fly.

When someone inevitably wants to open a book for 5 minutes, for some menial task, just make the decision before they even reach for it.

Nothing can bring a fun game to a halt faster than someone pausing everything to read a book.


Try to remember that the BBEG (Big Bad Evil Guy/Girl) probably has some plans going on, and is not likely to sit around waiting for the players to come fight him when they're ready.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Jason --

You're starting at low level, so you and your players can learn as you go. That's great. It sounds like you already have most of the tools you need to succeed. You know how to improvise, you know how to tell a story, and you've even played a mini-game.

You're doing great!

What else would I do?

Review combat rules. Know the difference between free actions, move actions, standard actions, etc. Look over all your monsters and be sure you know what they can do. Get familiar with your setting.

Pre-draw your maps. Keep initiative moving. If you can have a player keep track of initiative for you that might take pressure off.

Be willing to makes mistakes, fail, and then learn from them.

Listen to your players, but be firm. If any of them try to become power-dominating munchkins, having clear rules can help mitigate things.

Have fun and they will too.

Hmm


Matthew Downie wrote:
Normally in that case, the PCs would leave the dungeon, find somewhere safe, and then rest until they get their spells back.

Thanks for this, that's a good idea.

Matthew Downie wrote:
Tip: don't use MMO-speak like 'mob' in the presence of hardcore tabletop players.

Oh my, sorry! Sometimes my video game knowledge creeps in.

Matthew Downie wrote:
Some general tips here.

This is great advice! I'm gonna bookmark this! Thanks.


Sounds like you're making the right decisions and being flexible/improvising. Mastery of the rules will come, learning flexibility is harder, so good on you.

Try to 'work ahead', sketch out a few NPCs (just race, name and class level) in advance. The more named people you have, the more real the world will be and if you need to improvise on the fly, you will have some people already half created.

Vary roleplaying encounters with combat encounters, see what folks enjoy most.

Ask questions about how things went, especially if there's a player in the group you know and trust.

Most of all, have fun!


If you have access to the internet while gaming, you can use this link to find all sorts of statblocks sorted by their challenge rating. Should give you lots to work with and get inspired by!

Sounds like you are doing great though! Keep it up. :)


2 people marked this as a favorite.
jj_maxx wrote:
Matthew Downie wrote:
Normally in that case, the PCs would leave the dungeon, find somewhere safe, and then rest until they get their spells back.
Thanks for this, that's a good idea.

It's good if, when the players leave a place and then come back, things have changed in their absence; the denizens have had time to prepare ambushes, or whatever. This discourages 'rest after every battle' syndrome.

Liberty's Edge

Aleron wrote:

If you have access to the internet while gaming, you can use this link to find all sorts of statblocks sorted by their challenge rating. Should give you lots to work with and get inspired by!

Sounds like you are doing great though! Keep it up. :)

This^^ is really handy, I'd also suggest using the NPC codex if your characters stray from the path, and all of a sudden you need stats for the town guard/the town drunk/the local merchants/pretty much any NPC you might encounter. Just having access to the PRD can save you a lot of prep time, as the other solution is to stat everything out beforehand, which takes a ton of time, or to make things up on the fly, which isn't that easy when you're first starting out.

Also, if you're just starting out, a good way to learn the rules is to show up to some PFS games, if there happens to be any local games going on that is. I find most of the the PFS crowd to be fairly knowledgeable, and playing can definitely help hammer down the basics like different actions during combat, attacks of opportunity, how cover works and stuff like that.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Don't be afraid to mess up a rule. As long as the ruling isn't going to kill a character it's better to make a decision on the fly and then look up the exact rule after the session than it is to stall everything for an hour as you look through three different sourcebooks.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Hmm wrote:

Pre-draw your maps.

If you don't have the flip maps that Fallen Fortress uses, or you draw as badly as I do, you may want to do what I do instead of drawing.

I extract the images using Nitro Reader, set them up in a program like Quark Xpress (expensive) or Scribus (free!) and use Staples engineering printing service to make maps using the blueprint machine... saves lots of time, and it's pretty cheap..


1 person marked this as a favorite.

- Be willing to improvise for the sake of keeping the game going.
- If a player is taking too long, give a suggestion on what he should do, or ask the other players to give advice.
- Low level adventures are good, because the PCs aren't stuck in a role yet. Even the wizard's basic Quarterstaff is still quite deadly at level 1.

You mentioned the PCs found a jewel and went back to town looking for the owner. I think you did the right thing and made up a new NPC to accept it. Now you have a hook for later adventures. Maybe the nobleman tells them about their next quest, or maybe he supplies them with the goods they need for their next quest.


Some things to avoid:

Try not to tell players what their characters do, think or say.
"There is a loud noise behind you. You turn around nervously and see..." is taking away the player's ability to control the things they should control. Something like "There is a loud noise behind you. Those of you who turn around see..." is better.

Avoid creating a powerful friendly NPC (or GMPC) who overshadows the party.

Sovereign Court

Matthew Downie wrote:
jj_maxx wrote:
Matthew Downie wrote:
Normally in that case, the PCs would leave the dungeon, find somewhere safe, and then rest until they get their spells back.
Thanks for this, that's a good idea.
It's good if, when the players leave a place and then come back, things have changed in their absence; the denizens have had time to prepare ambushes, or whatever. This discourages 'rest after every battle' syndrome.

Plus it should encourage your casters not to use all of their best spells every fight.

That's the disadvantage of low level wizard/sorcerers - they spend half their time using cantrips or being rather poor archers.


Thank you to everyone for the advice!

As for maps, I went super cheap. I went to wal-mart and bought a large piece of white poster-board for like $1 and drew 1" grid on it. I also bought a roll of clear cellophane wrapping paper for a few bucks and covered the grid with the cellophane. Now I can just draw my maps with dry-erase markers and make changes on the fly. We didn't have miniatures so I bought a bag of 100 assorted buttons and let my PC's pick one and I used small green buttons for lizards, black buttons for bats, etc... It worked well keeping track of movement.

In fact, the cellophane worked out so well I might draw the outlines of my maps for my main session on pieces of the cellophane in permanent marker, and then I can roll them up and put them over the grid when it's time. It might work.

And yes, I think I need to ramp up my collection of 'utility' entities. A good assortment of NPC's, CR-appropriate enemies and in-town and wilderness side-quests.

Also, a quick question about combat beginning. How do I start an encounter? As an example, if there is a room behind a closed door where two Troglodytes are posted guard, when and how would I start the fight? When they enter the room? What if the PC just opens the door? I assume the guards would notice the door opening. Would I just say, "There are two young troglodyte guards in this room and they notice you walking in, spears ready. Roll for initiative!"


my advice to any new DM:

-Don't get upset when only 10% of what you have ready for a session gets utilized.

-Don't get upset when something you spend all day on and plan to use for multiple sessions gets completely wiped out the first time it sees play.

-Getting the rules wrong and letting you players know later (in between sessions or at the beginning of the next) is better for your group than taking the time to look up the rules on the spot.

-Pay attention to what your players want. If a player is getting frustrated try to help them out. If a player enjoys one-shotting enemies, give them the opportunity.

-Try to pay attention to all players and characters. Give them their own time to shine.

Advice to the players:

-Let the DM know what you want to do, what you enjoy, and if you can why.

-Let the DM know what you didn't enjoy and if possible why.

-Share the spotlight with other players.

-Don't wait until your turn to start thinking about what you want to do...

Advice to the whole group:

-The DM's word is law. If you disagree with anything during a game, bring it up after or between sessions. If you spend more than two min arguing about something trivial the session is likely lost.


All good advice. One thing I'd add is, make notes about the pcs you make up. Now you have a Nobleman who has made contact with the pcs. What was his name? What was he like? You may not remember, but your pcs probably will and it's going to look bad if you accidentally call him by a different name or have him act in a different manner. Similarly the shopkeeper. Maybe you said he squints; well make a note because the pcs will be expecting him to squint every time.

Don't be afraid to change the Npcs: They have lives outside of the pcs world, and it comes to life if, after a few meetings the shopkeeper is suddenly replaced by a nervous young man. What happened to Surly Bill?, the pcs ask. His sister is Ill and he asked me to mind the store for a few days while he goes visit. Now he's more than a 2d character who's only there to buy and sell. Perhaps it will lead the adventure in a new direction if they think the young man is lying, perhaps not. Maybe he comes back after a few days with a new fresh scar. Was he really just visiting his sister, or is something more sinister going on? Maye he got into a fight with his brother-in-law, who he considers a good-for-nothing wastrel and was the reason he left to come to this town in the first place - or maybe he is secretly a thief who nearly got caught while attempting to steal the crown jewels. The more the pcs are interested in an NPC, the more of a life s/he needs to have; the more life they have, the more the pcs are interested in them.


Gavmania wrote:

All good advice. One thing I'd add is, make notes about the pcs you make up. Now you have a Nobleman who has made contact with the pcs. What was his name? What was he like? You may not remember, but your pcs probably will and it's going to look bad if you accidentally call him by a different name or have him act in a different manner. Similarly the shopkeeper. Maybe you said he squints; well make a note because the pcs will be expecting him to squint every time.

Don't be afraid to change the Npcs: They have lives outside of the pcs world, and it comes to life if, after a few meetings the shopkeeper is suddenly replaced by a nervous young man. What happened to Surly Bill?, the pcs ask. His sister is Ill and he asked me to mind the store for a few days while he goes visit. Now he's more than a 2d character who's only there to buy and sell. Perhaps it will lead the adventure in a new direction if they think the young man is lying, perhaps not. Maybe he comes back after a few days with a new fresh scar. Was he really just visiting his sister, or is something more sinister going on? Maye he got into a fight with his brother-in-law, who he considers a good-for-nothing wastrel and was the reason he left to come to this town in the first place - or maybe he is secretly a thief who nearly got caught while attempting to steal the crown jewels. The more the pcs are interested in an NPC, the more of a life s/he needs to have; the more life they have, the more the pcs are interested in them.

I love this. I love the fact that the game is so organic that even though I am running the game, I have no idea what's going to happen. When we ran our mini-session we wound up staying awake till 2:30am because we were having so much fun.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

+1 to the above, and in addition.....

If you can answer "yes" to the question "Is everyone having fun, myself included?" then you're doing it right, regardless of anything else.


jj_maxx wrote:
Well, the mini-session went great and I learned a lot that I had not thought about. (Like how much a room at my Inn costs.)

It's good to know how much stuff costs, but don't get too hung up on it. When the players have 50k each in their back pockets, they could probably buy the inn. The cost of 1 night is less relevant.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Welcome to the game!

You've already made a great start with premades and starting with Core rules.

The temptation to use expansions is always there. I strongly recommend that new material be introduced slowly after you and your players have a firm grounding in the fundamentals.

Making things up is par for the course.
Keep the story/game moving along.

For example don't quibble over the cost of a pint of ale, or spend all day shopping for arrows with the right color fletching...UNLESS that's the kind of game everyone wants.

Also players may do their utmost to go beyond the rules (harvesting organs was just a start) in the end do not let them go beyond the rules...no fancy maneuvers or ideas should grant a greater bonus that what is already specified in the rules. On the flipside don't let the rules dictate the entire scene if you find it doesn't fit or find it unfun or bad storytelling.

If you want a more free-form game where the players shape the scene and story, I strongly advise switching to a narrative driven roleplaying game such as Dungeonworld or FATE. Not a tactical miniatures combat simulator with roleplaying elements (Pathfinder.)

Most important of all...have fun!


jj_maxx wrote:
Also, a quick question about combat beginning. How do I start an encounter? As an example, if there is a room behind a closed door where two Troglodytes are posted guard, when and how would I start the fight? When they enter the room? What if the PC just opens the door? I assume the guards would notice the door opening. Would I just say, "There are two young troglodyte guards in this room and they notice you walking in, spears ready. Roll for initiative!"

This depends on how the PCs approach the door.

- If they just walk up to the door and open it, roll for initiative.
- If the rogue sneaks up to the door, roll an opposed stealth vs perception check. Let the PCs get a surprise round as the rogue throws open the door.
- Maybe the guards hear the party coming and they get to throw the door open and ambush the party.

Lots of ways you can do this, based on how exciting this encounter should be.

Liberty's Edge

Definitely work with your players not against them.

Your all going to be kinda fumbling through some rules and discovering some things that will help and hurt monsters in your game and style of play.

The point is to have fun and not really try to one up each other.


Rerednaw wrote:

Welcome to the game!

You've already made a great start with premades and starting with Core rules.

The temptation to use expansions is always there. I strongly recommend that new material be introduced slowly after you and your players have a firm grounding in the fundamentals.

Making things up is par for the course.
Keep the story/game moving along.

For example don't quibble over the cost of a pint of ale, or spend all day shopping for arrows with the right color fletching...UNLESS that's the kind of game everyone wants.

Also players may do their utmost to go beyond the rules (harvesting organs was just a start) in the end do not let them go beyond the rules...no fancy maneuvers or ideas should grant a greater bonus that what is already specified in the rules. On the flipside don't let the rules dictate the entire scene if you find it doesn't fit or find it unfun or bad storytelling.

If you want a more free-form game where the players shape the scene and story, I strongly advise switching to a narrative driven roleplaying game such as Dungeonworld or FATE. Not a tactical miniatures combat simulator with roleplaying elements (Pathfinder.)

Most important of all...have fun!

Thanks for the tips!

Well, I think PF is pretty flexible for both RP and Combat Simulator. I think you could go as extreme on either end.


J to the Max - greetings and salutations bro-dawg! Welcome to the world of PF and Tabletop RPGs! You're already well on the way - ready to improv with some proven skill already, versed in combat basics and learning right alongside your players.

One thing that jumped out at me in your OP was the comment about when your players run out of spells and such. There's a few ways to deal with diminishing resources:

1. Let the party rest: during rest the world around them should react to their presence. Monsters can re-supply and reinforce; animals sensing their presence get skittish and the wilderness gets that much darker; folks back in Falcon's Hollow (if they go all the way back there) show signs of getting sicker and more desperate.

2. Add in extra treasure: say they get jumped by a certain guy and his pet dragon in the woods; maybe modify the gear they have or drop a not-so-well-hidden cache in the bole of a nearby tree. Inside said treasure, give them the consumables they'll need; Alchemist's Flasks or Acid, scrolls with helpful Arcane or Divine spells on them, maybe even a wand that only has 3 or 4 charges of a decent 2nd level spell like Bull's Strength or False Life.

3. Improvise resources: remember that shocker lizard heart? Say the PCs are getting desperate; they've had 2 tough fights, expended lots of spells and they're miles from town. They stumble upon some way to use the heart. Maybe they meet some fey creature who smells the heart on them and is willing to trade a potion for it; maybe they find a tree recently struck by lightning and just then the heart begins to beat - it absorbs the residual energy in the tree and can now be used like a lightning-based splash weapon; maybe they just conveniently find a recipe that includes Shocker Lizard Heart and eating the dish imparts Resist Electricity 5 for 1 hour.

Some examples I've used for my own game have been:

- a font infused with Positive energy that delivers healing 1/day but the water has no effect if carried from the pool.

- spontaneous openings to a pocket dimension; inside the PCs are challenged to games of skill and chance by barbarians - each time they win they heal or regain some spell slots or something

- an outsider called a Lyrakian meets the party outside a dungeon. As written she has the power to remove the Fatigued condition. I empowered her so that she could provide 8 hours of rest in 1 hours time. She challenged the party to a storytelling contest that lasted 1 hour. During this time the PCs had the chance to out-orate the little fey-like outsider. If they were successful they would win a night's rest. Since my players at the time included a bard it was a lot of fun and inevitably he pulled out all the stops and beat her opposed skill check so that, after an hour of telling stories they got up refreshed and renewed with a night's healing and all their spells replenished.

I'm really impressed with J squared! You're learning and willing to learn. You're also not afraid to make stuff up for your players' benefit and the benefit of the shared game. That's huge dude. Keep that up and your players will be hoisting you over their heads for years to come!

Grand Lodge

The biggest thing to always remember is to have fun. As long as you are having fun and none of the players are dying or constantly using all their resources (spells, potion etc.) everything should be good.

The only thing I would caution is to let the players play their characters and make sure you build up to the next encounter/mission/quest. I have seen GMs force their players to make decisions or choose a side because that's what the GM wanted not what the players would have normally done.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Remember the GM's best friend: If the PCs get some kind of advantage, give them +2 to rolls, if they have a disadvantage, give them -2 to rolls.

And always let the PCs try new stuff. Don't say they can't do something, let them roll and see what happens.

And have fun! It's really fun playing with "newbies" because they often lack pre-conceived notions of what they can do, so they can do really funny and surprising things.


Mark Hoover wrote:

J to the Max - greetings and salutations bro-dawg! Welcome to the world of PF and Tabletop RPGs! You're already well on the way - ready to improv with some proven skill already, versed in combat basics and learning right alongside your players.

One thing that jumped out at me in your OP was the comment about when your players run out of spells and such. There's a few ways to deal with diminishing resources:

1. Let the party rest: during rest the world around them should react to their presence. Monsters can re-supply and reinforce; animals sensing their presence get skittish and the wilderness gets that much darker; folks back in Falcon's Hollow (if they go all the way back there) show signs of getting sicker and more desperate.

2. Add in extra treasure: say they get jumped by a certain guy and his pet dragon in the woods; maybe modify the gear they have or drop a not-so-well-hidden cache in the bole of a nearby tree. Inside said treasure, give them the consumables they'll need; Alchemist's Flasks or Acid, scrolls with helpful Arcane or Divine spells on them, maybe even a wand that only has 3 or 4 charges of a decent 2nd level spell like Bull's Strength or False Life.

3. Improvise resources: remember that shocker lizard heart? Say the PCs are getting desperate; they've had 2 tough fights, expended lots of spells and they're miles from town. They stumble upon some way to use the heart. Maybe they meet some fey creature who smells the heart on them and is willing to trade a potion for it; maybe they find a tree recently struck by lightning and just then the heart begins to beat - it absorbs the residual energy in the tree and can now be used like a lightning-based splash weapon; maybe they just conveniently find a recipe that includes Shocker Lizard Heart and eating the dish imparts Resist Electricity 5 for 1 hour.

Some examples I've used for my own game have been:

- a font infused with Positive energy that delivers healing 1/day but the water has no effect if carried from the pool.

-...

Thank you so much for this. It really made me feel excited and confident for my main session on Monday night. You are even familiar with my module I'm running! You have no idea how much your post encouraged me. Thanks.

I played a little more Master of the Fallen Fortress last night with my two-player group and it went well, except when combat gets complicated.

For example, whenever grapples, grabs, CMB's, etc... come into play. It really overwhelms me. In MotFF, there is a room with a Giant Frog. He uses his Tongue ability on the first person who enters the room. I didn't really understand it, then the Swallow Whole ability just compounded my confusion because it all needed to be rolled against and rolled for and I wound up just using the frogs melee attack as normal.

Combat maneuver's are really bogging me down right now.


Combat Maneuvers bog down everyone, but that's kind of the point. They are awesome if used right.

Most of them are designed to be big debuffs to whoever gets hit.

Trip: +4 to hit a prone target, -4 to attack from prone, free Attack of Opportunity when they stand up (some of the expanded rules can negate some or all of these penalties)

Bullrush: knockback. Very useful if you can get them back 5 ft, then 5ft step back so they can't full attack for multi-attack enemies.

Disarm: most enemies don't have the Improved Unarmed Strike feat, and rarely a backup weapon in their equipment, so now everytime they want to attack they take a free Attack of Opportunity.

Sunder: Very bad to use in most home games, since it destroys treasure, but good in PFS since you get the treasure on the sheet at the end either way.

Monster abilities are the same thing for the GM, a way to debuff or negate a PC for a short time. The way to get around being bogged down is to really read the combat section, and the monster abilities section of the bestiary. Luckily for you, it doesn't seem like you have any prior DnD editions cluttering up your memory of how the same named game terms worked differently back then.

Happy Gaming!


Grappling is always a pain, but it provides so much control. d20 pfsrd made a flowchart to help explain grappling. (It's a lot simple than old D&D, trust me.)

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/combat#TOC-Grapple

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Basically, roll CMB vs the target's CMD (instead of rolling Attack Rolls vs target's AC).

That's real basic, but check out the CRB Combat section for more details. CMs (Combat Maneuvers) make combat a lot more dynamic than just attacking AC and reducing hit points.


jj_maxx wrote:
Also, a quick question about combat beginning. How do I start an encounter? As an example, if there is a room behind a closed door where two Troglodytes are posted guard, when and how would I start the fight? When they enter the room? What if the PC just opens the door? I assume the guards would notice the door opening. Would I just say, "There are two young troglodyte guards in this room and they notice you walking in, spears ready. Roll for initiative!"

It's quite simple: Combat begins when one character decides to start fighting.

Using your example, you would be right if the reaction of the guards to a sudden intrusion would be to attack. OTOH, another perfectly valid reaction would be to point the spears at the PCs and demand they explain themselves, (does anyone know Draconic?). In the latter case, a fight only starts if the players want it to or they get the guards mad at them, (the language barrier strikes again!). N.B.: Things like racing to run out/block a door counts as a fight.

If the players want to try and bluff their way past guards: Let them, if you think an assault on an encampment is fun wait until things go wrong while they're trying to sneak a prisoner out in the middle of the night.

One thing that I find to be worth my time when prepping an adventure site is to quickly note what level of noise creatures can hear from nearby areas. I use the raw Perception bonus for those who aren't paying attention and a take-10 result for guards. For those who will actively react it can be good to make a note on your copy of the map so that you can quickly see that someone is going to investigate noise.


Tips for new GM's

I would like to add if there is a rule getting in the way of the story or game play feel free to remove it. Don't skirt around it and let your group know what and why. The rules are more suggestions than law.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Advice / First-Time GM with 5 First-Time Players, Advice? All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.