Has anyone been using options from Pathfinder Unchained? How has it been going?
So far I've seen the most out of the automatic bonus progression. Arcane casters have been suffering the most from it so enhancement bonuses for wands and staves have been around but not frequently.
The biggest obstacle for using skill differently has been finding a character sheet to support it. I've seen more background skill uses than consolidated skills but both have been well recieved.
Unchained Rogue, Unchained Monk and Fighters with free stamina pools have been almost mandatory for those classes although Unchained Monk still suffers from not being archetype compatible. No one seems to bother with stamina unless the fighter is involved making Fighters easily the most accurate class. It doesn't help that much unless used in conjuction with third party material.
I saw use of the alternate action economy early on but haven't seen it used lately. It seemed to work out well enough but people are wary of it.
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I think it's a fine book I wasted money on because my players have no interest in it at all.
Automatic Bonus Progression is a beautiful thing and should be the standard for all Pathfinder games forever. The Unchained Rogue is a tiny step in the right direction. Everything else is a waste of ink.
My group is already using the unchained classes for our current campaign, but when we start our next campaign we'll be using various rules from all over the book like esoteric components, combat stamina, removing alignment, dynamic item creation, background skills, automatic bonus progression, etc.
Character Sheets aren't really an issue with my group since we recently created our own 8 page character sheets.
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Automatic Bonus Progression is a beautiful thing and should be the standard for all Pathfinder games forever. The Unchained Rogue is a tiny step in the right direction. Everything else is a waste of ink.
Automatic Bonus Progression?
Has anyone been using options from Pathfinder Unchained? How has it been going?
I've tried the Unchained Rogue in PFs and I like most of the changes. I do not care for the way they added Skill Unlocks to the game as a Rogue-specific class feature (though other classes can use it via a feat).
I have not checked out a lot of the other parts of the book in any great detail yet.
My group is already using the unchained classes for our current campaign, but when we start our next campaign we'll be using various rules from all over the book like esoteric components, combat stamina, removing alignment, dynamic item creation, background skills, automatic bonus progression, etc.
Character Sheets aren't really an issue with my group since we recently created our own 8 page character sheets.
Mind sharing?
Automatic Bonus Progression?
Replaces the big six with automatic bonuses you gain as you level up.
Mind sharing?
I'll have to ask the creator's permission since it was made as part of his Course so I'm not 100% on whether or not we'd be allowed to put it on the internet. But if it's all fine then I'll put it on the boards.
I'm loving it...I even wrote a guide book for my player's to incorporate all the variant systems.
Check it out: http://www.fast-files.com/getfile.aspx?file=92730
Unsure how to format the link, but it can be copy pasted.
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I'm loving it...I even wrote a guide book for my player's to incorporate all the variant systems.
Check it out: http://www.fast-files.com/getfile.aspx?file=92730
Unsure how to format the link, but it can be copy pasted.
You can link it like this.
You can see my scripting if you hit the "reply" button for this post. The formatting instructions are also below the text box for new posts. Press the "show" button next the the text that says "How to format your text." The problem with posting the address directly is that the server usually adds spaces to prevent spam. So when people cut and paste the link into their browser it often won't work. Yours doesn't seem to have a problem, though.
I've used unchained action economy and variant multiclassing to death.
Unchained Rogue is there for anyone who wants it. Unchained Monk and Barbarian have been completely ignored.
Spell attack rolls and overclocking are there but I have't really done a lot with them.
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Thanks!I'm loving it...I even wrote a guide book for my player's to incorporate all the variant systems.
Check it out: http://www.fast-files.com/getfile.aspx?file=92730
Unsure how to format the link, but it can be copy pasted.You can link it like this.
You can see my scripting if you hit the "reply" button for this post. The formatting instructions are also below the text box for new posts. Press the "show" button next the the text that says "How to format your text." The problem with posting the address directly is that the server usually adds spaces to prevent spam. So when people cut and paste the link into their browser it often won't work. Yours doesn't seem to have a problem, though.
You are welcome. You might consider adding it to The Comprehensive Pathfinder Guides Guide. So far the only Unchained material seems to be an Unchained Summoner guide. Broken Zenith maintains the website. This thread is a good place to request that yours be added.
I'm playing an Unchained Rogue in WotRighteous, and having a great time with it.
We're just about to launch into a full optional rules campaign, with automatic bonus progression, background skills, unchained classes, limited magic, esoteric components, new poison and disease, as well as armour as DR, called shots and wounds/vigour. We'll see how all that goes.
I recommend lowering the threshold for debilitating damage if you want called shots to work well.
In our game it's damage greater than con score or more than half of current hp....whichever is higher.It's brutal....and helps the martial caster disparity...since martials can deliver killing blows and dismember squishy wizards etc...
Most of the systems are too unpolished. Combined iterative attacks is intriguing, but clunky. The monk is clunky, even though the rogue and barbarian are pretty cool. Variant multiclassing is trash (oh look, you can be WORSE at this ability than a first level character! all it cost you were half your feats!) though it introduced some intriguing concepts.
I've yet to use Unchained, but it has seemed a bit underwhelming.
I'd love to use just about anything in Unchained, but of my current gaming group only the GM even knows of it's existence, and he is vehemently opposed to the whole concept of the book (he is under the impression it's all power creep.)
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I gave VCM for free to fighters, give them some out of combat utility and a bit of flavour at the same time, with no risk of being overpowered.
I think the VMC is most disappointing after how awesome the monster class templates from the monster codex were.
I really like the alternate monks, rogues, poison, iterative attacks, and background skills. Aside from that we haven't changed much.
I'm still testing out some things. I really love the new poison/disease rules thus far. Makes them an actual threat now and for me it fits better with story elements such as nobility being assassinated by poison or epidemics breaking out.
Automatic progression is something I've wanted since starting Pathfinder. For the players it works well and boosts NPCs with class levels up a bit since I don't have to worry about loading them with lootable gear to make them a challenge to the players. Haven't experimented with how it will affect creatures with class levels though.
Background skills (and the two new skills) are interesting but haven't had many of them come up in play yet.
Monk is a step in the right direction, but since it invalidates all the archetypes it's kind of a mixed back. The rogue with skill unlocks has been great though.
I'm still heavily underwhelmed by the stamina pool. Thus far the abilities just feel a bit lackluster, adding numbers instead of interesting new options (like some of the skill unlocks).
I personally love the new action economy model. Opens up a lot more options in my opinion (even if it is highly dependent on the GM for particulars).
Some of the VMCs are pure gold... Barbarian is all goodness...especially for fighter/ranger. Sorceror was mentioned and i agree it's good.
Magus opens up spellcombat and seems to allow extra arcana(?).
VMC rogue is great for trap heavy games where no one wants to be a rogue outright.
Some suck though..Wiz and cleric give some good things but the feat for orison/cantrip is a real crotch punt.As is the armor thing for monk VMC.
The things I don't like in the book I can count on my hands. I think it's a pretty groovy book. I just haven't had a chance to use it.
Unchained is my new favorite book.
Sure, it feels almost unfinished or a bit rough in places.
But I love how it gives me a starting point for some great ideas
I've yet to use any of it (no, wait : we're going to start using the poison rules) - mainly because the party is 11th lvl, we've been playing for 1&1/2 yrs, several characters have retrained their class once or twice, and the less rules savy members have just now gotten the hang of the rules (don't ask: "I dodge-powerstrike-5ftstep-fullroundcharge- what do I roll again?") & rewriting half the rules now would be cruel I think ...
But next campaign. .. will be quit different :)
I love the new posion and disease mechanics. It really makes you feel poisoned / diseased, instead of a slight minor inconvenience for some stats. +100 fluff points
Automatic bonus progression is our new standart. Cuts down on the christmas tree syndrom, just to be adequate. Makes choosing new magic items more interesting, as the most important bases are already covered and you dont have to ponder over "cool and great fluff vs. boring but practical" when NOT investing in the Big Six.
These I have used:
Background skills. Really nice, I dont think ill be going back to normal any time, ever.
New rouge, Monk and Barbarian all replace the old when I DM, but players can choose to use the old ones if they prefer. I have had no reason not to like them and any archetype incompatabilities are houseruled.
I dont care for the summoner. It IS more balanced, but it takes away so many evolution points that it breaks the class a bit.
Already been using fractional bonuses and "innate item bonuses" for a while, allways worked good and still do. Characters should'nt have to pick between "+1 to my saves, or this cool magic cloak that actually does stuff? Hmmm."
The expanded list of skill uses in the background skills has a lot of stuff ive thought about or had to make up DC's for up fo on the spot.
Skill unlocks and Stamina is really just something for players to pick for themselves. None have yet but I think its a cool system
Variant multiclassing feels a little like creep for me, I allow it because it is thematic.
Dynamic magic item creation is cool, my group is halfway through a crafting quest to make a dragonbane sword and they have no idea im using these rules, its cool stuff I tell you.
I have trouble with the new poison rules because there are no rules for how much to cost poisons or give them CR. They stand out as a rules system that Idd like to but cant use.
The monster creation stuff is moot for seasoned GM's because it doesnt actually make monster creation easier, it just speeds up the math, However, the abilities listed in the Monster options list are cool and ive stolen lots of stuff from it for my regular critters.
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I dont like automatic bonus progression. For characters that actually use every bonus its ok, but it kicks characters who dont aim for every bonus in the shin.
Thematically or not, if you play a character who only wants to improve their armor, or weapon. Or if you just want certain wondrous items, the system gives you lots of useless stuff and then takes away your gold.
Great, my full caster is now holding a glorious stick +1, oh and his plaided shirt is also +1 now, yay. Great, my "katana fanatic" character has 50% less gold to spend on the only item he wants to spend gold on. I know Gm's who like the system and if they use it I´ll endure but I'll make sure to play something that can make use all the bonuses, a subsystem is never good if it causes players to change their character choices for the sake of not getting gimped.
There's a handful of rules that we'll be using and never looking back on what came before it.
-Unchained Classes (If the player so chooses, anyway. Chained/Unchained are still stand-alone classes at our table)
-Skill Unlocks
-Combat Stamina
-Action Economy
-Poison/Diseases
-Dynamic Item Creation (Perks, Quirks, and Flaws are just so nifty!)
-Scaling Magic Items
So far? No regrets whatsoever.
Automatic Bonus Progression is a beautiful thing and should be the standard for all Pathfinder games forever. The Unchained Rogue is a tiny step in the right direction.Everything else is a waste of ink.
And now I don't think any sane person could disagree. :P
Personally, I fail to name what I don't reference:
Unchained Monk/Rogue I use (with some minor work to keep archetypes available). Primarily: anywhere an ability upgraded, treat as previously. Since unchained mostly tacked in new abilities.
Variant multiclassing is in, with normal multi-classing.
Variant multiclassing feels a little like creep for me, I allow it because it is thematic.
Aside it makes some prestige classes enter smoother (a lot smoother I found). I found no issue. And that's not exactly an issue.
Stamina is in - all full BAB classes (and Rogue) get the feat automatically. Fighters I am toying (when someone finally plays one) with a boost to the system at certain levels. Not sure what. Extra stamina and ability to apply multiple feat effects?
The revised action economy is in. Seen TWF builds shoot up. My players using THF builds have yet to think the sky has fallen in. Casters make more tactical decisions, so zero complaints to that.
Scaling items will appear at least once a game, so far. May just be an excitement rush that one. But the framework being there has allowed me to cajole a player or two that don't write backstories otherwise - so that I can give them a story-driving reward later.
Weighing up wounds, and disease/poison. They look good but I don't know how hard they'll swing things. Will probably roll in more things over time like above posters though.
To be honest, at this point I think I can thoroughly say: I have tried not playing "Pathfinder". It's turned out amazingly. :)
Variant multiclassing feels a little like creep for me, I allow it because it is thematic.
I'd disagree, since nearly all of the VMC are too weak to be worth taking over the feats.
Automatic Bonus Progression is a beautiful thing and should be the standard for all Pathfinder games forever.
Really? I thought the way weapons and armor were handled was a complete mess and the system really seems to have a skewed idea of when PCs should be getting certain types of gear. Really +3 armor/weapon (minus weapon/armor properties) at level 14? It's a good idea, but seems horribly flawed in practice.
I like the Innate Item Bonuses system more, but I'm super iffy about the price increase table. Currently I'm planning on trying it out except without essentially doubling the cost of all wearable items, as the system suggests.
What's this about poison/disease changes though? I never saw that from Unchained, but it could be interesting. For a new game I'm running I houseruled poisons to be more effective, so I'm wondering if I went about the same way of doing so. I was thinking that initial poison saves would only negate initial effects, and from there all saves against poison would be for half.
I picked up quite a bit of stuff from Unchained and a few DMs I've played with have liked it quite a bit.
Variant Multiclassing is actually something I've got a lot of mileage from already. A straight wizard with VMC Rogue has proven to make a very easy entry into Arcane Trickster, for example, as well as a Cavalier VMC Bard making an easy Battle Herald. A cleric of fire VMCing into wizard for the Evocation (Admixture) school for the school powers, familiar, and True Name for an HD 18 outsider!
As for the classes, I no longer feel terrible when somebody asks to play a rogue and I try and divert them to something like a vivisectionist or an urban ranger, as the Unchained Rogue is a substantial (if still . . . lackluster) improvement. I straight prefer the new Summoner, as I had and several other local DMs had already house-ruled that you choose an Outsider to mimic as part of the class, and the theme seems a lot more coherent.
The monk and barbarian . . . have really come down to personal preference.
I've gotten no mileage out of the alternate magic, action economy, or sliding scale alignments. I did quickly just pick up the idea of removing alignment from the game, but that was hardly a whole new Unchained idea.
Scaling items seems like a very good idea. I support it. However, I don't think sticking to the Paizo math on it is a great idea, and if it's an item purchased by the PC during down-time as is sort of expected in a metropolis setting, I find it easier to use the original enhancement items.
What's this about poison/disease changes though? I never saw that from Unchained, but it could be interesting. For a new game I'm running I houseruled poisons to be more effective, so I'm wondering if I went about the same way of doing so. I was thinking that initial poison saves would only negate initial effects, and from there all saves against poison would be for half.Diseases and Poisons Optional Rules.
Edit: Since Unchained isn't up on the PRD yet, I find this useful.
Thanks a lot for sharing that! I guess I just overlooked it because it wasn't linked on the subsystem page on d20pfsrd, but the new rules for poison and diseases look awesome. Definitely ditching my quick fix for that.
Some stuff is great, some stuff is terrifying, some stuff could use a little more tuning.
So far we've been using:
- Unchained classes.
- Fractional Base Bonuses.
- Background Skills.
- Skill Unlocks.
- Variant Multiclassing.
- Stamina and Combat Tricks.
- Wound Thresholds.
- Diseases and Poisons.
- Wild Magic.
- Automatic Bonus Progression.
I like the idea behind fractional base bonuses, but some people in my group seem to have a really hard time grasping the math. Possibly more hassle than it's worth?
Background skills are awesome, I love them forever and they're never going away.
Skill Unlocks are... All right. I wish the progression had been more aggressive.
Stamina, Combat Tricks and VMC hasn't been used yet, so no comment there.
Wound Thresholds are interesting, but I find that the penalties are a bit of a hassle to keep track of in parties where the HP can quickly fluctuate and they're sufficiently minor that they become more or less irrelevant as you level up.
Diseases and Poisons are the stuff of GM dreams and PC nightmares. They're absolutely bloody terrifying - potions of delay poison went from being a luxury to something that's valued along the lines of the ubiquitous CLW wand for my party. Prrrrobably exasperated by the fact that we're playing an AP that happens to be loaded for bear with a specific magical curse/disease...
Wild Magic is... Odd. We've only had it come into play a few times and it's always interesting to see what turns up. I like that it makes magic more unpredictable.
I was over the moon when I first read Automatic Bonus Progression. After having had it in play for 9 levels I still really like it, but I think it has a wonky progression. For example all wizards have to shell out for a +1 weapon, and all fighters prioritize a +2 mental bonus over a +2 physical bonus. It could have benefited from offering multiple progression paths tailored to the class type you play.
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I'll be using the following from Unchained:
Automatic Bonus Progression (Set at character level +2 for PCs; NPCs use it as is unless it is a Boss).
Consolidated Skill Groups (to totally remove ranks from play).
Staggered Level Progression (going to be using slow advancement so I figured this would take the sting out of it for my players as they're used to medium progression).
Wound Thresholds (mainly because I like the idea that the more damage one takes should have an effect on character performance).
Skill Unlocks (but only for the rogue, who are also the only ones that can use the Signature Skill feat).
Unchained Classes (barbarian is optional, the others are mandatory).
Almost went with Stamina, but given what I am using, I don't want to confuse them even further by throwing too much at my players. One of my players is really resistant to change.
Another DM is using alternate action economy. It's okay but I won't be using for my game. He's also using the allegiance for alignment option. I never had a problem with alignment, so I'm avoiding it as well.
Dynamic magic item creation is cool, my group is halfway through a crafting quest to make a dragonbane sword and they have no idea im using these rules, its cool stuff I tell you.
This is awesome.
I may not be a GM, but looking at the book, I'll tell you what I loved and what I...liked, but thought needs a bit of improvement.
I really love the new rules for Disease & Poisons-by allowing a disease/poison to slowly eat away a PC, it'll make them think, "Crap, I gotta fix this ASAP!" instead of "Oh, I'll just wait until we're done killing goblins before I heal"-i.e. it really brings in a legitimate sense of urgency (like how it used to be in Pokemon when one was Poisoned & you didn't have any healing items).
The monster creation rules...I tried it a couple of times, but really got lost at a few points. I don't know if this is meant for seasoned GM's or new GM's, but I think the problem was just me getting lost, and not the rules themselves.
The unchained classes...I have no idea what to think of them, since I haven't played them yet. I see here that the unchained barbarian is okay, although when asking for advice for a titan mauler PC, one person said that he preferred the original over the unchained. So maybe its from person to person on whether they're good or bad, but I gotta try them before I say anything else about them.
The two new skills-Artistry and Lore-are decent skills that, while serving no purpose for actual gameplay (like how Acrobatics, Perception and Stealth can), are, IMO, perfect skills for fleshing out your PC's personalities and interests. I prefer Artistry over Lore (since Lore is just a super specific Knowledge skill, and Artistry can be perfect for giving an artistic PC a chance to show their stuff!)
Other than those, I can't really say what I liked and didn't like.