Often times surprising an enemy is a bad thing because you only have a standard or move action instead of a full action.
For example when you wait outside a door, ready to ambush the enemy. Sure, you could walk in and hope to go first. But if you roll low you're in trouble. Better to forgoe the surprise round and walk in when you can attack, too.
But how do you do it? If you do nothing at all in the surprise round, why are the enemies not surprised anymore? How do they know you're there?
If some enemies go before you, what can they do? Do they know combat has begun?
You can still charge, shoot them, toss a tanglefoot bag.
If you want to do nothing but alert the enemies that they are now in combat, you can try shouting "Prepare to die, evildoers!"
Cast a buff, draw a weapon, ready an attack, flaunt not being flat footed, partial charge, throw a weapon, "Prepare to die, evildoers!" demoralize them.
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Often times surprising an enemy is a bad thing because you only have a standard or move action instead of a full action.
Any time this statement is true, your GM probably screwed up the start of combat.
For example when you wait outside a door, ready to ambush the enemy. Sure, you could walk in and hope to go first. But if you roll low you're in trouble. Better to forgoe the surprise round and walk in when you can attack, too.
No.
If you're outside the door, you know the enemy is inside but the enemy doesn't know you're there, then combat hasn't started. You could have 10 rounds, or a 100 rounds, to drink potions, cast buffs, draw weapons, take a nap, whatever you want.
At some point you decide to kick in the door and attack. Kicking in the door is not combat.
AFTER the door flies open, the GM says "OK, we're in combat now, everyone roll initiative - but first, you get a surprise round because they didn't expect you to kick in the door."
Now you get a FREE action to do something before they even technically get to roll initiative. It's a BONUS action. On the house.
But how do you do it?
Do what?
If you do nothing at all in the surprise round, why are the enemies not surprised anymore? How do they know you're there?
You mean, after you kick the door open and surprise them, and then the GM says "You get a surprise round" to which you reply "I do nothing"?
Why would you do nothing? It's your free bonus surprise round, do something man!
Regardless of whether you do anything or not, the enemy is no longer surprised because, well, their door flew open and slammed into the wall, they all looked up in surprise, their eyes wide with shock - one of them even screamed like a child.
But a few seconds later, the initial surprise wears off and they mobilize for action (round 1 of regular initiative). Now, maybe you attacked one, maybe that one is even dead. Good for you. Or maybe you stood there and did nothing (I'm still not sure why you would do that). Either way, they're not surprised anymore.
How do they know you're there? They're looking at you, that's how.
If some enemies go before you, what can they do? Do they know combat has begun?
They cannot go before you in the surprise round because they're surprised. If they were not surprised (maybe they heard you outside and therefore were aware of you which by RAW means there is no surprise round) then you're the only one going in the surprised round so you are definitely first.
If it's the surprise ROUND, then combat has begun. Your enemies are surprised, and cannot act in the surprise round, they're even flat-footed, but they definitely are aware that combat has begun.
What you don't necessarily want to do is use your surprise round action to move up next to the burly bad guy knowing you rolled low on initiative. You could have very well just moved yourself into a full attack on the enemy's higher initiative score. Just be wise with your limited surprise round action and enjoy being more prepared for the encounter than the enemy.
I've never experienced getting the drop on someone to be a bad thing, if only for the prep time it allows. Good luck!
The situation we had recently:
The party was sneaking up on some old dwarven keep now populated by trolls. We reached the entrance which lacked a door and through the crenel we could see (and in my case smell) that enemies were inside. We listened and heard two trolls arguing.
Now, standing beside the open entrance we could not charge in (no straight line) and we did not want to buff because we reckoned they could hear the casting. So what we did was just declare that we wait/delay until the surprise round is over. At that time the barbarian engaged and the others either followed or used the arrow slits to cast spells at the trolls.
Other example:
The party scouts sneak up to some enemy camp and want to snipe at them. But sniping costs a standard action to shoot + a move action to re-stealth. Now what do you do with your surprise round and how do you explain that the surprise round is now over without combat having started? How would you handle the sniping without the sniper automatically being spotted because he can't re-stealth?
Third example:
Someone starts combat by summoning a monster. As it is a 1 round spell he can't do it during the surprise round but if he does it with still spell how would the enemy notice until the monster appears and attacks?
Example one: could have tossed an alchemists fire in. Have some spells cast on the trolls...
Or cast one buff.
You'd have had the same outcome but the trolls had been at a slightly worse start.
Example three: As long as no one is actively engaging in combat, combat doesn't start. If you cast with still spell, and the other side doesn't hear your casting (Perception check DC10 + distance), you aren't in combat, no Initiative is rolled, no Surprise round started.
Also: your opponents are flat-footed as long as they haven't acted. In the Surprise round anyway, and in the first round of combat if your Ini is higher than theirs.
Distracted trolls... Doorless doorway... no LOS... Surprise round.
This might have been a case for using the surprise round to Delay until the top of round 1, which seems to be what you did.
Other options:
1. Sneak away, a couple hundred feet to be sure, then cast your buff spells. Ready grenades. Sneak back.
2. Set a trap in the doorway then lure the trolls out to you - where you ambush them with readied attacks. Don't even need to start combat until the trap is ready.
3. Use the Stealth rules - your stealthiest guy makes a Stealth check, then moves into the room and back out in a single move action, seeing the lay of the land - he doesn't break stealth if he ends his turn with Cover or Concealment, and being outside the doorway behind the wall is Total Cover, so he never breaks Stealth. Combat still has not started. Now you have a better idea of what is there, where it is, and what you can do.
Surprise Round Sniping
This is definitely a case where the rules fail you. Just decline the surprise round by using it to Delay until the top of round 1 and then Snipe to your heart's content.
Surprise Round Summoning
You probably meant Silent Spell.
If you can cast quietly enough that the enemy fails their Perception checks, the surprise round begins when the monster appears, not before. You are summoning it out of combat. But if they make their Perception checks, then they hear you and the your Summoning action is now your surprise round. You CAN begin a full-round spell in the surprise round, so you will use a Standard action during your surprise round to start summoning it and a Standard action during Round 1 to finish summoning it.
Thanks for the input.
1. Sneaking away would have been dangerous because there was a manned guard tower overlooking the approach but not the spaces directly in front of the door.
2. We wanted to take them out as quick as possible before they could call in reinforcements. We have to deal with a fortress "full of" trolls, after all.
Yes, I meant silent spell. I never used them so I sometimes confuse still for the silent one. More so as still means quiet in my native tongue.
It's a rule that benefits casters, for the most part. Standard action-can cast spell.
Martials should just refocus, or move into full attack position if they already have initiative.
I've often marveled at how clumsy surprise rounds tend to be.
We often just ignore them.
Something weird like this came up last night. Two ratfolk PCs with very high Stealth cut a slit in the back of an enemy's tent, snuck in while he was sleeping, and decided to coup de grace him with their saps to knock him out. It struck me that CdG is a full round action though, so some confusion ensued.
In the end they decided to just use standard actions to sneak attack him in the surprise round. They also won initiative, and the enemy was KO'd before he ever got a turn. I guess maybe they could have just refocused to win initiative in the next round though then they would have given up the chance to get two actions each before the enemy got one.
@Devilkiller, they could take the standard action to start a full round action which they could have completed on their next turn.
Of course, with a sleeping enemy it's not even a surprise round since the enemy isn't awake. It's not even combat yet. You just walk up to the enemy and perform the coup-de-grace.
Sometimes, strict adherence to rules just leads to weird things happening that you should otherwise be able to do.
Martials should just refocus
I guess maybe they could have just refocused to win initiative in the next round
What the heck game are you guys playing, anyway?
"Refocus"? That's not a Pathfinder rule...
;)
@Devilkiller, they could take the standard action to start a full round action which they could have completed on their next turn.
That works for most things, but I don't think would work with a coup de grace, since CDG depends on a helpless victim. I would imagine the beginning of the CDG in the surprise round would wake him up, making him ineligible to be CDG'd with the first part of the first full round.
I *think* the proper thing would be to delay until the top of the first full round. In practice, a lot of DMs don't call for initiative until after the surprise round, but RAW rolling for init comes first, so delaying until just before your enemy should be legal, even without the "refocus" holdover from 3e.
Both of these feel kind of game-ish because it exposes the artificial divisions of rounds. Why do 3+3 seconds of cutting someone's throat do less damage than 6 seconds of cutting someone's throat? How do I know when the bad guy is going to stop being flat footed and act? Because rules, that's why.
Fwiw, when I run a game I houserule that sleeping people delay until they wake up. I think it's stupid that you can miss your turn entirely because you got a higher initiative.
Why would the beginning of a CDG wake him up? He hasn't taken any damage. Imagine that your target is sleeping in bed. You sneak up to him, and do not alert him. You take your knife and try to find the best spot you can to stab him and kill him. Your target sleeps face down, neck exposed. You decided to cut right through his C3 & C4 vertebrae, wanting to server his spinal cord. You line up the blade.
And as your next standard action you plunge it through his neck.
Now, before you're second standard action he gets another chance to perceive you. Albeit with a +10 to the DC for perception (so your stealth check +10). So he might wake up and notice you, and thus no longer be helpless. But anyone decently competent in stealth is probably going to beat your sleeping perception check, unless you really focus on having a high perception.
Example three: Summon before you kick the door in, or find a more useful spell. Unless you're a Diviner or the Cleric/Arcainst equivalent and you get ambushed, this really shouldn't happen. Lead with Cloudkill, Grease, Web, something like that. If you are, for whatever reason, really keen to summon in the surprise round then this is a problem... but that's a feature of summon spells, not a bug, and you're a caster (probably a full caster). You can find a valuable standard action to take somewhere in the rest of your spells.
I liked your first two examples, but this third one seems to forget that you CAN begin a full-round spell in the surprise round, so you will use a Standard action during your surprise round to start summoning it and a Standard action during Round 1 to finish summoning it.
Risky, but some casters in some situations may prefer that option to being told they have to find a different standard action to use.
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You can't finish a full-round action and cast a spell on the same round as both require standard actions.
However, if you can start a 1 round casting in the surprise round (which I don't believe the 'start full round action' rule allows) then your summons will act when you complete the spell, but not until their initiative, which would be after yours.