Replacing Know. Arcana in a setting with no magic


Homebrew and House Rules


In my homebrew setting, magic and divine classes do not exist in favor of psionics. Since Knowledge arcana would be useless in this setting I was considering replacing it with Knowledge science, since this setting has sci-fi elements (and takes place on a post-apocalyptic Earth).

But I'm at a bit of a conundrum here. How exactly would you differentiate engineering and a science skill? What do you think both could reasonably cover?

I'm thinking that the science skill would cover stuff like astronomy, biology, chemistry, that sort of thing. It would also be used to identify technological items instead of engineering.


alchemy == chemistry
nature == biology
planes == astronomy
engineering == engineering (actually you can subdivide this nearly infinitely)
etc.


What Trekkie90909 said makes sense. I'll add some things from Mutants and Masterminds here:

Computers (Int): You are trained in the operation of computers or creating software.

:
Check: Most normal computer operations-using software, getting your e-mail-don't require a Computers check and can be done untrained. However, searching an unfamiliar network for a particular file, writing programs, altering existing programs to perform differently, and breaking computer security all require skill checks (and training).

Find File: The DC and time required to locate a particular file on an unfamiliar computer system are determined by the size of the site. Finding public information on the Internet does not fall under this category: this only pertains to finding files on unfamiliar computer systems.

Size or Site: DC: Time
Personal Computer: 10: 1 round
Small office network: 15: 2 rounds
Large office network: 20: 1 minute
Massive network: 25: 10 minutes

Defeat Computer Security: The DC is determined by the quality of the security installed to defend the system. If the check by 5 or more, the system immediately alerts its administrator that there has been an unauthorized entry. An alerted administrator may attempt to identify you or cut off access to the system.
Sometimes, you have to defeat security at more than one stage of the operation. If you beat the DC by 10 or more when attempting to defeat computer security, you automatically succeed at all subsequent security checks at that site until the end of your session.

Level of Security: DC
Minimum: 20
Average: 25
Exceptional: 35
Maximum: 40

Defend Security: If you are the system administrator for a site (which may be as simple as being the owner of a personal computer), you can defend it against intruders. If the site alerts you to an intruder, you can attempt to cut off the intruder’s access or even identify the intruder.
To cut off access, make an opposed Computers check against the intruder. If the check succeeds, the intruder’s session is ended. The intruder might be able to defeat your security and access your site again, but has to start over again. Attempting to cut off access takes a full round.
One surefire way to prevent further access is to simply shut the site down. With a single computer, that’s no big deal, but on a large site with many computers (or computers controlling functions that can’t be interrupted) it may be time-consuming or even impossible to do so.
To identify the intruder, make an opposed Computers check. If the check succeeds, you learn the site from which the intruder is operating (if it’s a single computer, you learn the name of the computer’s owner). Identifying the intruder requires 1 minute and is a separate check from cutting off access. This check can only be made if the intruder is accessing your site for the entire length of the check—if the intruder’s session ends before you make the Computers check, your attempt fails.

Degrade Programming: You can destroy or alter programs on a computer to make it harder or impossible to use. Crashing a computer simply shuts it down. Its user can restart it without a skill check (however, restarting takes at least 1 minute). Destroying programming makes the computer unusable until the programming is repaired. Damaging programming imposes a -4 penalty on all checks made with the computer (sometimes this is preferable to destroying the programming, since the user might not know anything is wrong and won’t simply decide to use a different computer).
You can damage the programming of multiple computers at a single site, doing so adds +2 to the DC for each additional computer.

Scope of Alteration: DC: Time
Crash computer: 10: 1 minute
Destroy programming: 15: 10 minutes
Damage programming: 20: 10 minutes

Fixing damaged programming requires an hour and a Computers check against a DC equal to the DC for damaging it +5. Destroyed programming must be reinstalled.

Write Program: You can create a program to help with a specific task. Doing so grants a +2 bonus to the task. A specific task, in this case, is one type of operation with one target. The DC to write a program is 20; the time required is one hour.

Operate Remote Device: Many devices are computer-operated. If you have access to the computer controlling them, you can shut them off or change their operating parameters. The DC depends on the nature of the operation. If you fail the check by 5 or more, the system alerts its administrator there has been an unauthorized use of the equipment. An alerted administrator may attempt to identify you or cut off your access to the system.

Type of Operation: DC: Time
Shut down passive remote (including cameras and door locks): 20: 1 round per remote
Shut down active remote (including motion detectors and alarms): 25: 1 round per remote
Reset parameters: 30: 1 minute per remote
Change passcodes: 25: 1 minute
Hide evidence of alteration: +10: 1 minute
Minimum security: -5: -
Exceptional security: +10: -
Maximum security: +15: -

Action: Computers requires at least a full-round action. The GM may determine some tasks require several rounds, a few minutes, or longer, as described above.

Special: You can take 10 when using the Computers skill. You can take 20 in some cases, but not those involving a penalty for failure. (You cannot take 20 to defeat computer security or defend security, for example.)

You might want to alter the Computers skill depending on how common they are.

Disable Device - uses Intelligence instead of Dexterity in M&M

Heal is called Medicine

Like in Pathfinder, each of the Knowledge areas is treated as a different skill. Unlike in Pathfinder they are listed under the skill heading rather than separately. You could probably use any of them instead of or in addition to the Pathfinder Knowledge skills.
Knowledge (Int)

:

Arcane Lore: The occult, magic, astrology, numerology, the supernatural, and similar topics. [magic may not exist, but people might still have beliefs in the supernatural]

Art: Fine arts and graphic arts, including art history and artistic techniques. Antiques, modern art, photography, and performance art forms such as music and dance, among others.

Behavioral sciences: Psychology, sociology, and criminology

Business: Business procedures, investment strategies, and corporate structures. Bureaucratic procedures and how to navigate them.

Civics: Law, legislation, litigation, and legal rights and obligations. Political and governmental institutions and processes.

Current Events: Recent happenings in the news, sports, politics, entertainment, and foreign affairs.

Earth Sciences: Geology, geography, oceanography, and paleontology.

History: Events, personalities, and cultures of the past. Archeology and antiques.

Life Sciences: Biology, botany, genetics, medicine, and forensics.

Physical Sciences: Astronomy, chemistry, mathematics, physics, and engineering.

Popular Culture: Popular music and personalities, genre films and books, urban legends, comic books, science fiction, gaming, and trivia.

Streetwise: Street and urban culture, local underworld personalities and events.

Tactics: Techniques and strategies for disposing and maneuvering forces in combat.

Technology: Current developments in cutting-edge devices, as well as the background necessary to identify various technological devices.

Theology and Philosophy: Liberal arts, ethics, philosophical concepts, and the study of religious faith, practice, and experience.

Pilot (Dex): For any vehicle that travels through air or space.

:
Check: Routine tasks, such as ordinary movement, don’t require a skill check. Make checks only when piloting in a dramatic situation (being chased or attacked, for example, or trying to reach a destination in time). While piloting, you can attempt simple maneuvers and stunts.
Maneuver : DC
Easy (low speed turns): 5
Average (sudden reverse, dodging obstacles): 10
Difficult (tight turns): 15
Challenging (loop, barrel roll): 20
Formidable (high-speed maneuvers, dodging obstacles): 25

Try Again: Most Pilot checks have consequences for failure that make trying again impossible.
Action: A Piolet check is a move action.
Special: At the Gamemaster’s option, Pilot may be further broken down into more detailed categories requiring specialization, such as airplanes, jet-planes, helicopters, starfighters, space transport, or space cruisers.
You could always have separate skills for land and sea vehicles.

Psicraft (Int): As spellcraft but with psionic powers and items. You could include a variant of Use Magic Device here to allow someone to try and use a psionic device.

I'm not sure if you'll want to keep he Fly skill or not. If your psionic characters can fly using their powers you should probably keep it.

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16

Knowledge (occult). In a world where magic doesn't exist, there still would be people researching the supernatural.

The psionics rules by Dreamscarred Press has new skills.


Back to the original questions Know: Science is far too broad unless you really want to condense the knowledges list.

Really something along Cyrad's suggestion makes more sense although I'd do

Religion == Occult (Assuming religion/occult practices need a knowledge in a world without divine magic)

and

Arcana == psionics/menta/mental

And for Indagare's suggestion I'd just rename disable device Hacking.


Neongelion wrote:

In my homebrew setting, magic and divine classes do not exist in favor of psionics. Since Knowledge arcana would be useless in this setting I was considering replacing it with Knowledge science, since this setting has sci-fi elements (and takes place on a post-apocalyptic Earth).

But I'm at a bit of a conundrum here. How exactly would you differentiate engineering and a science skill? What do you think both could reasonably cover?

I'm thinking that the science skill would cover stuff like astronomy, biology, chemistry, that sort of thing. It would also be used to identify technological items instead of engineering.

Keep in mind Geography is used for astronomy, nature for weather and seasons, dungeoneering covers geology (no really, look at the rules), heal is obviously medical info, and engineering covers a lot of physics stuff. Honestly, I don't think knowledge arcana needs replacement at all. Keeping science down to 5 skills and fudging what belongs where would be easier on your player's skill points.


Knowledge Psionics? That way if you're using monstrous creatures as opponents you can slide them from Arcane to Psionics.

Use Psionic Device if such things exist in your world.

The M&M/D20 Modern & Future skill lists might work well for your setting.


If you have psionics, a replacement with Knowledge (Psionics) seems easiest...


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Knowledge: Occult, maybe? If it's still spell related...


The Golux wrote:
If you have psionics, a replacement with Knowledge (Psionics) seems easiest...

second this idea, what i would do anyway.

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

I would use "Arcane Lore" or "Occult" for knowledge of psionics as well as New Age sort of mysticism, etc. and, borrowing from d20 Modern, Knowledge (earth and life sciences) for geology and biology and biochemistry; Knowledge (physical sciences) for structural engineering, physics, and chemistry; and Knowledge (technology) for the theoretical aspects of mechanical and electronic engineering and awareness and understanding of what technology exists and what it is capable of.

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