New Classes as Genre Expansions?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion


The idea of new classes existing to expand not only a general or mechanical niche, but a *genre* niche is an I've explored some, and wondered if anyone else had as well. That is, if we look around us to film and literature, "alternate" forms of fantasy have been on the rise for some time. It seems logical that Pathfinder would expand our alternate fantasy options as well.

What is meant by "alternate fantasy"? Alternate fantasy is the use of traditional fantasy elements such as elves or trolls, and adding a twist. For example, urban fantasy takes classic, fantasy characters and rethemes them in the modern era. Steampunk, an older form of alternate fantasy, or even Dieselpunk, present additional, fun settings for our classic fantasy genre. Elves in stovepipe hats, for example.

These genres are established enough now that it's also possible to retrograde them...for example, shifting steampunk fantasy concepts and ideas into a more classical knights and castles environment is easy to do and may not seem as strange as it once was. With a little alteration it's possible to take that elf with the stovetop hat, add artifice-themed trains, and toss in a few more fantasy swords and armor. Alternately, take the "feel" of urban fantasy where things are more hidden and gritty--and apply it to settings with castles and knights. In the end, you still gain the feel of Mr. Stovetop, but in a more traditional-compatible setting.

Or, your DM just runs Steampunk outright.

In the end, it seems as though many new classes in PF are crafted to diversify its genre options beyond the traditional West or East fantasy additions we've seen in previous editions. For example:

Victorian Fantasy: Investigator, Alchemist, Vigilante (the blooded noble, hero by night)
Steampunk Fantasy: Investigator, Alchemist, Gunslinger, Magus, etc.
Wild Tribal: Bloodrager, Barbarian, Ranger, Druid, Shaman, Witch (I'm aware "wild fantasy" was an option before, but PF has provided arcane "wild" classes for use in such a setting, which greatly expands this option)

I'm a little under the weather at the moment, but this is just off the top of my head. This doesn't even mention the airship rules, for example, that I seem to recall poking around somewhere.

What do you think?

What other themes do you see, made available by the new classes?

And, would you work these alternate genres into your game--or have you made use of these new options in an "alternate fantasy" ...fantasy game? That just replaces the base Western or Eastern fantasy assumptions outright?


Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber

classes aren't fluff

as spoken from the righteous barbarian knight and the witchdoctor alchemist.


Bandw2 wrote:

classes aren't fluff

as spoken from the righteous barbarian knight and the witchdoctor alchemist.

To be fair, that's a separate argument--classes existing only as set of rules or as designed along a theme with an intended style. This thread is asking something different.

If you'd like to tackle that, let's take it to a different thread?


Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber

no, i'm simply rejecting the question, as no I don't see this as expanding the genre, or giving us new themes to work with.


Bandw2 wrote:
no, i'm simply rejecting the question, as no I don't see this as expanding the genre, or giving us new themes to work with.

Well, ok. :3


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To some extent the "____ Adventures" books could very well turn into a line along those lines, but in some ways the subject that gets muddled. A good chunk of the classes are generic enough to not need to be chained to a genre concept, and Golarion has been sort of Victorian-pulp with a lot of things within the general fantasy fiction realm falling into one country or another so It may be too late to start dividing classes into genres. That said, even with psionics around I never felt a real penny dreadful tone of magic until Occult Adventures so there's certainly room for "Steam Adventures", "Modern Adventures", "Space Adventures" ect.

But there are some obstacles. I've seen many technology based classes and rules and one thing that Paizo's Technology Guide and Rogue Genius Games' Anachronistic Adventurers (and more recently Anachronistic Adventures) proved to me is that the only thing separating a normal Pathfinder Fighter and a Futuristic space soldier is different weapon proficiencies, so any kind of 'Genre Adventures' books that could come over the horizon don't really need new classes to exist. The other obstacle is that Third Party has covered a lot of ground so it's not that valuable for Paizo to spread itself thin. Another obstacle is genre opinion differences. If players play Pathfinder in spaaaaaaaaace, what is the role of magic? Do you use magic as it is? Do you replace it with Psionics? everyone has a different opinion on how even that corner of the rules would work and ultimately it depends on the tone and setting you want to deal with and no one will be satisfied with any unified answer.


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Classes of course can be refluffed however you want, and some classes are simple or generic enough that you can toss them into any type of campaign with mild adjustment. But sometimes it easier and faster to create new classes that fit a concept better. I mean, classes like the investigator are just tooled to fit a specific niche, and require less system mastery to get at a Sherlock Holmes concept than trying to retrofit a rogue or bard, especially if your retrofitting causes you to get stuck with features don't fit your class.

I think there is lots of room for Pathfinder to grow into specific genres, which will mostly result in new archetypes but also some new classes. For instance I would love to see an artificer pop up in a Steampunk Adventures book, something that I don't think you can really emulate at first level today using Paizo products


I do sadly doubt they'll be a Modern Adventures book, simply because even if Earth exists in "Golarion", time travel doesn't.


Milo v3 wrote:
I do sadly doubt they'll be a Modern Adventures book, simply because even if Earth exists in "Golarion", time travel doesn't.

Actually, someone correct me if I am wrong but according to Reign of Winter... I am pretty sure both Earth AND time travel exist.

Sovereign Court

Alexander S. Modeus wrote:
Milo v3 wrote:
I do sadly doubt they'll be a Modern Adventures book, simply because even if Earth exists in "Golarion", time travel doesn't.
Actually, someone correct me if I am wrong but according to Reign of Winter... I am pretty sure both Earth AND time travel exist.

Not time travel but earth does exist as an alternate material plane. Earth is the homeworld of Baba Yaga officially in the lore. Currently compared to Golarion history, Earth is around the 1920s.


In a way a Modern Golarion could work Osirion is Egypt, Andoran is America. Not every country is there, but in a Fantasy Modern, I think it could work.


Actually... Now that I think about it, even though time travel "doesn't exist" according to the dev's and they don't want to touch it because it can just make stories complicated and broken, aren't there creatures like the Hounds of Tindalos and an Aeon dedicated to killing people that time travel?

So there is some hope... sorta...


Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber
MMCJawa wrote:
Classes of course can be refluffed however you want, and some classes are simple or generic enough that you can toss them into any type of campaign with mild adjustment. But sometimes it easier and faster to create new classes that fit a concept better.

It's funny you say that, I actually made a class that makes magical powered suits and mechs. it's based off of synth summoner and the machinesmith. sure I could have done a synthsummoner, but I wanted a more specilized spell list and some better abilities, while also trying to not make it OP like the synth. I also fixed the problem with synth summoner by using all the mental stats as the base line for the physical stats of the suit, then adjusting them based on the base form. so the class is Kinda mad in that it requires all 3 mental stats, which is actually I think worse than most martials who need 1-2 physical stats and 1 mental stat, I can't get a belt and headband as the suit specifically calls out that it is unaffected by enhancement bonuses to physical scores.


Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber
Milo v3 wrote:

Actually... Now that I think about it, even though time travel "doesn't exist" according to the dev's and they don't want to touch it because it can just make stories complicated and broken, aren't there creatures like the Hounds of Tindalos and an Aeon dedicated to killing people that time travel?

So there is some hope... sorta...

they fear what would happen if a wizard could time travel, just so much would be borked about plots.


Earth exists due to Reign of Winter. Time travel exists due to Time Dragons from bestiary 4.


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Eltacolibre wrote:
Alexander S. Modeus wrote:
Milo v3 wrote:
I do sadly doubt they'll be a Modern Adventures book, simply because even if Earth exists in "Golarion", time travel doesn't.
Actually, someone correct me if I am wrong but according to Reign of Winter... I am pretty sure both Earth AND time travel exist.
Not time travel but earth does exist as an alternate material plane. Earth is the homeworld of Baba Yaga officially in the lore. Currently compared to Golarion history, Earth is around the 1920s.

Also, Cthulhu lives on Earth, not Golarian.

R'lyeh
Cthulhu
Earth

your welcome :P

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