Starting RotRL--Any Advice?


Rise of the Runelords


Hello everyone!

I'm very new to putting on the GM hat, though I've been a gamer for years, mostly playing various White Wolf games and some D&D. I and a few family members have decided we'd like to try a tabletop RPG of our own. As the most experienced with playing such things, I volunteered to GM. After some fairly lengthy research, I've decided on the Pathfinder system, and am planning to run the Anniversary Edition Rise of the Runelords path with my group starting in about six weeks. I've read through the first two books thus far, and am quite enjoying the story! I wonder, however...is there any advice some of you more experienced GMs and/or players might have for a new GM that wants to be sure her players have a good experience with the campaign?

Thanks so much for any tips you might have to offer!

Silver Crusade Contributor

Welcome to the game, and to the forums!

My advice:

1. If possible, try to become an expert on the campaign. This can be as little as reading over the adventures a few times (to get a better understanding of the flow of events), or can extend to learning more about the setting (such as with other books).

I would highly recommend Varisia, Birthplace of Legends, both for you and your players. It'll tell you more about Varisia, and give your players some Varisia-specific character options to consider.

2. It might be a little soon for this, so don't feel pressured. I've found that tailoring elements of the game - even minor ones - to the PCs can reward investment. For example, if one of the players decides that his character's father was killed by orcs, maybe have some orcs appear - allied with the foes in books 3 or 4.

It's important not to derail the main plot with this, though - it's a careful balancing act, and I understand if it sounds like a bit much for your first campaign. If you have a specific change you'd like to make and want feedback, feel free to PM me or post here.

Those are my first thoughts - if I come up with more, I'll post them below. Good luck, and I hope you have fun! ^_^


Yes, I just picked up Varisia, Birthplace of Legends anticipating this! I'm the sort that loves knowing what's going on and how various seemingly unrelated events might just happen to work in each others' favor--or each against the other. I'm definitely going to become as educated on the campaign as possible, which is one reason I'm asking for tips about two months before I plan to start. I've read through Burnt Offerings twice now, though only once through Skinsaw Murders of yet. I figured that for now, at least, it was more important to become thoroughly familiar with the opening, and make sure I know where the whole story goes all in all.

I like the suggestion to insert hooks for my players into the story. I don't know yet what they'll end up choosing to play, but one of them is already starting to mutter about different character ideas that won't leave her alone. I know she'll give me something I can weave into the story, and I've high hopes that at least two of the other three will as well.

Thank you for your thoughts! It's definitely good to hear some ideas from people I know have to have a lot more experience with this than I do just yet. :)


My advice would be also on the grounds of reading a lot! The adventure path and of course the rules.


Random tips:
1. Read the entire AP at least once through before starting (or before getting too far.) The AP returns again and again to Sandpoint - you should understand those events as you and your group make your way through the first chapter - including any player backgrounds. It's also important for you to understand how the books are connected to one another. If only so you don't unintentionally make changes that invalidate any of those connections. The most obvious of these is the connection between the very first events of book 1 and the trouble of book 2.

2. Direct your players to the Player's Guide for Rise of the Runelords - it's a free download. Get the one for the original, it's more helpful for people new to Varisia.

3. Check out the Community Created Stuff sticky thread. It's chock full of complete awesomeness of helpful material. You probably can't/won't use all of it but I find it impossible to believe you won't find plenty you can use. Take some time to review the GM reference threads as well at least for the book you're in and the next one - you can learn about challenges other GM's have had in the past.

4 <looks both ways conspiratorially and whispers> Don't let it get out lest we jinx it, but this forum has all kinds of helpful people who actually try to help if you post questions. Very non-Internet-like. So come back with any questions.

Silver Crusade Contributor

Latrecis brings up another important topic - Sandpoint.

It is vitally important that your players become invested in Sandpoint and its citizens, whether that's through conversations in the Rusty Dragon, hunting with Shalelu or Aldern, politics with the Scarnettis and Jubrayl Vhiski, or Shayliss's... attentions. (Note that the Vinder family is related to later events in Book 2 - make sure to set up their family dynamic, at least a little.)

There are certain NPCs whose importance is more obvious - Ameiko and Lonjiku, Aldern Foxglove, etc. - but the other citizens can add a lot. Just make sure the PCs don't get so wrapped up in local events that they forget to adventure. ^_^


Celissa wrote:

Hello everyone!

I'm very new to putting on the GM hat, though I've been a gamer for years, mostly playing various White Wolf games and some D&D. I and a few family members have decided we'd like to try a tabletop RPG of our own. As the most experienced with playing such things, I volunteered to GM. After some fairly lengthy research, I've decided on the Pathfinder system, and am planning to run the Anniversary Edition Rise of the Runelords path with my group starting in about six weeks. I've read through the first two books thus far, and am quite enjoying the story! I wonder, however...is there any advice some of you more experienced GMs and/or players might have for a new GM that wants to be sure her players have a good experience with the campaign?

Thanks so much for any tips you might have to offer!

This is not strictly just a Rise of the Runelords campaign (its the six book sod RotRL, four others from other AP's and much of my own stuff all together telling one story), but there is a wealth of information on this site, including lots of great images to show your players, and more is being added every day. Use the drop-down menus under the subcategory headings to navigate through. I hope it provides something useful as we continue on, and if there are any questions about the site, our campaign or your own, please don't hesitate to drop me a line.

Happy gaming.

http://rotrl.wikia.com/wiki/RotRL_Wiki


There's already some very good advice here. I will add my voice to stressing the use of Sandpoint.. try to play up the NPCs as people, with quirks, likes, dislikes.. the more real they feel to the players, the better.

Syrinscape has licensed RotRL to produce sound packs for. These are coordinated sound-and-music packs with pre-defined sets for each part of the adventure. So there is a sound pack for each book of RotRL, and several sound sets for the sections within each book.

Wayfinder (the free fanzine published by Paizo Fans United under the Community Use Policy) is a fantastic resource for this. The first two volumes are a bit of a hodge-podge, with bits from all over the setting and only a couple from Varisia specifically, but well worth it. Wayfinder #7 is focused on the initial 3 Varisia-specific APs and has a wealth of material you may find useful.

If you can, print the handouts and give them to the players.

Depending on your budget:

Magnimar: City of Monuments can help to add detail to the city.

Lost Cities of Golarion presents the end goal location in a "five years later" view (presuming the original edition timeline). You may or may not find that helpful.

Lost Kingdoms presents information on Thassilon.

If you are using a tabletop grid, the Pathfinder Pawns collection for RotRL may be useful; or the Pathfinder Paper Minis sets.. these were updated after the RotRL Anniversary Edition was published to include artwork for new characters/encounters.

If you are using a VTT program, Devin Night has some free Pathfinder token sets based on the Iconics, including some characters from RotRL (Koruvus, Gogmurt, and more).


Let people have a look at the Player Guide (I think you can get this as a separate free pdf on the downloads area), and seriously consider having each character pick a free/bonus Story Feat related to the Adventure. These are useful in supplying a character background and goals that fit in with Sandpoint and the surrounding area.

Maybe a small handout for the PCs (this could be a little different for each PC depending on the Story Feat) i.e. a few short sentences on NPCs for PCs that know the area (they don't need to know everyone, or all their secrets).

If the players are willing to put some creative input in, have them write a paragraph or two on their character and maybe a picture of what they look like? And read out at the opening scenario when each character meets each other.

A labelled map printout of Sandpoint is useful (so you don't have to keep showing the book and having to try hide what's on the other pages)?

Our DM slotted in an adventure from Magnimar about Sarenrae when we were there for part of book 2, which fitted well with one of the PCs.

Anyhow, I hope you all have fun like our group did :D


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Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Lost Omens Subscriber

This is not always feasible, but I had two different "first" sessions. I had two PCs enter Sandpoint for the first time, meet different people and have them visit locations that were relevant to them individually. I did the same with the other two PCs later that week. That way, each character had connections to different aspects of the town, and there was plenty of time for one-on-one rp. Ultimately, I had them all meet up in The Rusty Dragon in the third session.

Everyone's comments about how important it is to have the players invested in Sandpoint are spot on. I am moving pretty quickly through the AP, but it was definitely worth taking time to establish relationships and connections in the opening chapters.


The adventure Doki-Chan mentioned is Dawn of the Scarlet Sun and is available free HERE at Paizo.com.

In addition, if your budget allows, the Rise of the Runelords Face cards HERE might be useful, too.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber

Late to the party - its been a busy weekend, I ment to respond to this earlier, but I was combing through stuff to find the right links.

Get Yossarian's Guide to Sandpoint

Get Wayfinder 7(free from the Paizo store):

This makes a great player handout here.

Get the players interested in, caring about the people in town. When they go to the store to purchase a thing, at the very least, make sure that they know the name of the person who owns and runs the shop.

Make sure to spend as much time as you can before you really head into Burnt Offerings. My party is all locals, I ran a small event DURING the Late Unplesantness for each character just to give them some history in town, and led into the start of Burnt Offerings by having them in town while the festival was still being set up, but do what you need to motivate your players.

Sandpoint is going to be a focus point for quite a bit of the AP, the players need to care about it.

Pay attention to any weird thing you see in this forum - other DMs have great ideas, steal shamelessly.

Some that I've been able to mine for a lot of information and ideas are:

Stonk wrote a bunch of great flavor events here.

Karolina Dean wrote a long post detailing her experience with completing RotRL that she just finished here, I think its pretty useful here

Story Archer has already given you links to a big mashup that is mostly RotRL that has fun stuff to swipe.

Askren has some interesting ideas on how to alter Skinsaw.

There is some great stuff on the Grauls in Hook Mountain here.

and Ckorik wrote some nice notes about it as well here.

And if you run into a problem come back here with more questions!


Other tidbits:

As you're new, don't rush.. don't feel like you have to get it perfect the first time through. Don't make it any harder on yourself than you must.

Concentrate on having fun together.. it needs to be fun on both sides of the screen.

So, TheLorax mentioned locals. Most of the descriptions of Sandpoint seem to be phrased assuning the PCs are not locals, and have just arrived. The Goblin Watcher campaign trait makes the PC a local to Sandpoint. It is likely going to be easier on you if *everyone* is a local, or *no one* is a local. Mixing the two is likely the most difficult approach.

Otherwise.. depending on your budget... you might want to consider picking up some parts of other APs that take place in Varisia (more appealing if you want to read them regardless of whether your friends take to gaming or not):

Second Darkness presents the city of Riddleport and a relative of one of the NPCs in Burnt Offerings (as well as some details of his backstory). The Players' Companion and Volume 1 are all you would need from this AP ... the rest takes place elsewhere. If some of these NPCs happen to pass through Sandpoint while the PCs are there.. that could become fun later.

Shattered Star is something of a sequel to the early Varisia APs. Volume 1 takes place in Magnimar, and there are NPCs and scenes that you can steal to make the place even more detailed. It could be fun to have some of these NPCs just appear as "walk on" characters, only to be more significant if the players go on to play the later AP.

Jade Regent has more information on Ameiko and Shalelu, as well as Koya Mvashti (a daughter of Madame Mvashti) and Sandru Vhiski in the Jade Regent Players' Guide. If your players are interested in romance with some of them, the Relationship rules in Ultimate Campaign appeared here originally, and some guidelines on how to use them with these NPCs are provided.


Also, the scenario out of the beginner's box set might be able to be run as a prequel to the first scenario in Sandpoint, if you want...

If it helps, a good character hook is to have a PC come back to Sandpoint after having left for several years, possibly for the festival... (this is similar to what the NPC Ameiko did before doing what she is doing at the start of the Scenario); she's a pretty well described NPC, and the Campaign Trait linking to her is quite good. (my own PC had left Sandpoint just before the Unpleasantness, traveled about for around 5-6 years, and came back for the festival after finally hearing of some bad news...)

This may be obvious, but try not to have too many of one type of character, as being without a meatshield or a healer will be a little more difficult (although there are ways of overcoming this). Certain classes synergize better than others...

Don't be afraid to change a minor magic loot to something of equivalent price that the characters can use, such as a longsword to a scimitar (unless it's a plot item),

OR if it's an obviously evil item, consider letting them sell it to a church so the local clergy can either keep it from falling into the wrong hands, or "de-evil" it in some way for a fee...


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Doki-Chan wrote:
...if it's an obviously evil item, consider letting them sell it to a church so the local clergy can either keep it from falling into the wrong hands, or "de-evil" it in some way for a fee...

Wish I could provide a precise reference but I believe this is either an "official" rule or a quasi-official rule: players can sell evil items to good temples for the standard sale price (1/2 Core Rulebook price.) Regardless of officialness, I would definitely recommend it as a practice unless you have a specific reason not to such as you are running an evil campaign. Which for RotR and the OP's new-to-GM state, I would not recommend.


If you like the "parchment" map in the Varisia player Companion, there's a poster-size version of the same map in the Shattered Star Map Folio, along with poster maps of Magnimar and Kaer Maga. The Kaer Maga map may not be of immediate use to you, but if you like poster maps, the other two are likely to be of use.

Silver Crusade Contributor

Urath DM wrote:
If you like the "parchment" map in the Varisia player Companion, there's a poster-size version of the same map in the Shattered Star Map Folio, along with poster maps of Magnimar and Kaer Maga. The Kaer Maga map may not be of immediate use to you, but if you like poster maps, the other two are likely to be of use.

Ooh - I might need to get this myself.


I highly recommend Wayfinder 7, (it's free!) especially the games listed for the festival. This is a great way to introduce certain NPCs that wouldn't seem very interesting otherwise. Also, I would try to include NPCs that hint at further connections outside of Sandpoint as well as the peoples inside Sandpoint. People from Fort Rannick, or Turtleback Ferry, or Magnimar also enjoying the festival really helps tie Sandpoint in with the rest of Varisia, and these places will come up again in the AP.

When I ran it I also had a cooking contest, which solidified the idea of Ameiko quite a bit more, but it really depends on who the PCs latch onto. I would make the innkeeper or tavern owner the PCs latch onto the most the winner of the cooking contest. Also, where it says Ameiko gives them a week of free board, I would change that to whoever the PCs indicate they enjoy the most. (Most of the time it will be Ameiko, but you never know)

As far as party balance, you may want to encourage a session zero, as described by dawnforgedcast (check him out on youtube, he's awesome). Also, as this is your first time DMing, I recommend removing certain alignments for consideration (I removed Chaotic Neutral and all the evil alignments for players). Your players may be mature and good enough at RPing to handle playing said alignments, but the AP is aimed at a mostly good party. Otherwise you have little reason to do certain things later on.

Also, the first couple of encounters aren't terribly challenging, and ease the DM into playing with more than one monster. I recommend playing up the skeleton's DR though, as DR is one thing that pops up a LOT in the first book. And it's all different types, so it can really make anyone playing a melee character feel ineffective.

If no one shows much interest in Madame Mvashti, I would save her as a trump card of sorts, to use if the party starts going off the rails. You can impart information through the Harrow Reading that otherwise would be difficult to justify.

Also, you should play up many of the nobles listed in Sandpoint, so that when Skinsaw starts, Lordship is ambiguous.


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I would just like to say thank you all again for this fantastic advice. I've been browsing through this forum religiously for a little while now, particularly the threads regarding things people changed and the community created goodies. I've found a lot of tidbits that I can throw in to keep my PCs on track, as well as things to do when they decide to wander hopelessly OFF track, as I know PCs are prone to doing sometimes! My Scrivener file of campaign planning is growing fatter by the day, and my group of players-to-be is getting anxious to start. :)


Kalindlara wrote:
Urath DM wrote:
If you like the "parchment" map in the Varisia player Companion, there's a poster-size version of the same map in the Shattered Star Map Folio, along with poster maps of Magnimar and Kaer Maga. The Kaer Maga map may not be of immediate use to you, but if you like poster maps, the other two are likely to be of use.
Ooh - I might need to get this myself.

With the many adventure paths set in Varisia, i've never gotten so much value out of one map pack, excerpt maybe Kingmaker:-)


Depending on how new your players are, you may want to consider giving them pre-generated characters. If you allow them to create their own, I would suggest limiting the races to the Core Rulebook at first, and using a higher point-buy method (20 pts). Discourage taking a reduced score (less than 10) for more points, as new players can be surprised by the effects of penalties on other rolls.

Otherwise, for atmosphere, paying attention to the weather for each day can be a good detail to include. I use the historical weather from a real-world city (Seattle, WA) for Sandpoint. This can be found HERE.

Also, other resources:

Undead Unleashed:
Contains a write-up of Ordellia Whilwren's ghost as a mostly-helpful presence in the Ordellia neighborhood of Magnimar.. and her haunted townhouse.

Godsmouth Heresy:
Contains a new monster, the Rune Guardian, a low-power construct from Thassilon.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber

A few more resources that could help are -

Triks DM prep sheets here.

And because really, you can never have enough high pitched squeeky goblin singing, theres lots more goblin songs here.

Outside of reading and re-reading the AP, ESPECIALLY Burnt Offerings, the best advice I can give is to try to introduce NPCs before you NEED to for their first scene.

I added several of the townsfolk to every one of the scenes of "Goblins in the streets!" along with several extra goblins to get killed by NPCs (or die in horrible/comic ways). Keep looking forward to who needs to be used in the next part, and lets the players at least MEET the person before the NPC (dies from having a goblin eat his face/succumbs to ghoul fever/gets shoved into a log splitter/tries to seduce a random party member).


Yes, I've read my way through the bulk of the adventure path now--I'm about a quarter of the way into Sins of the Saviors--and have been focusing on Burnt Offerings. I plan to encourage my players to make characters with ties to Sandpoint, be they friends and family in the area, or whatnot. This should make it a fairly simple task to ensure that the PCs are interested in what's going on in Sandpoint, and are willing to fight for its well-being. I've a file padded with details about relevant NPCs--not just the more major characters like Ameiko or Shalelu or Aldern Foxglove, but less important people that should be no less interesting. Besides, the more I can flesh out random people, the less easy it is to figure out precisely who's supposed to "matter", if the latter sort are the only ones with well-constructed personas!

My players are all quite new, and include my somewhat impetuous fifteen-year-old daughter, so the suggestion of a higher point-buy is a good one. While I think it's important that the PCs should feel challenged by their encounters, I don't think that I should end up with a dead character every other fight either. Some of the encounters, such as some of the haunts in Misgivings, I may need to tone down just a little, I think, but we'll see how stat point totals even out. Character death on occasion is part of adventuring, and I'll explain it as such when it happens, but I don't want PCs expiring in every play session. Well, if they do exceedingly stupid things, they may deserve it occasionally, but yes. ;)


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber

Fortunately, goblins make great early opponents, as they are likely to make lots of sub-optimal but hilarious combat choices, choices which could easily fail, or be only marginally effective.

If the goblins seem to be doing well - they'll get excited and try more crazy stunts, often trying to light something on fire or breaking something.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber

As far as the Haunts go in Misgivings (and the Chopper's Isle side quest from Wayfinder 7, which I turned into nothing but haunts) I'd worry less about what mechanically is supposed to happen when the haunts are activated, and more about how they tell the tale of what has happened.

If they scare the players, erode their resources and degrade the PCs effectiveness and impart the story, then they've done their job.


start with something smaller
so your new players can learn and play around
before they are tied to a character for six AP chapters


Lamontius wrote:

start with something smaller

so your new players can learn and play around
before they are tied to a character for six AP chapters

If you do go that route, the module The Godsmouth Heresy is for 1st level characters and is set in Varisia (at Kaer Maga).

Spoiler:
It also has some Thassilonian hints, like the Rune Guardian and Lustspawn, that may add to RotRL.


This NPC guide from Yossarian is amazing. Yossarian fleshed out some of the factions present in Sandpoint, and gave them some motives.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/10866745/Sandpoint_guide_v1.2.pdf


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langen wrote:

This NPC guide from Yossarian is amazing. Yossarian fleshed out some of the factions present in Sandpoint, and gave them some motives.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/10866745/Sandpoint_guide_v1.2.pdf

LINK

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