Spellstrike while grappled


Rules Questions

Sczarni

Hello everyone,

On our last homegame session a question popped up which can be interpreted in several possible ways. A player playing a magus character was grappled and attempted to use Spellstrike in the process at which point I pointed out that Spellstrike requires two hands to work properly so the action wasn't possible. He could still attempt to cast the spell while grappled, just not by delivering it through the weapon. My logic as a GM behind it was that a magus uses one hand to cast and another to deliver attacks, hence the two hands being used in the process. Several players interjected with interpretation that two-hands activity is only for two-handed weapons or that magus could simply shift his sword after casting a spell to another hand. They are all valid responses to a degree so I am here asking, is it possible to Spellstrike while grappled?

Relevant texts:

Grappled Target wrote:
If you are grappled, you can attempt to break the grapple as a standard action by making a combat maneuver check (DC equal to your opponent's CMD; this does not provoke an attack of opportunity) or Escape Artist check (with a DC equal to your opponent's CMD). If you succeed, you break the grapple and can act normally. Alternatively, if you succeed, you can become the grappler, grappling the other creature (meaning that the other creature cannot freely release the grapple without making a combat maneuver check, while you can). Instead of attempting to break or reverse the grapple, you can take any action that doesn’t require two hands to perform, such as cast a spell or make an attack or full attack with a light or one-handed weapon against any creature within your reach, including the creature that is grappling you. See the grappled condition for additional details. If you are pinned, your actions are very limited. See the pinned condition in Conditions for additional details.
Spellstrike wrote:
At 2nd level, whenever a magus casts a spell with a range of “touch” from the magus spell list, he can deliver the spell through any weapon he is wielding as part of a melee attack. Instead of the free melee touch attack normally allowed to deliver the spell, a magus can make one free melee attack with his weapon (at his highest base attack bonus) as part of casting this spell. If successful, this melee attack deals its normal damage as well as the effects of the spell. If the magus makes this attack in concert with spell combat, this melee attack takes all the penalties accrued by spell combat melee attacks. This attack uses the weapon’s critical range (20, 19–20, or 18–20 and modified by the keen weapon property or similar effects), but the spell effect only deals ×2 damage on a successful critical hit, while the weapon damage uses its own critical modifier.
Magic wrote:
To cast a spell, you must be able to speak (if the spell has a verbal component), gesture (if it has a somatic component), and manipulate the material components or focus (if any). Additionally, you must concentrate to cast a spell.

Several topics that I managed to search through mostly agreed that you cannot use TWF while grappled, so I kind of assumed same logic in this case but the opinions were split about it in the end.

Thanks upfront for responses,

Adam


From the rules on the grappled condition:

Quote:
The only spells which can be cast while grappling or pinned are those without somatic components and whose material components (if any) you have in hand.

This means that if it were a spell he could cast anyway, it wouldn't have a somatic component, and thus the issue of not having a hand free to cast that spell would not be an issue.

However, you are correct that you normally need one hand to preform the gestures required to cast the spell and the other to deliver it via a weapon, since holding the weapon makes you unable to perform the gestures on that hand.

So yes, the magus can spellstrike while grappled, but this is entirely dependent on whether or not he can even cast the spell in the first place. A good example is if he augmented a spell with still spell, but most magi don't take still spell since they don't suffer ASF from their armor anyway.


If the spell is one that the magus can cast while grappled, which as noted above requires it to be enhanced with the Still Spell metamagic feat or to lack somatic components normally, then she can spellstrike with it.

Spellstrike has NOTHING to do with Spell combat or TWF, and does not require two hands except insofar as casting the spell requires a free hand. A one-armed magus could cast with one hand, draw his sword, and attack using spellstrike.

Sczarni

So what basically both of you are saying is that Spellstrike is an ability that ignores such restriction because a grappled character could switch the hand he is using and be unaffected by it? Or at least, that's how my brain registered it. I guess it would make sense. Maybe I am just digging too deep into interpretations.

A follow up question about somatic components, can the person ignore Somatic component requirement if it succeeds on Concentration check or simply put, spells with Somatic components do not function (unless of course caster has means to bypass is via Still Spell or such)? This question kind of always troubled me.

Adam

Grand Lodge

Please don't misconstrue terms, which are common amongst these two abilities.

Spell Combat requires two hands, even without somatic components. One to attack and one to cast. This grants a full melee option while casting a spell. This would be prohibited by a magus under the grappled condition.

Spell Strike is using a melee weapon attack to deliver the spell. If the spell was charged previously, there is no issue or prohibition affected by grapple so long as it is a light or 1 handed weapon. Additionally, if he cast it with his left hand, he can still deliver the spell with his right hand sword via the "free" touch granted by the spell.

This is akin to iterative attacks being used with an off-hand weapon, but not two weapon style fighting since feats aren't used to create more attacks.


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Malag wrote:

So what basically both of you are saying is that Spellstrike is an ability that ignores such restriction because a grappled character could switch the hand he is using and be unaffected by it? Or at least, that's how my brain registered it. I guess it would make sense. Maybe I am just digging too deep into interpretations.

A follow up question about somatic components, can the person ignore Somatic component requirement if it succeeds on Concentration check or simply put, spells with Somatic components do not function (unless of course caster has means to bypass is via Still Spell or such)? This question kind of always troubled me.

Adam

You just can't use spells with somatic components. I guess think of it as every time you try to do the spell you get jostled and interrupted by the person grappling with you.

Sczarni

Ah I see. I think I understand everything now.

I did come up accidentally on the FAQ about the Somatic components though but it's unconnected with current rules being used. If someone is interested, here is the response of SKR about it.

Thanks on answers everyone,

Adam

Liberty's Edge

The current text of grappling in the magic section:
quote=PRD]
Grappling or Pinned: Casting a spell while you have the grappled or pinned condition is difficult and it requires a concentration check (DC 10 + the grappler's CMB + the level of the spell you're casting). Pinned creatures can only cast spells that do not have somatic components.

The grappled condition at the end of the book require a concentration check for spell an spell like abilities, but no limits to the somatic components.

About your initial question: it is not really clear if "you can take any action that doesn't require two hands to perform," mean that you can't use a two handed weapon or if it mean that you can't use 2 weapon combat or things like spell combat, actions that require the availability of 2 hands but don't use 2 hands at the same time. (spell combat has a sequence of actions, either cast then attack as many times you can or attack and then cast,).

There is people supporting either interpretations.

Grand Lodge

Agreed, but RAW is safer until clarified.

Spell combat is an action.

It requires two hands.

Therefore, grappling would interfere as written.


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Spellcombat is not the same thing as spellstrike!

Spellcombat is not the same thing as spellstrike!

Spellcombat is not the same thing as spellstrike!

Spellcombat is not the same thing as spellstrike!

Diego Rossi, thank you for checking the text of the rules. I was relying on my memory, which was incomplete, obviously.

A character being grappled who succeeds at the concentration check CAN cast spells with somatic components. A magus can cast a spell, draw a dagger or something, and spellstrike with it, or spellstrike with an unarmed strike.

Liberty's Edge

It was changed, it is possible that you have an old CRB with the pre errata version of the rules.

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