Feat for Seventh Level Paladin


Advice


Human Oath of Vengeance paladin who is an offensive greatsword user, and I already have Arisen, Power Attack, Furious Focus and Improved Sunder.
This will be the last few sessions so we won't level up again, so no need for feats just to gain entry into other feats.

Thanks for any suggestions! :)


Leadership?

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

Hmm, You should've picked fey foundling at level 1. Too late now.
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Unsanctioned Knowledge - Pick 4 spells off other divine lists, one for each paladin level, add to your own. barkskin at level 2 is most common.

Lead Weight from the Ranger list is also useful, as might be Longstrider for level 1's, depending on if you want a short term buff or a long one.

Protection from Energy at 3 comes to mind.

Nothing comes to mind for a level 4, but I'm sure there are some great ones.
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If you are going to use longer term buffs, might not be a bad idea to plan on picking up a Rod of Extend Spell.

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Extra Mercies are always useful, building towards Ultimate Mercy that allows you to Raise Dead without material comp cost.
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Extra Lay on Hands never hurts, esp if you can convert to Smites.

I'm sure there are other good ones that are paladin-centered.

==Aelryinth


Aelryinth wrote:

Hmm, You should've picked fey foundling at level 1. Too late now.

===================
Unsanctioned Knowledge - Pick 4 spells off other divine lists, one for each paladin level, add to your own. barkskin at level 2 is most common.

Lead Weight from the Ranger list is also useful, as might be Longstrider for level 1's, depending on if you want a short term buff or a long one.

Protection from Energy at 3 comes to mind.

Nothing comes to mind for a level 4, but I'm sure there are some great ones.
===================
If you are going to use longer term buffs, might not be a bad idea to plan on picking up a Rod of Extend Spell.

========================
Extra Mercies are always useful, building towards Ultimate Mercy that allows you to Raise Dead without material comp cost.
========================
Extra Lay on Hands never hurts, esp if you can convert to Smites.

I'm sure there are other good ones that are paladin-centered.

==Aelryinth

Haste, Displacement, Divine Power, and Dimension Door are all good choices.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

Pick one 1st-level spell, one 2nd-level spell, one 3rd-level spell, and one 4th-level spell from the bard, cleric, inquisitor, or oracle spell lists. Add these spells to your paladin spell list as paladin spells of the appropriate level. Once chosen, these spells cannot be changed.

Alas, you only get one of each level, so some tough choices!

==Aelryinth

Silver Crusade

Radiant Charge? for some extra umph

Grand Lodge

Quote:
Unsanctioned Knowledge - Pick 4 spells off other divine lists, one for each paladin level, add to your own. barkskin at level 2 is most common.

I'm a fan of Good Hope and Silence. =)

Extra LoH is always a good Option for a paladin who took OoV.

Vital strike is a half decent pick.

Lunge is always a good pick.

Combat Reflexes is pretty nice if you find yourself Set up for AoOs on a regular.


I'll add Weapon Focus to the list of good feats. Boring, but it just plain increases combat effectiveness. Extra LoH and Lunge are both solid as well. Lunge gives new flexibility in combat, so it might be fun for you last few sessions.

Vital strike is ok, especially if your GM throws interesting combats at you where you have to move. It gets less good at higher levels as a spell can be much better than a single attack, but at lvl 7 its ok.

Unsanctioned Knowledge requires an int of 13. If your character already has that, your party has no support casters, and you have no way of getting scrolls, it MIGHT be a good idea to take it. Otherwise its a very bad option.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

A paladin's main dump stat is usually Wisdom. Unlike a Fighter they have a good Will save and Cha to all saves. So it's entirely likely a paladin can have an 11-12 Int and 13 is just a headband away.

Nice spells from the bard list. Silence as an offensive and stealth alternative was also nice. Dimiension door as an escape and movement alternative is quite powerful.

Is Bane Weapon on one of the lists? Being able to pretend to be an inquisitor would be too funny, as sword bond doesn't have Bane as an option.

==Aelryinth


I've always questioned Wis as a dump stat for Paladins. Yes, they can get by with it dumped, but wouldn't they be better with it not? +2 to Will and Sense Motive is nice. Eh, just my personal opinion.

I can see having a 12/13 int for skill points, but I still think Unsanctioned Knowledge is a waste of a feat. At 7th level, a Paladin only has 2 first level and 1 second level spells per day, plus maybe a few pearls of power. And they can already UMD with their Charisma and a trait. And those spells can probably already be cast by someone in the party (heck, a primary caster is already up to 4th level spells). So the gain is absolutely tiny for the feat spent.


I second the Extra Lay on Hands.

Reward of Grace could be useful, but since you're already smiting 90% of your enemies, your bonuses to hit should make you auto-hit except on 1's.

Maybe one of those Aura feats would be useful if you want to be more of a team player sort of person.

Unsanctioned Knowledge is easily one of the best Paladin feats around. The spell choices regarding the Bard are incredible (except 1st level).

1st level, there isn't anything that comes to mind; Feather Fall would be a nice contingency. Ear-Piercing Scream does some damage and potentially dazes an enemy. Touch of Gracelessness can be flavored as exposing the faults of your enemy, providing a 1D6 +1/2 levels Dex penalty, making it much easier for you to hit your enemies. Any of these are decent choices.

2nd level, there is Blur (not so great), Mirror Images (awesome defensive spell), Heroism (pretty good), Rage (decent), and Silence (nice crowd control). I personally like Mirror Images, since it's a personal spell (and you can't share those), but Heroism is also great if you don't have anyone with that spell in your party, and lasts quite a long time.

3rd level, Haste would be an awesome choice, especially being self-reliant. Good Hope is also a great choice, followed by Slow. Outside that, nothing else pops up.

4th level, Freedom of Movement is one of the most powerful features you could ask for. Greater Invisibility also allows for some neat utility (though it might go against your paladin code of honor), and Wall of Sound is certainly unique and a great means of crowd control.


Vanish is a pretty great way to stroll through the rabble and pounce the evil boss. Bonus fun if they're a spellcaster who doesn't realize they're about to provoke. This is assuming, of course, that the GM isn't one of those people who think that being a Paladin means you have to walk to up your enemies loudly proclaiming that you're about to hit them...

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

You could ask about trying out variant multiclassing... You'd have to drop a feat (since you would have lost your 3rd level feat, along with giving up your 7th level feat), but there's a bunch of options that could be interesting/fun/effective for a 2hander pally:
- cleric would get you a domain power (at full level) and some extra channels (they'd only be 1d6 but could work for out of combat group heals or to power a greyflame enchant or something)
- sorcerer has a bunch of options depending on what bloodline might fit your character
- cavalier would let you stack smite and challenge to really lay a hurting on BBEG
- inquisitor ups your intimidate if you're using that, and gets you judgment
- oracle would get you one revelation, like life link if you want to make sure someone else stays alive while you're killing things

There's other options too, those are just some that stood out to me.


If you're a paladin of Iomedae, Hands of Valor is pretty nice, as is Battle Cry.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Are you allowed 3pp feats? Mystic Healer would give you +2d6 to your cures and LoHs and channel energy...


Greater Mercy is good for a self healing buff.

Charge of the Righteous is good if you fight lots of undead or evil outsiders.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

Calling UMD an out for the paladin is forcing the paladin to spend precious gold and rarer skill points for the benefit. Sure, it might work. But the cost is quite high.

Unsanctioned Knowledge in effect lets the paladin set just what kind of paladin he'd like to be by his unorthodox spells and the tactics that will arise off of them. It's a great feat.

And Pearls of Power are cheap!

==Aelryinth


I like the flavor of Unsanctioned Knowledge quite a bit, but mechanically it has very little going for it. Paladins get very few spell slots, but have absolutely amazing spells on their own list, many of which are swift or immediate actions. Meanwhile, other classes have been able to cast these spells for ages and will probably have better durations/DC's on them. From the perspective of the party, the feat adds no new spells and no new spell slots. Meanwhile, it has cost a feat - and Paladins are feat starved enough that there is always something good to take - and requires an int of 13, which fuels precisely 0 Paladin class abilities.

UMD is easy to get good enough for out of combat utility - a trait and +3 Cha gives ranks + 7, more as Cha goes up. DC's are 20 or 20 + spell level - not hard if you aren't under time pressure. A single rank is good enough, though the danger of rolling a 1 and being cut off for 24 hours is annoying. Wands and scrolls are even cheaper than pearls of power :P.

I see feats as being extremely valuable - much more so than gold. Especially for a Paladin!


Thaago wrote:

I like the flavor of Unsanctioned Knowledge quite a bit, but mechanically it has very little going for it. Paladins get very few spell slots, but have absolutely amazing spells on their own list, many of which are swift or immediate actions. Meanwhile, other classes have been able to cast these spells for ages and will probably have better durations/DC's on them. From the perspective of the party, the feat adds no new spells and no new spell slots. Meanwhile, it has cost a feat - and Paladins are feat starved enough that there is always something good to take - and requires an int of 13, which fuels precisely 0 Paladin class abilities.

UMD is easy to get good enough for out of combat utility - a trait and +3 Cha gives ranks + 7, more as Cha goes up. DC's are 20 or 20 + spell level - not hard if you aren't under time pressure. A single rank is good enough, though the danger of rolling a 1 and being cut off for 24 hours is annoying. Wands and scrolls are even cheaper than pearls of power :P.

I see feats as being extremely valuable - much more so than gold. Especially for a Paladin!

Unsanctioned Knowledge is extremely powerful from a solo perspective. Even if we throw it into a party, it still grants the Paladin much more utility than UMD ever could grant, and it doesn't require constant investments to make it effective. One feat, and 13 Intelligence (which would allow you to better invest in UMD anyway), is definitely a price to pay since Paladins have all kinds of immunities and ridiculous saves anyway.


Thaago wrote:

I like the flavor of Unsanctioned Knowledge quite a bit, but mechanically it has very little going for it. Paladins get very few spell slots, but have absolutely amazing spells on their own list, many of which are swift or immediate actions. Meanwhile, other classes have been able to cast these spells for ages and will probably have better durations/DC's on them. From the perspective of the party, the feat adds no new spells and no new spell slots. Meanwhile, it has cost a feat - and Paladins are feat starved enough that there is always something good to take - and requires an int of 13, which fuels precisely 0 Paladin class abilities.

UMD is easy to get good enough for out of combat utility - a trait and +3 Cha gives ranks + 7, more as Cha goes up. DC's are 20 or 20 + spell level - not hard if you aren't under time pressure. A single rank is good enough, though the danger of rolling a 1 and being cut off for 24 hours is annoying. Wands and scrolls are even cheaper than pearls of power :P.

I see feats as being extremely valuable - much more so than gold. Especially for a Paladin!

It depends on a large number of factors.

Skill ranks is one of them, not needing to invest into UMD and wands to be able to do these things is a big one.

Another factor to consider is the Dimensional Dervish line of feats, which all become available via retraining in Ultimate Campaign as soon as you hit 13th level and get your first 4th level spell slot(s). Pseudo pounce is a very strong use of your 4th level slots and repositioning is also a strong option.

Other spells to consider are Shield of Faith since paladins don't get it in this edition, and Bladed Dash which allows for a very strong and very likely to hit charge attack.

If you are only playing this once or twice more, then consider something with immediate benefits that doesn't take too much work.

You may want to consider this feat because bonuses to attack are awesome.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

Is there a force spell that paladins have? He'd also have to spend a feat on channel energy, I think.

==Aelryinth

Grand Lodge

Instant armor level 2 paladin spell is force and paladins do get channel energy at 4th level.


An 11th level Paladin trying to replicate CL10 Mirror Image and CL10 Goodhope with UMD and two wands is going to be paying 37,500 for the two, to say nothing of having to manage the actual physical wands and risking failure issues. It's certainly doable, but sometimes feats are there to be spent...


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Thanks for all the advice, everyone, I really appreciate it :) I think I will go with Extra Lay On Hands, because the healing has saved me more times than I care to remember, and hopefully we'll be facing a lot of Evil enemies in the finale so I can get good use out of turning them into Smite Evil.

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