Force weapon and what armor?


Rules Questions


Instant weapon
DESCRIPTION

You create a melee weapon sized appropriately for you from opaque force.

You are considered proficient with this weapon, which acts in all ways as a masterwork weapon typical of its type. The instant weapon has hardness 20 and the same number of hit points as a typical weapon of its type. As a force effect, it can strike and damage incorporeal creatures. If the instant weapon leaves your hand at any time, the spell ends at the beginning of your next turn.

Everything I have found that talks about force and weapons says to treat it like Ghost touch. Ghost touch says the item is treated as corporeal and incorporeal.

"An incorporeal creature’s attacks pass through (ignore) natural armor, armor, and shields, although deflection bonuses and force effects (such as mage armor) work normally against it."

So would an attack from a Ghost touch weapon / force effect be treated as an incorporeal attack?

Their are spells like Flame blade that call out that it uses touch attacks.

EDIT: actually looking through most of the summoned weapons attack touch AC.


I don't know what you've been reading, but it seems like they are comparing it to ghost touch only for the purposes of attacking an incorporeal.

Force effects still have to target normal AC unless described otherwise.

Ghost touch weapons, even when used by an incorporeal still target normal AC. The benefit they gain from such use is access to iteratives (or abilities that require a weapon), but it's usually a worse option than their innate incorporeal touch.

In short
Force effects can target ghosts normally; force effects and ghost touch do not operate under the incorporeal rules.


"Ghost Touch: A ghost touch weapon deals damage normally against incorporeal creatures, regardless of its bonus. An incorporeal creature's 50% reduction in damage from corporeal sources does not apply to attacks made against it with ghost touch weapons. The weapon can be picked up and moved by an incorporeal creature at any time. A manifesting ghost can wield the weapon against corporeal foes. Essentially, a ghost touch weapon counts as both corporeal or incorporeal."

From the PRD


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You misunderstand what that means.

It counts as both, it has to be wholly incorporeal to benefit from incorporeal rules.
The corporeal part of the weapon still interacts with matter normally, forcing you to target normal AC. This is also why a ghost can't drag one of these weapons inside a material object (like a wall) with them.


I can't find anything that says they cannot take a ghost touch weapon with them into a wall.


Is a ghost touch weapon fully incorporeal?
No? Then it can't pass through solid matter.

Partial corporeality is the reason material creatures can continue to wield them.

Edit: Actually, looking at it again, I'm wrong, a ghost touch does not change the material nature of the weapon at all, rules as written.

"counts as" literally changes nothing but how it may be used (and who can use it).


A monk's unarmed strike is treated as both a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon for the purpose of spells and effects that enhance or improve either manufactured weapons or natural weapons.

So that changes nothing right?

At 4th level, ki strike allows his unarmed attacks to be treated as magic weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction

And this to right?

So even though it overcomes magic it isn't magic right?


Correct.

UAS is listed in the Universal Monster Rules as a natural attack (yet not a weapon on the table).
UAS is then specifically assigned to use manufactured weapon rules for attacking despite being a natural attack.
The UAS weapon entry further goes on to remove UAS counting as a natural weapon, but Monks do per their description.

Being treated as both allows you to apply effects and use it for attacks that indicate either type (as long as it remains iterative).

A monk then gains a special quality as he levels that allows him to bypass certain types of DR even if his UAS does not actually have that quality. (It's not "magic" for any purpose other than DR if all you have is that ability.)
So yes, you have it right.

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