derpdidruid |
OK so the way I'm reading this is that if I take this feat in conjunction with a class that lets me use two handed weapons in one hand
(titan fighter/titan mauler) it would allowe me to use this feat with that weapon due to it being effectively a one handed weapon.
Is this how it would work or am I really bad at interpreting the rules?
derpdidruid |
No swashbucklers arnt the only people who can get Dex to hit they just get it for free under special circumstances. Looking at the feat it looks like it lets you use the finess ability with any slashing weapon. If you take the titan archatypes as a multi class.
What I'm asking is this. Does being able to one hand a weapon without penalty make it a one handed weapon for you?
Archaeik |
Cap. Darling |
Swashbuckler and DC is the only ones that Can get dex to hit with weapons that are not on the normal finesse list. Slashing grace Does not give dex to hit. And no you need the wording i mentioned.
Look at: "Jotungrip (Ex): At 2nd level, a titan mauler may choose to wield a two-handed weapon in one hand with a –2 penalty on attack rolls while doing so. The weapon must be appropriately sized for her, and it is treated as one-handed when determining the effect of Power Attack, Strength bonus to damage, and the like. This ability replaces uncanny dodge."
I would say yes for that one. It is a bad deal but yes. And you Will need swashbuckler or DC to get dex to hit.
Secane |
Slashing Grace (Combat)
Prerequisite(s): Dex 13, Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus with chosen weapon.
Benefit: Choose one kind of one-handed slashing weapon (such as the longsword). When wielding your chosen weapon one-handed, you can treat it as a one-handed piercing melee weapon for all feats and class abilities that require such a weapon (such as a swashbuckler's or a duelist's precise strike) and you can add your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier to that weapon's damage. The weapon must be one appropriate for your size.
It has to be a one-handed slashing weapon type.
Cap. Darling |
Slashing Grace (Combat)
Prerequisite(s): Dex 13, Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus with chosen weapon.
Benefit: Choose one kind of one-handed slashing weapon (such as the longsword). When wielding your chosen weapon one-handed, you can treat it as a one-handed piercing melee weapon for all feats and class abilities that require such a weapon (such as a swashbuckler's or a duelist's precise strike) and you can add your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier to that weapon's damage. The weapon must be one appropriate for your size.
It has to be a one-handed slashing weapon type.
Seems you are rigth.
derpdidruid |
Blakmane wrote:You need to actually use a one-handed slashing weapon, not a slashing weapon which you are holding in one hand.This is not supported by the FAQs though (which is contradicted by other FAQs) -- see the thread I made for the full details.
Link to said FAQ's please.
Orfamay Quest |
Look at: "Jotungrip (Ex): At 2nd level, a titan mauler may choose to wield a two-handed weapon in one hand with a –2 penalty on attack rolls while doing so. The weapon must be appropriately sized for her, and it is treated as one-handed when determining the effect of Power Attack, Strength bonus to damage, and the like. This ability replaces uncanny dodge."
I would say yes for that one. It is a bad deal but yes. And you Will need swashbuckler or DC to get dex to hit.
I think the question is whether Slashing Grace counts as "and the like."
A greatsword is a two-handed weapon, but it is "treated as one-handed" (which, n.b. is different from "a weapon wielded in one hand") for an unspecified list of abilities, including combat feats.
I see no reason why a Jotungrip-ped greatsword would not be treated as a one-handed slashing weapon as per the description above. In which case, Slashing Grace is just fine.
Quatar |
I would allow it. "and the like" sound like it was written to support future feats and abilities that weren't available yet when the titan mauler was written.
Greatsword once it looses it's 2-hand properties isn't really much scarier than a bastard sword or Katana or any of the "true one-handed weapons" really, and you're paying with at least two class level for what is essentially a +1.5 to average damage per hit (1d0 = 5.5, 2d6 = 7).
So I see no problem.
In fact I don't think the benefit is worth it, but that's maybe just me.
alexd1976 |
I would allow it. "and the like" sound like it was written to support future feats and abilities that weren't available yet when the titan mauler was written.
Greatsword once it looses it's 2-hand properties isn't really much scarier than a bastard sword or Katana or any of the "true one-handed weapons" really, and you're paying with at least two class level for what is essentially a +1.5 to average damage per hit (1d0 = 5.5, 2d6 = 7).
So I see no problem.
In fact I don't think the benefit is worth it, but that's maybe just me.
Lead Blades and Enlarge Person would bump the damage up a bit, which is probably part of what the OP is planning on doing.
I see the situation this way:
Is the Two Handed sword a one handed weapon? Yes or No?
No.
Does not qualify.
Being able to treat something as something else does not alter the state of that thing, it simply changes how YOU interact with it.
The feat requires something specific, the Two Handed sword is not that thing, thus it doesn't qualify.
Quatar |
As long as we are on the topic. What about a Bastard sword or Katana with the related Exotic Weapon Proficiency making it into one-handed weapons; can they be used with slashing grace?
The Bastard Sword and Katana are not made into one-handed weapons. They are one-handed exotic weapons.
There is an option to use them as martial weapons, but you're forced to wield them in both hands then. That's a bonus feature these weapons have.
They're not starting out as martial two-handed weapons and with an EWP feat you can use them one-handed. It's the other way around.
TL;DR: Yes, you can use them with Slashing Grace.
derpdidruid |
Quatar wrote:I would allow it. "and the like" sound like it was written to support future feats and abilities that weren't available yet when the titan mauler was written.
Greatsword once it looses it's 2-hand properties isn't really much scarier than a bastard sword or Katana or any of the "true one-handed weapons" really, and you're paying with at least two class level for what is essentially a +1.5 to average damage per hit (1d0 = 5.5, 2d6 = 7).
So I see no problem.
In fact I don't think the benefit is worth it, but that's maybe just me.
Lead Blades and Enlarge Person would bump the damage up a bit, which is probably part of what the OP is planning on doing.
I see the situation this way:
Is the Two Handed sword a one handed weapon? Yes or No?
No.
Does not qualify.
Being able to treat something as something else does not alter the state of that thing, it simply changes how YOU interact with it.
The feat requires something specific, the Two Handed sword is not that thing, thus it doesn't qualify.
I was actually doing g this mostly for flavore, I really liked the imagery of a quick worrior wielding with great guil what is typacly a brutish weapon. The power is defiantly sub par and the only way enlarge person would help is with dmg dice, it would hurt my to hit.
I suppose I will just mull it over with my gm as the opinion seems to be split. I was really just hoping to find if there was a definitive ruling on this.
Quatar |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I see the situation this way:Is the Two Handed sword a one handed weapon? Yes or No?
No.
Does not qualify.
Being able to treat something as something else does not alter the state of that thing, it simply changes how YOU interact with it.
The feat requires something specific, the Two Handed sword is not that thing, thus it doesn't qualify.
You said it. You see it that way.
I don't. For me, if I treat X as Y in certain situations or for certain things, then it is Y for these things.
I'm still sure a straight up two-handed weapon Fighter or Barbarian using a greatsword with Enlarge and Lead Blades will be FAR MORE terrifying than what the OP is trying to accomplish.
Abraham spalding |
An unusual case of the handedness rule is an ability that allows you to treat a two-handed weapon as a one-handed weapon. For example, the titan mauler's jotungrip (which allows you to wield a two-handed weapon with one hand) allows you to wield a bastard sword in one hand even without the Exotic Weapon Proficiency, and (as the ability states) treats it as a one-handed weapon, therefore it is treated as a one-handed weapon for other effects.
My thread I referenced earlier has all the FaQs involved listened and is exactly about this issue. Effects have also already been defined to include class abilities, feats, spells, magic items and even favored class bonuses.
alexd1976 |
alexd1976 wrote:
I see the situation this way:Is the Two Handed sword a one handed weapon? Yes or No?
No.
Does not qualify.
Being able to treat something as something else does not alter the state of that thing, it simply changes how YOU interact with it.
The feat requires something specific, the Two Handed sword is not that thing, thus it doesn't qualify.
You said it. You see it that way.
I don't. For me, if I treat X as Y in certain situations or for certain things, then it is Y for these things.
I'm still sure a straight up two-handed weapon Fighter or Barbarian using a greatsword with Enlarge and Lead Blades will be FAR MORE terrifying than what the OP is trying to accomplish.
If there was a feat that allowed you to treat Crows as Monkeys, would your pet Crow now be a Monkey?
No.
Being able to treat something as something else does not transform the item into that thing.
Also, of course I said "I see it...", I only have one viewpoint, my own. I'm not going to say "You see it..."
Kazaan |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
If there was a feat that allowed you to treat Crows as Monkeys, would your pet Crow now be a Monkey?
No.
Being able to treat something as something else does not transform the item into that thing.
However, if I had an ability that allowed me to deal extra damage to Monkeys, and a feat that allowed me to treat Crows as Monkeys, then I would be able to use the first ability to deal extra damage against Crows despite them not actually being Monkeys. Otherwise, an ability that lets you wield a 2-h weapon in one hand wouldn't work because it's "still" a 2-h weapon and 2-h weapons require two hands to wield. But specific trumps general; thus an ability that lets you treat a 2-h weapon as if it were a 1-h weapon, despite it not actually being a 1-h weapon, it still qualifies for use as if it were a 1-h weapon.
To further illustrate, Dwarves treat Dwarven weapons as Martial rather than Exotic. So if you have an ability that requires you to pick a Martial weapon, your Dwarf character could pick one of these Dwarven weapons as a valid option since, for that character, the normal rules categorizing such weapons as exotic don't apply and, instead, they are treated as martial weapons.
Bandw2 |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Quatar wrote:alexd1976 wrote:
I see the situation this way:Is the Two Handed sword a one handed weapon? Yes or No?
No.
Does not qualify.
Being able to treat something as something else does not alter the state of that thing, it simply changes how YOU interact with it.
The feat requires something specific, the Two Handed sword is not that thing, thus it doesn't qualify.
You said it. You see it that way.
I don't. For me, if I treat X as Y in certain situations or for certain things, then it is Y for these things.
I'm still sure a straight up two-handed weapon Fighter or Barbarian using a greatsword with Enlarge and Lead Blades will be FAR MORE terrifying than what the OP is trying to accomplish.
If there was a feat that allowed you to treat Crows as Monkeys, would your pet Crow now be a Monkey?
No.
to me it is.
sure many call me crazy, but my murder of monkeys is a force to be seen on the battlefield.
*i stand releasing a group of crows that start swirling around me, i cast my arms to the heavens*
GO MY MONKEYS FLY!
alexd1976 |
alexd1976 wrote:Quatar wrote:alexd1976 wrote:
I see the situation this way:Is the Two Handed sword a one handed weapon? Yes or No?
No.
Does not qualify.
Being able to treat something as something else does not alter the state of that thing, it simply changes how YOU interact with it.
The feat requires something specific, the Two Handed sword is not that thing, thus it doesn't qualify.
You said it. You see it that way.
I don't. For me, if I treat X as Y in certain situations or for certain things, then it is Y for these things.
I'm still sure a straight up two-handed weapon Fighter or Barbarian using a greatsword with Enlarge and Lead Blades will be FAR MORE terrifying than what the OP is trying to accomplish.
If there was a feat that allowed you to treat Crows as Monkeys, would your pet Crow now be a Monkey?
No.
to me it is.
sure many call me crazy, but my murder of monkeys is a force to be seen on the battlefield.
*i stand releasing a group of crows that start swirling around me, i cast my arms to the heavens*
GO MY MONKEYS FLY!
You be cray-cray.
Nice imagery though.
Quatar |
Quatar wrote:alexd1976 wrote:
I see the situation this way:Is the Two Handed sword a one handed weapon? Yes or No?
No.
Does not qualify.
Being able to treat something as something else does not alter the state of that thing, it simply changes how YOU interact with it.
The feat requires something specific, the Two Handed sword is not that thing, thus it doesn't qualify.
You said it. You see it that way.
I don't. For me, if I treat X as Y in certain situations or for certain things, then it is Y for these things.
I'm still sure a straight up two-handed weapon Fighter or Barbarian using a greatsword with Enlarge and Lead Blades will be FAR MORE terrifying than what the OP is trying to accomplish.
If there was a feat that allowed you to treat Crows as Monkeys, would your pet Crow now be a Monkey?
No.
Being able to treat something as something else does not transform the item into that thing.
Also, of course I said "I see it...", I only have one viewpoint, my own. I'm not going to say "You see it..."
If I can treat Crows as Monkey for a specific thing that usually does not apply to Crows, than one of two things happen for that specific thing:
a) Crows are indeed Monkeysb) the specific thing applies to crows too
Which one of the two apply depends on the circumstance, and which makes more sense. I would guess usually b) applies. But honestly it's completely irrelevant which of the two apply, since the result is the same.
Favorite Enemy (Monkeys) now applies to Crows too. Or Crows are Monkeys and therefore Favorite Enemy (Monkeys) of course applies.
Slashing Grace now applies to two-handed slashing weapons too, as long as they're carried in one hand. Or two-handed slashing weapons that are carried in one hand are now one-handed and therefore Slashing Grace applies to them.
BadBird |
This comes up often with Phalanx Fighter as well. The problem with Slashing Grace is that the feat specifically demands that you choose a kind of one-handed slashing weapon (as per generic weapon categories) when you take the feat. Just because you can use a specific two-handed weapon that meets the right conditions as if it were a one-handed weapon doesn't mean that you can choose that entire abstract category of weapons as if they appeared under the category of one-handed weapons. If Jotungrip said "Two-handed weapons are considered one-handed weapons," then Slashing Grace would work fine; but it's not a generic switch, it's a functional one.
Or to put it another way, it makes little sense to say "I'm actually literally wielding a greatsword as a one-handed weapon while I level up and select the Slashing Grace feat, so it's a one-handed weapon while I choose it."