Interest check: 32 page module, Arcanaless game with Guns everywhere


Recruitment


With my Crypt of the Everflame and Gallery of Evil coming to a close, I will be able to open up another module, though it won't be PFS rules. As soon as I finish those two, I will consider opening up another as well as continuing my Skull and Shackles game as 2 games per time is my limit. It will have the following.

1. No Arcana classes: This is true of both PCs and NPCs. Monsters in the module that show or use Arcana are replaced. Bards are fine, not counting them as Arcana. Traits and races that give arcana are limited. More on that later.
2. A 32 page or better Module of your choice, I own most of them. No I'm not doing Emerald Sphire, that is too long of a module, I'd do an AP if I was going to DM that.
3. Between common place and guns everywhere rules, with the exception that advanced firearms and ammo for them are 25% of the price as listed in the charts and cannot be crafted. Gunslingers start with one advanced Gun for free. Yes modern firearms exist too, but they are quadruple the price as listed in the charts, and ammo for these guns are quadruple the price, as they use different bullets, just take the price of a bullet from the original chart and multiple it by 4 to show you bought a modern bullet. Siege firearms and explosives don't exist yet.
4. Light Machine gun only, the heavy machine gun does not exist. Light Machine Gun only has a capacity of 30 right now. You can fire a burst of 3 bullets as an action, or all 30 bullets as a full round action. And you have to make an attack roll for each bullet fired, keep in mind this means you have 30 chances for a misfire, which means the gun could explode on you.
5. You start with 1,000 Gold to spend regardless of the Level of the module. You get an additional 11,000 Gold to spend on Wondrous items or rings or Guns of your choice if the modules is 1-7 levels. 8-14 and you get 22,000 to spend. 15+ and you get 33,000 to spend. Or you can instead have a/an Mithril/Adamantine armor of your choice that has resist 10 to all elements, resist 20 for levels 8-14 and resist 30 for level 15+
6. 25 point buy: Core races, Ogre and any featured/uncommon race that does not come from Genies or other planes. No animals, unless your backstory follows Darwins theory of evolution. If not sure ask. Stuff like Ifrits, Sulis, no, and catfolk maybe. I want to know how your catfolk/ratfolk, Grippli came to be about, and I want to hear a convincing evolution story as to how a certain species of frogs/cats/rats came to walk talk and act human, since the only magic that does exist in this is divine, "they were born from magic will cause me to have glaring issues." And then on top of that a story on "your character" in addition to your story as to how your specific species evolved. Stuff like Orcs, Duergar is allowed. Since Arcana does not exist, neither do Genies or supernatural creatures in this game. Tieflings and Assimars are allowed, since they come from Angels and Demons, but I would accept only 1 Tiefling or Assimar in this game as they are rare.
So post here if interested and what you'd like to play if this takes off


Interesting. Since the part of the firearms rules that I don't like is the muzzle loading weapons, this is right up my alley.

Would it be possible to get something on the order of a lever action rifle with actual magazine capacity? I generally read the advanced firearms rules to be circa old west, and magazine rifles were commonplace there.

Suppose I should suggest a module. I like at least reasonably high level, so how about Curse of the Riven Sky.


Something Cthulhu inspired would be fun counterpoint to commonplace guns.


JoshB wrote:
Something Cthulhu inspired would be fun counterpoint to commonplace guns.

I only own pathfinder modules. All 5th addition buyable adventures and a few super dungeons that aren't pathfinder or 5th addition. I don't anything Cthulhu inspired.

On the subject of rifles, they work as is, they have a capacity, and since they hold multiple bullets, I would assume they are like lever action rifles and not autorifles. Though when your bab hits 6/1 you can obviously fire twice in a round as if you fired, pulled lever to push up the next bullet and fired again.

Edit: Okay, I know what you mean, the 2-handed rifle under advanced fire arms only holds 1 bullet. All other rifles in advanced in modern firearms hold more than one. For purposes of reloading a rifle that holds 1 bullet, it is a swift action.


I don't have an issue with taking rapid reload to make that a free action (I assume that would be the case), but I do admit I like the imagery of the 1873 Winchester gunning down fantasy critters.


drbuzzard wrote:
I don't have an issue with taking rapid reload to make that a free action (I assume that would be the case), but I do admit I like the imagery of the 1873 Winchester gunning down fantasy critters.

Yep, rapid reload would make that a free action.


Doublegold said wrote:
I only own pathfinder modules. All 5th addition buyable adventures and a few super dungeons that aren't pathfinder or 5th addition. I don't anything Cthulhu inspired.

These are all Cthulhu mythos inspired:

Carrion Hill - "The Dunwich Horror", only on Golarion.
Crucible of Chaos - What's left behind when a flying citadel flown by Azathoth cultists crashes? Do you really want to find out?
From Shore to Sea - It's essentially a fantasy version of "Shadow Over Innsmouth".
Wake of the Watcher - This one also evokes "Shadow Over Innsmouth", but as part of the larger Carrion Crown AP.


Yeah, I own one or more of those, and getting more on the way.


I wouldn't put all these on 1 PC, just tumbling some ideas through my skull.

1) Would you count the bombs/poisons of an alchemist as 'arcane' or firearm-ish technology? Was considering the Explosive Missile discovery to make a grenade launcher or maybe the poison to be shooting poisoned darts.

2) Mantis or other Assassin allowed?

3) Which deity would you most associate with firearms and gunslingers?

4) Are guns required? Was considering being the one non-gun toting member (maybe brawler), for when things need to be kept quiet.

5) Any option for silencers (magic or otherwise)?

6) Would Changeling, Fetchlings, Dhampir, Samsarans, or Strix be considered too arcane? (Though I think I am actually leaning toward Hobgoblin.)

7) Is the 'no arcane' going to exclude magic items that have an arcane spell for the crafting of said item?

8) Is a domain that grants some normally arcane spells still allowable or modified?

9) I'm think of a way to make the double hackbut viable as a traveling weapon instead of an emplacement. Just seems amusing to me to wheel up a small cannon to the pistol duel.

10) Do the siege version of fire-arms exist in the world? I might add some secondary capability to operate these when available.

11) I'm assuming 'no arcane' would also prohibit Eldritch Heritage and Familiars. Let me know if I am incorrect.

Hmm... This is kinda intriguingly difficult. I'm surprised how many of my usual ideas have at least some arcane in them.


1. Alchemist is its own class and its own thing, that is not explosive technology or arcana. No you cannot make discoveries that paizo does not give.

2. Huh?

3. Chaotic and fire type deities.

4. No, but a few NPCs will have them too, so be warned.

5. Nope, not invented yet. Magic, well, if there is a divine spell of some sort that can do it, then well okay.

6. Changeling is okay they will be considered a subhuman race or have evolved from humans. Fetchlings are fine, but they lose there magical racial trais. They do come from Shadow plane, but from a portal. Dhampirs are undead and not magical and they can keep their detect undead ability. Samsarans are fine. Strix are okay, but every time you meet a human NPC and anytime a human NPC meets you, you will both have to roll will saving throws dc 10 to not attack each other.

7. Just no wands or rods is the only items you can't have. Everything else with arcana attached to it is fair game. You cannot craft this game.

8. Nope, no arcane domains.

9. Love to see that idea.

10. Nope, not even catapults or cannons.

11. Familiars are okay, I mean, Rangers get them. Eldritch Heritage is still arcane and a no.


I assume gobins are OK? Just making sure.

We also need to pick a module so we know the level.


DoubleGold wrote:

1. Alchemist is its own class and its own thing, that is not explosive technology or arcana. No you cannot make discoveries that paizo does not give.

2. Huh?

...

1) So you are ok with alchemist, good to know. Explosive Missiles is an existing discovery from Ultimate Combat. There are also several methods for putting poison on weapons/ammunition. I would just fluff it as injection darts.

Explosive Missile:
As a standard action, the alchemist can infuse a single arrow, crossbow bolt, or one-handed firearm bullet with the power of his bomb, load the ammunition, and shoot the ranged weapon. He must be proficient with the weapon in order to accomplish this. When the infused ammunition hits its target, it deals damage normally and detonates as if the alchemist had thrown the bomb at the target. If the explosive missile misses, it does not detonate. An alchemist must be at least 4th level before selecting this discovery.

2) I was asking about the Assassin or Mantis Assassin PrC's. But not sure I'm really interested in that any more.

9) Seems like something an Ogre might want to lug around. But pretty expensive, so I would probably only consider if we were playing a high level module.
.
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Also, any of you other players interested in making a pair that has worked together historically with things like teamwork feats and similar/intertwined backstory?


As for DTE for catfolk, here's how it goes: You have a species of cat, arranged into tribal units. Each unit has an alpha, who's the only one who gets to mate. Traditionally, you get to be the alpha by winning over the last alpha in a dominance contest. This breeds badass cats, with the ability to hit hard, and take a lot of punishment, even though that's not really neccesary for hunting rabbits. That bit breeds sprinting speed and jumping ability, although that's not really neccesary for winning dominance contests.

Anyway, one day, two slightly smarter than average cats, smarter purely by chance of genetics, make a ploy - one of them distracts the alpha, while the other one grabs the first share of the prey, thus displaying dominant traits to the rest of the pack. They continue to do stuff like this, setting the second cat up for alphaness, distracting the original alpha each time it tries to assert itself via dominance contest. Eventually, the cats accept that the second cat is the new alpha, and the original alpha skulks off. Then, after a period of time, the first cat, who was the new alphas supporter, and happens to be both slightly smarter and slightly bigger than the second alpha, kills it off, gaining alpha-ness and mating rights.

This goes on for a while. Each generation, the alpha cats get a little more cunning, a little smarter, in order to beat out the other cats in the dominance contests - and the smart ones breed, while the losers, the stupid ones, are genetic dead ends. Since they are smarter, they make better choices when hunting, and can get away with less muscle mass when chasing rabbits.

Eventually, they get smart enough as a race that one of them figures out how to create and use tools, as a side benefit to their political arms race of intellect. But the arms race continues. At some point they evolve language, with all the bells and whistles.

Side-along to the intelligence process, they also get dumped in forest terrain, where prey has an irritating tendency to climb up in trees and run away. The cats that are bad climbers die off. This leads to opposable thumbs, after a few million years.

Edit: Whoo, strix! I think I'll make a strix gunslinger.


Goblins are allowed and are not things of arcana or animals.
I like the cat evolution thing, although that makes them sound like hostile species now.
And those are some badass alchemists, yeah, use missiles.

Edit: It has been brought up to my attention that Cats are not social animals, so that would not work so well. Interesting idea, but it doesn't fit the idea of what a cat is.


Why would they be hostile?


If they kill off each other for mates, then what else and whatever else do they kill for?


The fact that felines in general are solo hunters and not social animals, rather puts a crimp in the theory.


I'm trying to remember my discovery channel hours...
Wasn't there a breed of big cat that does hunt in small cooperative groups? Seems like there was, but I can't remember for sure.

But then, most of the evolution theories don't really work in the details anyhow.


I guess I did forget lions and their prides, but those only have one male and his 'harem' of females. It's basically just a big family.


I'm thinking that an ogre big game hunter, built as either a Ranger(Trophy Hunter) or Gunslinger(Musket Master) would be cool.

I'm imagining an ogre with a massive double-barreled musket (elephant gun) that tracks down big monsters.

He'll lead off with a couple rounds of lead and then if that doesn't work he'll beat them to death with a club.


Hmm... A double hackbut just fits into a glove of storing.

I'm kinda leaning toward a hobgoblin gunslinger with a glove of storing to transport his double hackbut. He would have maybe a hand crossbow on his hip just to throw people off. Then if a fight breaks out, he's suddenly crouching behind a miniature cannon.


okay, guns are simple weapons in this, ranger trophy hunter archetype isn't necessary. You can just be an ordinary ranger with gun. And musket master would be more like rifle master, since early guns are like extinct in this time period.


Hmm... I can't use Explosive Missiles with a Hackbut. It only works with a one handed firearm. But it's still a damn big gun.

DoubleGold wrote:

..

7. Just no wands or rods is the only items you can't have. Everything else with arcana attached to it is fair game. You cannot craft this game.
...

We could still pay someone to make a wand or if it uses divine spells right?


I'm contemplating a goblin rifle (musket) master. Either that or a gun tank. Will need to decide on a race for the latter.


oh, right, divine wands and rods are okay, I forgot they can also use divine magic as well. I'm trying to make Arcana non-existent in this game. If a spell is both divine and arcana in nature, it still exists because clerics/druids/rangers can cast it. If a spell also appears on a bard list, it counts as divine even though bards pull from both arcane and divine.


Double Hackbuts are still useful enough that they might be around for hunting elephants and other really big game - their damage dice are unmatched by modern weaponry.


Need some details on the equipment.

Sounds like we get 1k base + number set up module level.

Say we go with the module I picked, then it would be 22K. However there is an offer present to also take a suit of armor of your choice of construction material and a lot of resistances. What bonus would that amor have? That is a rather expensive bit of kit you realize right?


DoubleGold said wrote:
okay, guns are simple weapons in this, ranger trophy hunter archetype isn't necessary. You can just be an ordinary ranger with gun. And musket master would be more like rifle master, since early guns are like extinct in this time period.

The gunslinger deeds in place of feats are probably not a good trade for the trophy hunter, even if the fluff is pretty cool.


drbuzzard wrote:

Need some details on the equipment.

Sounds like we get 1k base + number set up module level.

Say we go with the module I picked, then it would be 22K. However there is an offer present to also take a suit of armor of your choice of construction material and a lot of resistances. What bonus would that amor have? That is a rather expensive bit of kit you realize right?

It would be a +1/+2/+3 Mithril/Adamantine armor with the resistances. And yes I know that is expensive, but that means that you have no other magical items except for that of which you can buy with your 1 K gold. So 22 K worth of wonderous items/ring/Guns and ammo or your +2 Hellknight Mithril Armor with 20 resist to all elements. Choose wisely. Magical weapons are not allowed, Masterwork weapons/basic mithril weapons and adamantine weapons are okay as they will come out of your 22 K. And really since arcana and magical weapons don't exist, how useful will your +2 Hellknight Mithril armor with 20 resist to all elements be? You'll be protected against stuff like vials of acid and flamethrowers.

Reason I made the interest check first, I knew there'd be a lot of questions and quirks with it that I'll have to work out before posting the final rules. Recruitment thread will be open as soon as I complete both of my modules.


Hmm... I must have missed that there would be no magic weapons. I was planning on a couple of specific weapon enhancements, if it ended up as a high level game. That will change plans a bit. Good to know.

That does tend to make a paladin or war priest that can enhance their own weapon much more powerful. Or a cleric that can cast the weapon enhancement spells much more useful to have along.


Although I'll be changing the gold rules in case you are planning now. It will be 1,000 basic gold. And instead of an armor or another thing of gold to spend on items, you get 7,000 gold to spend every 3 levels, increasing on the 4th level. so 1-3 is 7,000, while 4-6 is 14,000, while, 7-9 is 21,000, etc. This can be spent on any magical items, or guns that you want. Except magical weapons, rods, staffs, wands and scrolls that produce arcana spells. Spells that are arcana and divine are divine. Wonderous items that give you a feather fall spell or produce other arcana spells are fine, as they are Wonderous items. As are rings, any ring is fair game. You get to keep any leftover basic gold you have not spent, you do not get to keep any of the magical gold you have not spent, so use up as much as possible. It as if your character owned these things instead of bought them. As I will be doing 2 or more scenarios using the Cthulu thing. Not to mention, there might be times where you can rest or go to town between missions.


Expressing interest!

Don't care what module we do... Though I feel like Mummy's mask would make for a good Indiana Jones-esque game.

I'll be trying to get a character up in the next couple of days.


Module, not dedicating myself to another AP, besides I just got done with Mummy's Mask on the DMing side.

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