Personal spells on animal companion


Rules Questions


One of my players is playing a cleric with animal domain, so he has a companion (with boon companion, his buddy is the same lvl as a druid companion), and he hasnt done it yet... but Im sure he will, so I´m asking in advance... can he cast Divine Favor, Rightious Might and other personal spells to his companion ?


Yes, Share Spells is one of the components of the Animal Companion ability which a cleric with the Animal Domain gets.

The Concordance

Yup. There are two different clauses to keep in mind.

Share Spells wrote:
#1 The druid may cast a spell with a target of “You” on her animal companion (as a spell with a range of touch) instead of on herself. #2 A druid may cast spells on her animal companion even if the spells normally do not affect creatures of the companion's type (animal).

Divine Favor will be a popular one, and it legally falls under the scope of the first clause (spell with a target of "you").

If the Cleric has access to a Domain that grants Enlarge Person, that would legally fall under the scope of the second clause (spell that normally only affects humanoids).


Divine Favor on an animal companion is pretty good, but Righteous Might is better. :D


Thanks everyone... I was unsure, as personal spells cant be made into potions for balance issues (no 2handed weapons fighters or barbarians with potions of shield, or potions of Righteous might)

I thought that maybe was the same in this case, as I find that with this buffs his animal companion will be better than a animal companion druid with Giant growth and Atavism


This kind of stuff is also part of what makes Eidolons so awesome. Did you know you can cast contingency on your companion?


What about spells like Frostbite--can I cast Frostbite on my AC so she can deliver the charges with her natural attacks?


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mbauers wrote:
What about spells like Frostbite--can I cast Frostbite on my AC so she can deliver the charges with her natural attacks?

No, that is the "Deliver Touch Spells" ability of a wizard's familiar. A druid's animal companion does not get that by default.


Sithis of Fangwood wrote:
#2[/b] A druid may cast spells on her animal companion even if the spells normally do not affect creatures of the companion's type (animal).

This has some odd unintended side effects though. Like you can target your companion with spells never meant for either of you, such as spells intended for constructs, like Rapid Repair.

The Concordance

Yup.

And Paragon Surge.

Liberty's Edge

Sithis of Fangwood wrote:

Yup.

And Paragon Surge.

Paragon surge don't check the creature type, it check the creature Sub-type, and the share spell ability don't give exemptions for that.

The Concordance

There are two problems with that logic.

First, Paragon Surge doesn't specify subtype anywhere. The range is "Personal (half-elf only)". Half-elf is not a subtype. Elf and Human are subtypes of Humanoid.

Second, look again at clause #2 above. Paragon Surge normally does not affect creatures of the animal type. Therefore, it qualifies for Share Spells.

Of course, if this is for PFS, the Druid would still have to be an actual Half-elf to have access to the spell in the first place, so it's not like it's available to any Druid out there.


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You think Paragon Surge is strange on an animal companion? Try half-blood extraction.

It's a good thing it's not PFS legal, because I'd pity any PFS GM whose player tried to do that.

Liberty's Edge

Sithis of Fangwood wrote:

There are two problems with that logic.

First, Paragon Surge doesn't specify subtype anywhere. The range is "Personal (half-elf only)". Half-elf is not a subtype. Elf and Human are subtypes of Humanoid.

Second, look again at clause #2 above. Paragon Surge normally does not affect creatures of the animal type. Therefore, it qualifies for Share Spells.

Of course, if this is for PFS, the Druid would still have to be an actual Half-elf to have access to the spell in the first place, so it's not like it's available to any Druid out there.

1) half-elf is part of the elf and humans subtypes.

PRD wrote:

Elf Subtype: This subtype is applied to elves and creatures related to elves. Creatures with the elf subtype have low-light vision.

Human Subtype: This subtype is applied to humans and creatures related to humans.

They are part of the "creatures related to elves" and the "creatures related to humans" groups.

2)

PRD wrote:

Share Spells (Ex): The druid may cast a spell with a target of “You” on her animal companion (as a spell with a range of touch) instead of on herself. A druid may cast spells on her animal companion even if the spells normally do not affect creatures of the companion's type (animal). Spells cast in this way must come from a class that grants an animal companion. This ability does not allow the animal to share abilities that are not spells, even if they function like spells.[/quot]

Step by step:
a) [quote)PRD]Paragon Surge
Range personal (half-elf only)

It has no target of you, but I agree that a range of personal is the same thing.

So "range Personal is covered.

b) There is a further requirement: (half-elf only).
Half elf is a subtype, the type is humanoid.

What say the Animal bond ability:
"even if the spells normally do not affect creatures of the companion's type (animal)"

So it allow you to bypass the creature type limitation, but this spell hasn't a limitation based on the creature, it has a limitation based on the sub-type, and you don't get any special exemption from that.
You are simply unable to affect someone that hasn't the appropriate subtype.

You want to stick to "half-elves aren't a subtype?
Even better. You only get the permission to waive the target you and type limitations. Not other limitations. If half elf isn't a subtype not a type, it is a limitation that you can't waive.

Think it as a credit card.
Your have a credit card that say "This CC work with all the credit card circuits of the world".
Then some CC company say "Gold CC and above get get a discount when they reserve a flight".
The ability of your CC to being used with any circuit don't do anything for that. You still need a gold CC to get the special feature.

Avoron wrote:

You think Paragon Surge is strange on an animal companion? Try half-blood extraction.

It's a good thing it's not PFS legal, because I'd pity any PFS GM whose player tried to do that.

PRD20 wrote:


Half-Blood Extraction
Casting Time 1 hour
Components V, S, M/DF (oils and poisons worth 3,000 gp)
EFFECT
Range touch
Target willing half-orc touched
Duration instantaneous
Saving Throw none; Spell Resistance no

1) "The druid may cast a spell with a target of “You” on her animal companion"

vs
Target willing half-orc touched

I don't see a target of you here, so it already fail the check there.

2) Same objections as above, no permission to bypass the half-orc requirement.


1.
The druid may cast a spell with a target of “You” on her animal companion (as a spell with a range of touch) instead of on herself. A druid may cast spells on her animal companion even if the spells normally do not affect creatures of the companion's type (animal).

These are two different sentences, neither dependent on the other. The first sentence allows the druid to do one thing (cast spells with a target of "You" on her animal companion). The second sentence allows the druid to do another thing (cast spells on her animal companion even if the spells normally do not affect creatures of the companion's type). A spell doesn't need to fall under both categories in order be cast.

2.
"even if the spells normally do not affect creatures of the companion's type (animal)"
There's a very simple test. Does it normally affect creatures of the companion's type? No, it does not affect animals, only half-orcs. Therefore, you can cast it on the animal as if it could be cast on creatures of the animal type.

Sczarni

Indeed.

Can Paragon Surge normally be cast on animals? No? Then it qualifies for Share Spells.

Liberty's Edge

Guys, it continue to give you a specific permission: "even if the spells normally do not affect creatures of the companion's type (animal)".
If you have a requirement that isn't based on the type you haven't the permission to cast that spell.
The permission don't cover other requirements.

Avoron: "The druid may cast a spell with a target of “You” on her animal companion (as a spell with a range of touch)"
Paragon Surge
Range personal (half-elf only)
no target.

By RAW you don't get the permission to cast personal range spells at a range of touch, you get the permission only for spells with a target line of you.

The ability very clearly use target in with a target of “You” as a game term, if the Devs meant "every spell that target you" they would have used something like [i]a spell that can target you[/b].


Diego Rossi, the Devs appear to have incorrectly left off the target/area/effect line in that spell.

Go through the CRB and look at ANY "Range Personal" spell in the book. ALL but one has a target line and the one that doesn't has an area line instead.
Most of the Range Personal spells have a target of you.
A few with a target line have something else.
A few others have an area line (centered on you).
A few others in other books have an effect line instead.

It looks like it was accidentally left off, wouldn't be the first time they made such a mistake.

Based on every other personal spell that has a target of you (and based on how it is not like the ones that do not) Paragon Surge clearly should have a target of you.

Summary: That Paragon Surge does not a Target/Area/Effect line appears to be an error and based on its similarities to Personal spells with a Target of You (and dissimilarities to Personal spells that have something else) it should have a Target of You.

Regarding "type vs subtype", you are splitting hairs there at best.

Bestiary p306 wrote:
Each creature has one type, which broadly defines its abilities. Some creatures also have one or more subtypes, as described on pages 310–314. A creature cannot violate the rules of its subtype without a special ability or quality to explain the difference—templates can often change a creature’s type drastically.

Creature subtypes are part of the creature type rules. They are not a separate thing. A spell with a subtype restriction can be cast on the animal companion as per the creature type bypass rule.


Diego: I wasn't referring to Paragon Surge. I was responding to your point 1 relating to half-blood extraction, by explaining that the Share Spells feature allows the druid to do two completely separate things.

Firstly, "The druid may cast a spell with a target of “You” on her animal companion (as a spell with a range of touch) instead of on herself." That doesn't apply to half-blood extraction, but it doesn't need to, because it already has a range of touch.

Secondly, "A druid may cast spells on her animal companion even if the spells normally do not affect creatures of the companion's type (animal)." This part doesn't only apply to spells with a target of "You," and this is the only part that needs to apply to half-blood extraction in order to cast it on an animal companion.

So the target of half-blood extraction isn't an issue. The only issue is this check:

Does the spell normally affect creatures of the companion's type (animal)?

If yes: no change.
If no: the spell can affect the animal companion as if it affected creatures of the animal type in addition to the creatures it can normally affect

So, are you disputing that this is the check that is being made, are you disputing what the answer to the question is, or are you disputing that the listed affects of a "no" answer allow the spell to be cast on the animal companion?

Liberty's Edge

For Half-Blood Extraction the check isn't "what type is affected by the spell" against animal bond.
The check, in the spell is: "Target willing half-orc touched". animal bond change the target line of you into a target line of touch.
And change the type that you can affect to animal.
It don't change the subtype that you can affect.

If you have a spell that affect Humanoids with the aquatic subtype animal bond change it to affect animals with the aquatic subtype.

It don't change any other requirement beside the type.


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Diego, subtype IS a type. I showed that earlier. Subtype is part of the type rules.

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