Can a caster who dips a single level of Wizard and chooses to bond with an item improve the bonded item once he qualifies for the relevant feat? e.g. can a Magus 5 / Wizard 1 start improving his bonded rapier?
Also, does the requirement for the wizard to have his bonded item to cast spells without making a concentration check apply to all casting, or just to wizard casting?
Yes, you can improve once you meet the pre-reqs and no, you must make a concentration check for any spellcasting. The language isn't restrictive in either case. Precendent comes from this FAQ that provides the following general rule:
"General rule: If a class ability modifies your spellcasting, it applies to your spells from all classes, not just spells from the class that grants the ability. (The exception is if the class ability specifically says it only applies to spells from that class."
That was the FAQ I had in mind when I started thinking that the wizard dip might make the bonded item restrictions apply to my magus spellcasting, but I couldn't remember what book it was from. (The FAQ would be so much more useful on a single page.) Even with the restriction, I think that I like the idea of being able to improve my sabre (actually a rapier, but only in the same way that Cayden Cailean's sabre is called a rapier) enough to live with it. And the main reason for the dip is to get the hand of the apprentice ability; the bonded weapon is just a happy side effect.
I considered bladebound, but the GM for my upcoming campaign wants us to make characters with only a single archetype, and kensai is more important. Which means that Soul Forger is out as well (although I will admit I didn't realize that there were any Magus archetypes that included an arcane bond.)
On a related note, If you have a bonded item without a caster level via a dip or eldritch heritage, can you take master craftsman to meet the CL requirement for you to be able to enchant your arcane bond item?
From my reading that should be fine. The wizard rules text only requires you to be high enough caster level to be able to take the feat (which master craftsman provides).
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[quoter)PRD]Arcane Bond (Ex or Sp): At 1st level, wizards form a powerful bond with an object or a creature. This bond can take one of two forms: a familiar or a bonded object. A familiar is a magical pet that enhances the wizard's skills and senses and can aid him in magic, while a bonded object is an item a wizard can use to cast additional spells or to serve as a magical item. Once a wizard makes this choice, it is permanent and cannot be changed. Rules for bonded items are given below, while rules for familiars are at the end of this section.
Wizards who select a bonded object begin play with one at no cost. Objects that are the subject of an arcane bond must fall into one of the following categories: amulet, ring, staff, wand, or weapon. These objects are always masterwork quality. Weapons acquired at 1st level are not made of any special material. If the object is an amulet or ring, it must be worn to have effect, while staves, wands, and weapons must be held in one hand. If a wizard attempts to cast a spell without his bonded object worn or in hand, he must make a concentration check or lose the spell. The DC for this check is equal to 20 + the spell's level. If the object is a ring or amulet, it occupies the ring or neck slot accordingly.
A bonded object can be used once per day to cast any one spell that the wizard has in his spellbook and is capable of casting, even if the spell is not prepared. This spell is treated like any other spell cast by the wizard, including casting time, duration, and other effects dependent on the wizard's level. This spell cannot be modified by metamagic feats or other abilities. The bonded object cannot be used to cast spells from the wizard's opposition schools (see arcane school).
A wizard can add additional magic abilities to his bonded object as if he has the required item creation feats and if he meets the level prerequisites of the feat. For example, a wizard with a bonded dagger must be at least 5th level to add magic abilities to the dagger (see the Craft Magic Arms and Armor feat in Feats). If the bonded object is a wand, it loses its wand abilities when its last charge is consumed, but it is not destroyed and it retains all of its bonded object properties and can be used to craft a new wand. The magic properties of a bonded object, including any magic abilities added to the object, only function for the wizard who owns it. If a bonded object's owner dies, or the item is replaced, the object reverts to being an ordinary masterwork item of the appropriate type.
If a bonded object is damaged, it is restored to full hit points the next time the wizard prepares his spells. If the object of an arcane bond is lost or destroyed, it can be replaced after 1 week in a special ritual that costs 200 gp per wizard level plus the cost of the masterwork item. This ritual takes 8 hours to complete. Items replaced in this way do not possess any of the additional enchantments of the previous bonded item. A wizard can designate an existing magic item as his bonded item. This functions in the same way as replacing a lost or destroyed item except that the new magic item retains its abilities while gaining the benefits and drawbacks of becoming a bonded item.
All the bonus and limitations refer the wizard class. It don't change your spellcasting abilities, it change how your wizard class work.
So:
- only your wizard levels (or class levels that stack with your wizard levels, like some prestige class levels) count for your ability to enchant the bond;
- only your wizard spells require you to use the bonded item to cast them without a concentration check.
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That was the FAQ I had in mind when I started thinking that the wizard dip might make the bonded item restrictions apply to my magus spellcasting, but I couldn't remember what book it was from. (The FAQ would be so much more useful on a single page.) Even with the restriction, I think that I like the idea of being able to improve my sabre (actually a rapier, but only in the same way that Cayden Cailean's sabre is called a rapier) enough to live with it. And the main reason for the dip is to get the hand of the apprentice ability; the bonded weapon is just a happy side effect.
I considered bladebound, but the GM for my upcoming campaign wants us to make characters with only a single archetype, and kensai is more important. Which means that Soul Forger is out as well (although I will admit I didn't realize that there were any Magus archetypes that included an arcane bond.)
CRB.
Sorcerer: Do the bonuses granted from Bloodline Arcana apply to all of the spells cast by the sorcerer, or just those cast from the sorcerer's spell list?The Bloodline Arcana powers apply to all of the spells cast by characters of that bloodline, not just those cast using the sorcerer's spell slots.
General rule: If a class ability modifies your spellcasting, it applies to your spells from all classes, not just spells from the class that grants the ability. (The exception is if the class ability specifically says it only applies to spells from that class.)
posted October 2010 | back to top
Note the difference:
Bloodline Arcana: Whenever you apply a metamagic feat to a spell that increases the slot used by at least one level, increase the spell's DC by +1. This bonus does not stack with itself and does not apply to spells modified by the Heighten Spell feat.
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If a wizard attempts to cast a spell without his bonded object worn or in hand, he must make a concentration check or lose the spell.
Hmm, i was thinking more about
A magus is proficient with all simple and martial weapons. A magus is also proficient with light armor. He can cast magus spells while wearing light armor without incurring the normal arcane spell failure chance. Like any other arcane spellcaster, a magus wearing medium armor, heavy armor, or a shield incurs a chance of arcane spell failure if the spell in question has a somatic component. A multiclass magus still incurs the normal arcane spell failure chance for arcane spells received from other classes.
as an example of ability that states it applies only to spells from that class.
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a rapier? did you get suckered in with all that talk of how awesome crits are? uh-huh, me too.
let's say your weapon is keen 15-20 is a crit. that is good odds, 25% chance. however this requires a confirmation roll... so your chance is technically halved.
rather than a rapier, why not an "Aldori dueling blade"?
The slow way to do it that doesn't suck: Half elf.
use the optional racial trait Ancestral Arms from the races book; you loose the skill focus feat, but hey...
You have an Exotic weapon proficiency!
Having an X-W Prof: Dueling blade,
"A dueling sword may be used as a Martial Weapon (in which case it functions as a longsword), but if you have the feat Exotic Weapon Proficiency (dueling sword), you can use the Weapon Finesse feat to apply your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier on attack rolls with a dueling sword sized for you, even though it isn't a light weapon. You can also wield a dueling sword in two hands in order to apply 1-1/2 times your Strength bonus to damage."
but to really flesh out this feat tree you will need:
Exotic Weapon Proficiency (dueling sword) - racial!
Weapon Finesse, 1st level.
Weapon Focus (dueling sword), 3rd level.
Quick Draw - 5th level.
And the cherry on the top, is also 5th level thanks to the magus bonus feat:
"DUELING MASTERY
Benefit: You gain a +2 bonus on Initiative checks as long as you start combat with a dueling sword in your hand. As long as you wield only a single dueling sword in one hand, you gain a +2 shield bonus to your AC—if you wield the sword in two hands, this bonus drops to a +1 shield bonus to AC.
Although the dueling sword inflicts slashing damage, you treat it as if it were also a piercing weapon when determining the effects of weapons used by a duelist.
Sword, dueling 20 gp 1d8 19-20/×2 — 3 lbs S — ISWG"
now the fast, but suck way: Half-elf Magus, Kensai Archetype.
You lose your light armor prof, and ability to ignore spell failure.
You also loose any additional armor proficiencies gained from advancing levels.
perhaps the worst of all, you lose one spellcast of each spell level.
if this lowers the normal number of spells for that spell level to 0, you only get to cast that spell level if you intelligence is high enough to provide a bonus spell for that slot.
what do you gain?
well, there is other stuff but the most important is
Kensai bonus feats 1st level: X-weapon prof, weapon focus.
Your 1st level feat: Weapon finesse.
ahh, now you don't need "Ancestral arms" you can keep your skill focus feat. Let us apply that Racial skill focus to Knowledge arcana, and toss on a skill rank to boot!
3rd level feat: grab up eldritch heritage (Arcane bloodline) and you get a bonded item. Make it your Dueling sword! with a bonded item you effectively get one daily spell back, as it is cast by your sword.
5th level feat: Quickdraw
Bonus 5th level feat: Dueling mastery.
There are a number of really cool "Extras" that come with this combo, but the trade off's are Harsh!
No armor, means no enchanted armor, and that means you max out your AC options with Mage armor, your dex, and the shield bonus provided by your feats.
Still, it is quite cool.
take the spell, "Weapon wand" and you can use a wand and your weapon pretty much at the same go. Get a wand of true strike and NEVER MISS, EVER AGAIN!
Or a wand of mage armor and never "be caught with your (Mage-armor) pants down"...
I had hope that the "eldritch scion" would have had access to a sorcerous bloodline, alas it does not. it has access to a few Blood-rager bloodlines. So, this Magus archetype doesn't let you get a bonded item.
a rapier? did you get suckered in with all that talk of how awesome crits are?
No, I just want dex-to-damage with a weapon that I reasonably call a sabre. Rapier works better than a scimitar because I can get dex-to-damage online at first level. Also because these look more like these than they do like these.
uh-huh, me too.
let's say your weapon is keen 15-20 is a crit. that is good odds, 25% chance. however this requires a confirmation roll... so your chance is technically halved.
30%. And Kensai have huge bonuses to their confirmation rolls.
rather than a rapier, why not an "Aldori dueling blade"?
Because then I have to rewrite my backstory to justify aldori duelling, and then I also have to accept never ever finding my preferred weapon as random treasure.
The slow way to do it that doesn't suck: Half elf.
use the optional racial trait Ancestral Arms from the races book; you loose the skill focus feat, but hey...You have an Exotic weapon proficiency!
A Kensai can just choose ADS for their chosen weapon; EWP isn't a concern for them.
Having an X-W Prof: Dueling blade,
"A dueling sword may be used as a Martial Weapon (in which case it functions as a longsword), but if you have the feat Exotic Weapon Proficiency (dueling sword), you can use the Weapon Finesse feat to apply your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier on attack rolls with a dueling sword sized for you, even though it isn't a light weapon. You can also wield a dueling sword in two hands in order to apply 1-1/2 times your Strength bonus to damage."but to really flesh out this feat tree you will need:
Exotic Weapon Proficiency (dueling sword) - racial!
Weapon Finesse, 1st level.
Weapon Focus (dueling sword), 3rd level.
Quick Draw - 5th level.And the cherry on the top, is also 5th level thanks to the magus bonus feat:
"DUELING MASTERY
Benefit: You gain a +2 bonus on Initiative checks as long as you start combat with a dueling sword in your hand. As long as you wield only a single dueling sword in one hand, you gain a +2 shield bonus to your AC—if you wield the sword in two hands, this bonus drops to a +1 shield bonus to AC.
Although the dueling sword inflicts slashing damage, you treat it as if it were also a piercing weapon when determining the effects of weapons used by a duelist.
Sword, dueling 20 gp 1d8 19-20/×2 — 3 lbs S — ISWG"now the fast, but suck way: Half-elf Magus, Kensai Archetype.
You lose your light armor prof, and ability to ignore spell failure.
You also loose any additional armor proficiencies gained from advancing levels.
perhaps the worst of all, you lose one spellcast of each spell level.
if this lowers the normal number of spells for that spell level to 0, you only get to cast that spell level if you intelligence is high enough to provide a bonus spell for that slot.
A dex-focused Kensai will have a better AC than a regular Magus. And since I'm trying to build a jedi-themed character, the unarmoured Kensai makes sense thematically as well. The reduced casting hurts, but the point is to make an awesome magical sword fighter, not a wizard with a sword, so I'm fine with that.
what do you gain?
well, there is other stuff but the most important is
Kensai bonus feats 1st level: X-weapon prof, weapon focus.Your 1st level feat: Weapon finesse.
ahh, now you don't need "Ancestral arms" you can keep your skill focus feat. Let us apply that Racial skill focus to Knowledge arcana, and toss on a skill rank to boot!
Or be a human and take Slashing Grace at level one to get full use of a high dex score. But in any case, if I was going to go with an exotic weapon that I'll never come across in enemy hands, I'd go with a Rhoka and keep my 18-20 crit range.
3rd level feat: grab up eldritch heritage (Arcane bloodline) and you get a bonded item. Make it your Dueling sword! with a bonded item you effectively get one daily spell back, as it is cast by your sword.
5th level feat: Quickdraw
Bonus 5th level feat: Dueling mastery.There are a number of really cool "Extras" that come with this combo, but the trade off's are Harsh!
No armor, means no enchanted armor, and that means you max out your AC options with Mage armor, your dex, and the shield bonus provided by your feats.
Still, it is quite cool.
take the spell, "Weapon wand" and you can use a wand and your weapon pretty much at the same go. Get a wand of true strike and NEVER MISS, EVER AGAIN!
Or a wand of mage armor and never "be caught with your (Mage-armor) pants down"...I had hope that the "eldritch scion" would have had access to a sorcerous bloodline, alas it does not. it has access to a few Blood-rager bloodlines. So, this Magus archetype doesn't let you get a bonded item.
Like I said before, the arcane bond wasn't the main focus of the wizard dip - it's the hand of the apprentice that I'm really after. If I could get a wizard equivalent of Believer's Boon, I'd happily forgo the dip and take the feat instead.
a rapier? did you get suckered in with all that talk of how awesome crits are? uh-huh, me too.
let's say your weapon is keen 15-20 is a crit. that is good odds, 25% chance. however this requires a confirmation roll... so your chance is technically halved.
rather than a rapier, why not an "Aldori dueling blade"?
The slow way to do it that doesn't suck: Half elf.
use the optional racial trait Ancestral Arms from the races book; you loose the skill focus feat, but hey...You have an Exotic weapon proficiency!
Having an X-W Prof: Dueling blade,
"A dueling sword may be used as a Martial Weapon (in which case it functions as a longsword), but if you have the feat Exotic Weapon Proficiency (dueling sword), you can use the Weapon Finesse feat to apply your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier on attack rolls with a dueling sword sized for you, even though it isn't a light weapon. You can also wield a dueling sword in two hands in order to apply 1-1/2 times your Strength bonus to damage."but to really flesh out this feat tree you will need:
Exotic Weapon Proficiency (dueling sword) - racial!
Weapon Finesse, 1st level.
Weapon Focus (dueling sword), 3rd level.
Quick Draw - 5th level.And the cherry on the top, is also 5th level thanks to the magus bonus feat:
"DUELING MASTERY
Benefit: You gain a +2 bonus on Initiative checks as long as you start combat with a dueling sword in your hand. As long as you wield only a single dueling sword in one hand, you gain a +2 shield bonus to your AC—if you wield the sword in two hands, this bonus drops to a +1 shield bonus to AC.
Although the dueling sword inflicts slashing damage, you treat it as if it were also a piercing weapon when determining the effects of weapons used by a duelist.
Sword, dueling 20 gp 1d8 19-20/×2 — 3 lbs S — ISWG"now the fast, but suck way: Half-elf Magus, Kensai Archetype.
You lose your light armor prof, and ability to ignore spell failure.
You also loose any additional armor proficiencies gained from...
This is a very long post mostly Filled with what i would classify as advice of doubtfull qualify. I assume it is mostly because new stuff came out that Chad havent seen yet.
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CRB.
Sorcerer: Do the bonuses granted from Bloodline Arcana apply to all of the spells cast by the sorcerer, or just those cast from the sorcerer's spell list?The Bloodline Arcana powers apply to all of the spells cast by characters of that bloodline, not just those cast using the sorcerer's spell slots.
General rule: If a class ability modifies your spellcasting, it applies to your spells from all classes, not just spells from the class that grants the ability. (The exception is if the class ability specifically says it only applies to spells from that class.)
posted October 2010 | back to topNote the difference:
Bloodline Arcana: Whenever you apply a metamagic feat to a spell that increases the slot used by at least one level, increase the spell's DC by +1. This bonus does not stack with itself and does not apply to spells modified by the Heighten Spell feat.Vs
If a wizard attempts to cast a spell without his bonded object worn or in hand, he must make a concentration check or lose the spell.
There's absolutely no difference. Nowhere does that class ability state it is applying only to spells of that class.
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Like I said before, the arcane bond wasn't the main focus of the wizard dip - it's the hand of the apprentice that I'm really after. If I could get a wizard equivalent of Believer's Boon, I'd happily forgo the dip and take the feat instead.
Well, you could take Believer's Boon with the Magic domain for Hand of the Acolyte instead of Hand of the Apprentice. It's wisdom based instead of Int Based, but it's the exact same ability otherwise.
Also, how are you planing on approximating the lightsaber? Brilliant Energy doesn't really work.
Hand of the Acolyte was for a long time what I was planning on before I remembered that Hand of the Apprentice even existed. But the wisdom instead of intelligence base hurts quite a lot. The lower times per day hurts, but not nearly as much as the Wisdom to hit instead of Int to hit. If I go that way, I'll never hit anything with it.
Unless I can somehow score something from Iron Gods, I'll just be handwaving the actual blade of pure energy bit. Elemental damage to make it glowy. Maybe an adamantine blade to let it cut through steel more easily.
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There's absolutely no difference. Nowhere does that class ability state it is applying only to spells of that class.CRB.
Sorcerer: Do the bonuses granted from Bloodline Arcana apply to all of the spells cast by the sorcerer, or just those cast from the sorcerer's spell list?The Bloodline Arcana powers apply to all of the spells cast by characters of that bloodline, not just those cast using the sorcerer's spell slots.
General rule: If a class ability modifies your spellcasting, it applies to your spells from all classes, not just spells from the class that grants the ability. (The exception is if the class ability specifically says it only applies to spells from that class.)
posted October 2010 | back to topNote the difference:
Bloodline Arcana: Whenever you apply a metamagic feat to a spell that increases the slot used by at least one level, increase the spell's DC by +1. This bonus does not stack with itself and does not apply to spells modified by the Heighten Spell feat.Vs
If a wizard attempts to cast a spell without his bonded object worn or in hand, he must make a concentration check or lose the spell.
Missed the bolded part?
Missed the bolded part?
It is irrelevant, because any character with wizard levels is a wizard. It does not specify " it only applies to spells from that class".
Compare to bard:
A bard can cast bard spells while wearing light armor and using a shield without incurring the normal arcane spell failure chance.
If it was enough to mention the bard, it wouldn't have had to specify "bard spells". If the bonded object worked the same way, it would say:
If a wizard attempts to cast a wizard spell without his bonded object worn or in hand, he must make a concentration check or lose the spell.
But it doesn't, hence it applies to all spells they cast.
These are from the very same book, so we should assume it's not a writing style difference.|
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Missed the bolded part?It is irrelevant, because any character with wizard levels is a wizard. It does not specify " it only applies to spells from that class".
Yes, but not all characters with a bonded item is a wizard. In fact, via eldritch heritage, it's possible to have a bonded item without caster levels at all.
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because new stuff came out that Chad havent seen yet.
uhm, yeah...
"Hand of the apprentice" is a universalist wizard ability, and something tells me that "Now" there is much more to it than shows in the core rulebook.
is there another source I am missing? some new wizard combo: feat, item, or spell?
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General rule: If a class ability modifies your spellcasting, it applies to your spells from all classes, not just spells from the class that grants the ability. (The exception is if the class ability specifically says it only applies to spells from that class.)
posted October 2010 | back to top
let's look at a magus level 1 + wizard level 1;
what if the wizard's spells and the magus spells where the same?Would this mean that the magus could, after the 1 wizard level dip, purchase the feat: spell mastery?
because the spells in both spell-books are the same and interchangeable; how about spell mastery for magus spells?
would be pretty cool if a non-spontaneous caster didn't need a spell-book any longer...
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Spell Mastery: Can an alchemist, magus, or witch select this feat?
As written, no, as the feat's prerequisite is "1st-level wizard."
However, the feat was written before the existence of the alchemist, magus, and witch classes, and it is a perfectly reasonable house rule to allow those classes to select the feat and apply its benefits to an alchemist's formula book, magus's spellbook, or witch's familiar.
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Spell Mastery: Can an alchemist, magus, or witch select this feat?
As written, no, as the feat's prerequisite is "1st-level wizard."
However, the feat was written before the existence of the alchemist, magus, and witch classes, and it is a perfectly reasonable house rule to allow those classes to select the feat and apply its benefits to an alchemist's formula book, magus's spellbook, or witch's familiar.
Thanks!
and now...
Elven, Evocation specialist wizard, Bonded object MW Long bow,
using the bow to cast magic missile.
classic.
Yes, you can improve once you meet the pre-reqs and no, you must make a concentration check for any spellcasting. The language isn't restrictive in either case. Precendent comes from this FAQ that provides the following general rule:
"General rule: If a class ability modifies your spellcasting, it applies to your spells from all classes, not just spells from the class that grants the ability. (The exception is if the class ability specifically says it only applies to spells from that class."
If the rule applies to making your admixture or sorcerer dip apply for all spellcasting, it applies for something like this as well.