The Alcohol rules are... problematic at best.


Skull & Shackles

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There is a LOT of crosstalk about the deadliness of the rum ration on the Skull & Shackles boards.

The general consensus on the S&S boards (including the opinions of some Paizo staffers) is that the rules as printed in The Wormwood Mutiny are in error. The point of the rum ration is to keep the sailors slightly drunk and off-kilter, and therefore easier to control.

The Creative Director had this take on the rum ration:

Make the effect be 1d4 penalty to Wisdom for 24 hours instead of Constitution damage.

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

They only have to dump it every other day (or, I guess, only drink half every day) to survive indefinitely, on average.

The Boss is a monster, and not drinking is against the rules. When everyone is breaking the rule, and hiding it, it creates an attitude of fear and distrust, even as they all have to pretend to be happy drunks.


ryric wrote:
Also remember that a DC15 Heal check can get you back 2 points of ability damage per night.

Maybe, but then whoever provides that long-term care must stay awake all night and suffer fatigue the next day.

"Pathfinder SRD, Heal Skill wrote:
You can tend as many as six patients at a time. You need a few items and supplies (bandages, salves, and so on) that are easy to come by in settled lands. Giving long-term care counts as light activity for the healer. You cannot give long-term care to yourself.

Since your care-giver is presumably also swilling this Hezrou Hooch, Vrock Vodka, Marilith Merlot, Balor Brandy, Tsathogga Tequila, or whatever this Abyssal Alcohol really is, it's not likely he'll last long draining his CON without getting his own night of recovery and being fatigued as well - or exhausted if he does it again.


DM_Blake wrote:
thejeff wrote:
In a slapstick kind of way, I kind of like the idea of every pirate on board desperately trying to pour their drinks over the side or into some inconspicuous barrel. All of them concealing it from each other, but not the audience. Hijinks ensue.

Cute if you're playing Keystone Cops Pirates. Or if Larry, Moe, and Curly are the First Mate, Captain, and ship's boy.

Not as good if you're playing a game where verisimilitude has any practical bearing on the game world.

That's pretty much my take on it in reality.

The image is amusing, but doesn't fit what I want out of the game.

Grand Lodge

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Ross Byers wrote:

They only have to dump it every other day (or, I guess, only drink half every day) to survive indefinitely, on average.

The Boss is a monster, and not drinking is against the rules. When everyone is breaking the rule, and hiding it, it creates an attitude of fear and distrust, even as they all have to pretend to be happy drunks.

I am now visualizing Skull and Shackles as the Pathfinder equivalent of Paranoia. The rum is your friend.


I always assumed that the second sentence in the description mattered. It is often watered down. You only get a half a pint to last you all night and the next day? 4 shots? Better cut that. And if you water it down, it shouldn't be nearly as poisonous.

I have trouble picturing a ship full of rambunctious pirates gingerly sipping their rum like a dainty nobleman, or drinking 4 shots and then only water for the rest of the night.


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Bandw2 wrote:
WHY IS THE DRUG WORSE THAN MOST POISONS? WHAT IS THIS STUFF? ITS WORSE THAN ARSENIC!

Because the dosage size is 8 oz? If you drank 8 oz of arsenic you would be taking 8d2 Con.

Dark Archive

Atticus Bleak wrote:
Bandw2 wrote:
WHY IS THE DRUG WORSE THAN MOST POISONS? WHAT IS THIS STUFF? ITS WORSE THAN ARSENIC!
Because the dosage size is 8 oz? If you drank 8 oz of arsenic you would be taking 8d2 Con.

That's another thing... this is half a pint of "staggeringly strong" rum every night? Okay... so is it Kraken Rum? That's 94 proof. How about Bacardi 151 (so named cause it's 151 proof)... or are we talking Everclear which is 200 proof and not even rum by that point, it's 100% pure alcohol?

Plus, as I said on Facebook, I drink Kraken about once every other month or so (which I would say is staggeringly strong... 94 proof is nothing to sneeze at, even if it's not 151) and after half a pint I'm kinda drunk sure... but it takes the whole pint to make me pass out.

I wouldn't think my RL Con is even 10, but apparently it is, maybe even higher...


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Zelda Marie Lupescu wrote:
Atticus Bleak wrote:
Bandw2 wrote:
WHY IS THE DRUG WORSE THAN MOST POISONS? WHAT IS THIS STUFF? ITS WORSE THAN ARSENIC!
Because the dosage size is 8 oz? If you drank 8 oz of arsenic you would be taking 8d2 Con.

That's another thing... this is half a pint of "staggeringly strong" rum every night? Okay... so is it Kraken Rum? That's 94 proof. How about Bacardi 151 (so named cause it's 151 proof)... or are we talking Everclear which is 200 proof and not even rum by that point, it's 100% pure alcohol?

Plus, as I said on Facebook, I drink Kraken about once every other month or so (which I would say is staggeringly strong... 94 proof is nothing to sneeze at, even if it's not 151) and after half a pint I'm kinda drunk sure... but it takes the whole pint to make me pass out.

I wouldn't think my RL Con is even 10, but apparently it is, maybe even higher...

But even with a Con of 10, one ration of Rum won't make you pass out. And once every other month would give you plenty of time to recover.

In fact, if I read the rum rules and the ability score damage rules correctly, no amount of rum will make you pass out. You're conscious until your Con reaches 0, then you're dead. Which makes the "Heave" drinking game, if played as written, kill every player but one.

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

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thejeff wrote:
DM_Blake wrote:
thejeff wrote:
In a slapstick kind of way, I kind of like the idea of every pirate on board desperately trying to pour their drinks over the side or into some inconspicuous barrel. All of them concealing it from each other, but not the audience. Hijinks ensue.

Cute if you're playing Keystone Cops Pirates. Or if Larry, Moe, and Curly are the First Mate, Captain, and ship's boy.

Not as good if you're playing a game where verisimilitude has any practical bearing on the game world.

That's pretty much my take on it in reality.

The image is amusing, but doesn't fit what I want out of the game.

I can see where that could be a skit from Keeping Up Appearances, where everyone but the cook is trying to get out of eating, but its only slapstick if you treat it that way.

Instead, imagine a shipful of angry pirates. Each one thinks there is something wrong with him because he can't stomach the rum ration. After all, he sees the majority of his comrades getting happily drunk. Those he doesn't see getting drunk are punished severely. The best he can do to avoid punishment (and looking weak in front of his peers) is pretend to be happily drunk too and quietly dispose of the rum ration.

Every single one of them is afraid of being found out (because they think the problem is personal, instead of the 'rum' being toxic.) None of them can actually talk to the others about it (because its at best embarrassing and at worst leads to awful punishment.) All of them have to pretend at a drunken joviality they don't feel (even the ones who really are drunk, because they're only tossing the ration every other day aren't happy because its making them sick and they worry that they won't be able to hide tossing tomorrow's ration.)

If that's not terrifying to you in kind of an existential way, I don't know what to do for you.

Alternatively, the Con damage could be from some toxin you can build up a resistance to (like how tobacco makes most people nauseous when they first start using it.) Newbies get awfully sick and have to break the rules to get by (same as how military boot camps often have schedules that require cheating to keep up), but the established crew members, having survived the 'hazing', have built up a resistance and can treat the toxic rum as normal rum or grog. The adventure text doesn't need to get into that because you aren't expected to be swabbies for long enough to get the resistance.

Dark Archive

thejeff wrote:

But even with a Con of 10, one ration of Rum won't make you pass out. And once every other month would give you plenty of time to recover.

In fact, if I read the rum rules and the ability score damage rules correctly, no amount of rum will make you pass out. You're conscious until your Con reaches 0, then you're dead. Which makes the "Heave" drinking game, if played as written, kill every player but one.

Yes, but I have a high tolerance (also my weight is a factor, plus I make sure to also drink plenty of water and eat a loaf of bread (I learned that from Mindy Kaling haha) and I am not drinking a bottle of Kraken every night as the pirates would be doing (in theory)... not to mention, I pass out. As you've said, I wouldn't pass out, I'd be dead. because I would be taking 2d3 Con damage per day. So, in game I wouldn't be having a month to recover, I would be taking 2-6 points of Con damage per day, and only be able to heal 1.

Player: Roll the dice to see if I am getting drunk!
DM (Rolls Dice): No, you are dead!


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WTF? That is so nonsensical. Anyone who used alcohol onboard a ship would be dead for even the shortest of typical boat trips.

It's just like taking arsenic every day or something... absurd. Also why in the world would that stuff be addictive if it's effects are probably undesireable, taste seems to be bad, and it isn't magical?

I think it would make a lot more sense if it required making a fort save against something like sickened and/or dazzled and/or dex/wis penalty.
Con damage is absurd.

creative director wrote:
Make the effect be 1d4 penalty to Wisdom for 24 hours instead of Constitution damage.

Yeah that makes sense. I'd add a dex penalty as well though, and have to make a fort save against sickness. It would be strange though since I don't think any drug requires a user to make a fort save aside from addiction.

That brings up the fact that drugs and poisons are two separate things when they shouldn't be. They should be linked together better. Because as it is now being able to weaponize drugs is too strong compared to poisons due to their lack of saving throw.


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In my campaign I changed it from Rum to Grog and lessened the Con damage to 1d3-1

Scarab Sages

I'll throw in another plug for the Red Dragon Inn book. (Which doesn't solve the OP's problem, but I hope that group is beyond the grog-ration stage of the adventure by now.)

The Guide to Inns and Taverns is fantastic for the

Spoiler:
alcohol-fueled gambling
scene a little later in the AP, too.

Spoiler:
I made 3"x5" cards for each of the drinks in the book, and my players drew a card for each hand of the card game. Most of the characters were pretty drunk by the end of the game. Since then I've kept the cards available for generic tavern scenes. Our alchemist even stocked up on a couple of the arcane-enhancing drinks.

The gambling rules also make a good embellishment or flat-out replacement for the gambling rules in S&S.


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There's a reason in my group the Rum rules have become an in-joke.

First night on the ship they wanted to see how Heave worked, and watched 5 pirates die of drinking rum and the 6th stagger off to die in his sleep later.

Every now and then I'll use it as a badge of badassery.

Me: "This is the Hurricane King. He keeps all the pirates under his thumb. He kills men with rapid fire pistol shots and doesn't blink an eye. He's ruthless, cold blooded, and deadly"

Party: "Yeah? So what? So are we!"

Me: "And he drinks Rum. FOR FUN."

Party: *Horrified Gasps*

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