PFSRD italics = flavor? and if yes, does it still count as rule?


Rules Questions

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1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

Bucklers can be used without the -1 to hit when using a crossbow, yes? Despite that being stated only in the "flavor" text, as it's in italics?

Can then the Grenadier drink potions without provoking AoO?

Quote:
"As an unusual side effect of their skill at handling bombs and alchemical items with increased speed, grenadiers master the ability to drink potions, elixirs, and mutagens quickly and safely, without exposing themselves to peril while doing so."


PFSRD adds in that italics, it isn't from the real books. So italics has no bearing on whether something is actually a rule or flavour text.


That is definitely fluff and not rules. You still provoke when drinking potions unless you have an ability that prevents it.

The Exchange Owner - D20 Hobbies

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I strongly recommend not using pfsrd. They frequently add things that are not in the books, they edits things to make it less clear, and in general are not something I ever use unless I'm verifying something I already know or I double check the actual book or archives of nethys


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It looks like the italic text for the buckler is rules, but the grenadier text is fluff.

Check the actual books.

Edit: Archives of Nethys isn't much help here, since it uses the same exact words, combining the buckler's italic bit into the main description (so it looks even more like actual rule text) but the Grenadier preamble is identical and lacks any mechanical justification in the actual abilities gained.


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Julix wrote:

Bucklers can be used without the -1 to hit when using a crossbow, yes? Despite that being stated only in the "flavor" text, as it's in italics?

Can then the Grenadier drink potions without provoking AoO?

Quote:
"As an unusual side effect of their skill at handling bombs and alchemical items with increased speed, grenadiers master the ability to drink potions, elixirs, and mutagens quickly and safely, without exposing themselves to peril while doing so."

I find PFSRD is usually good to find some offbeat companion book material that might be useful for characters. It also houses a lot of 3PP material as well.

That being said, PFSRD is not an official rules place (though they do post most of the rules, they are late in updates, as well as improper in some rules quoting). Paizo has their official book rules online, here, and should be consulted for what is flavor text and what is rules text.


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PFSRD is AMAZING in that they add the FAQ's and link them, and searching their site is easy, as opposed to Archives of Neyths where doing an actual search will take you longer than just clicking through link. I also don't like the color scheme of Archives, but that's a personal thing.

EDIT: After looking in the actual book, PFSRD is written exactly like it is in the book

Grand Lodge

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Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Jodokai wrote:
PFSRD is AMAZING in that they add the FAQ's and link them, and searching their site is easy, as opposed to Archives of Neyths where doing an actual search will take you longer than just clicking through link. I also don't like the color scheme of Archives, but that's a personal thing.

Good job of pissing on one of the more notable VOLOUNTEER pieces of work from the community. PFSRD is a commercial entreprise, in case you haven't noticed.


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LazarX wrote:
Good job of pissing on one of the more notable VOLOUNTEER pieces of work from the community. PFSRD is a commercial entreprise, in case you haven't noticed.

Which invalidates none of my opinion.


3 people marked this as a favorite.

How is saying he doesn't like the colors, and the fact that the search function is not the best "pissing on one of the more notable VOLOUNTEER pieces of work from the community."

Neyths is amazing, and a great resource, but having said that the search is awful, and the black background does bug some people.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Thefurmonger wrote:

How is saying he doesn't like the colors, and the fact that the search function is not the best "pissing on one of the more notable VOLOUNTEER pieces of work from the community."

Neyths is amazing, and a great resource, but having said that the search is awful, and the black background does bug some people.

The curator of Nethys does his work for free out of his own time and doesn't clutter up his site with adds, or constantly bombard you with popups the way PFSRD does everytime you visit the site. When you go to PFSRD you get hit with the commrecialism right off.

The aesthetics of the Nethys site actually gives you an atmosphere of peering through the scrolls of an arcane library. And I've never had any problems with it's search function.


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Just because Archives of Nethys is volunteer-based does not make it better the PFSRD; the user interface and search function on PFSRD is great and it's much more efficient at looking up rules during game play than searching through books.

I also hate the background color of Archives of Nethys.


Thefurmonger wrote:

How is saying he doesn't like the colors, and the fact that the search function is not the best "pissing on one of the more notable VOLOUNTEER pieces of work from the community."

Neyths is amazing, and a great resource, but having said that the search is awful, and the black background does bug some people.

I have to say I prefer nethys' searches and the fact that things are correctly named. I prefer the colors too. I only go to PFSRD for 3rd party stuff.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Quote:

The curator of Nethys does his work for free out of his own time and doesn't clutter up his site with adds, or constantly bombard you with popups the way PFSRD does everytime you visit the site. When you go to PFSRD you get hit with the commrecialism right off.

The aesthetics of the Nethys site actually gives you an atmosphere of peering through the scrolls of an arcane library. And I've never had any problems with it's search function.

I agree that its a wonderful site. I use it all the time.

My only question was in regards to a small complaint being characterized as "Pissing on it", Dude said he didn't care for the colors, and that it was a personal thing.

Also yes, the search on d20pfsrd is better and easier to use, at least to me, and it seems at least one other guy.

Having said all that, I generally love your posts, and find your opinions to be good and insightful. In this case I think you jumped a guy for nothing.


Jodokai wrote:

PFSRD is AMAZING in that they add the FAQ's and link them, and searching their site is easy, as opposed to Archives of Neyths where doing an actual search will take you longer than just clicking through link. I also don't like the color scheme of Archives, but that's a personal thing.

EDIT: After looking in the actual book, PFSRD is written exactly like it is in the book

I've found AoN better for searching actually. Have you tried their search tool? It automatically lists all results with categories within the search subject.


Secret Wizard wrote:
Jodokai wrote:

PFSRD is AMAZING in that they add the FAQ's and link them, and searching their site is easy, as opposed to Archives of Neyths where doing an actual search will take you longer than just clicking through link. I also don't like the color scheme of Archives, but that's a personal thing.

EDIT: After looking in the actual book, PFSRD is written exactly like it is in the book

I've found AoN better for searching actually. Have you tried their search tool? It automatically lists all results with categories within the search subject.

Yep, that's what i love about it. looking for a trait? Know it deals with unarmed attacks? Type in unarmed then open the trait results in another tab. it's a big help when you don't know the name or are just looking for stuff that modify a certain thing.


Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber
LazarX wrote:
Thefurmonger wrote:

How is saying he doesn't like the colors, and the fact that the search function is not the best "pissing on one of the more notable VOLOUNTEER pieces of work from the community."

Neyths is amazing, and a great resource, but having said that the search is awful, and the black background does bug some people.

The curator of Nethys does his work for free out of his own time and doesn't clutter up his site with adds, or constantly bombard you with popups the way PFSRD does everytime you visit the site. When you go to PFSRD you get hit with the commrecialism right off.

The aesthetics of the Nethys site actually gives you an atmosphere of peering through the scrolls of an arcane library. And I've never had any problems with it's search function.

I actually found a lot of books that i ended buying from pfsrd's ads, they're all on topic with the current page. you looking at the lycanthrope template here's the skinwalker's book.

I also strongly dislike navigating nethys, and found the aesthetics to be distracting.


graystone wrote:
Yep, that's what i love about it. looking for a trait? Know it deals with unarmed attacks? Type in unarmed then open the trait results in another tab. it's a big help when you don't know the name or are just looking for stuff that modify a certain thing.

PFSRD does the same thing. Right above the search results there's a bunch of tabs with Feats, Traits, Magic Items etc.


Jodokai wrote:
graystone wrote:
Yep, that's what i love about it. looking for a trait? Know it deals with unarmed attacks? Type in unarmed then open the trait results in another tab. it's a big help when you don't know the name or are just looking for stuff that modify a certain thing.
PFSRD does the same thing. Right above the search results there's a bunch of tabs with Feats, Traits, Magic Items etc.

Sort of true, but it doesn't break them down the same. Nethys doesn't give you JUST class.

PFSRD does Classes
Nethys does : Classes, Archetypes, Rage Powers, Bloodlines, Orders, Domains, Weapon Groups, Inquisitions, Mysteries, Tricks, Combat Styles, Spirits and Arcane Schools.

PFSRD does magic Items.
Nethys does : every slot, tattoos, shadow piercings and Artifacts.

They aren't the same and the PFSRD isn't as nice. For me, Nethys is 100 times better for finding what I want. I'd be nice if Nethys had hyperlinks and FAQ sidebars but if it's that or finding what I want quicker, I'll stick with the latter.


Not to mention that PFSRD also brings up a ton of bogus results. If you look for "Inquisitor", it will sometimes end up showing results based on the word "Inquisitor" appearing on the sidebar.

Jodokai wrote:
graystone wrote:
Yep, that's what i love about it. looking for a trait? Know it deals with unarmed attacks? Type in unarmed then open the trait results in another tab. it's a big help when you don't know the name or are just looking for stuff that modify a certain thing.
PFSRD does the same thing. Right above the search results there's a bunch of tabs with Feats, Traits, Magic Items etc.

Do yourself a favor. Compare this and then make a Search on Archives of Nethys for "Inquisitor" in the Magic Items category. Tell me which one has more relevant and better categorized results.


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d20pfsrd is helpful for people who don't have every FAQ memorized. For example, if you go to the weapon cord description, it has a sidebar quoting the 'FAQ' changing the action from a swift to a move action.
If you go to weapon cords on the PRD, it still says it is a swift action, with no indication that an FAQ exists.

Granted, that only matters if your group allows FAQs as valid rules sources, which not all groups do.

It's also worth keeping in mind that AoN and d20pfsrd have different purposes. AoN is obviously tailored towards PFS players. They go out of their way to clearly identify what is allowed in PFS. They sort everything by the book it is from, which is a really bad way to organize an online database (as books are organized in a way optimized for usage as books, not online databases), simply because PFS players need to know what book something is from so that they know which in-app-purchase to make. They add all the rules that could be used in PFS (feats, base classes, etc) while ignoring whole sections of the rules which aren't PFS-friendly (guidelines for creating new spells or base classes in UM and ACG, a majority of Pathfinder Unchained, the entirety of the Strategy Guide, mass combat and kingdom building, and most of the GMG.) They aren't exclusively dedicated to PFS (they include all feats from the Core Rulebook, including Leadership and CWI), but the sole editor of AoN is a PFS player, and that's their priority.

Heck, on their 'sources' page, they even list the PFS Guide to Organized Play as part of the 'RPG' line, along with the actual rulebooks.

By contrast, d20pfsrd is organized for general usage. They put rules from different books on the same page because the editors believe it makes them easier to understand (although they are careful to identify sources for each rule, in case GMs want to use it as a criteria for banning). They do acknowledge the existence of PFS on rare occassions (for example, the page on blindness/deafness includes a PFS FAQ), but they don't try to assume it is the default. Hence, the d20pfsrd team are able to optimize their site's layout for general usage, not just for PFS players.

And I do find it telling that the most vocal people who are saying that d20pfsrd is terrible on this thread are LazarX and James Risner: both people who purport to play primarily or elusively PFS. It indicates that the two website's differing design goals are working as intended. The PFS players are flocking to AoN, because it is built for them. Other people either prefer the pfsrd or see ups and downs to both.


As far as searches go, the thing I absolutely hate about d20pfsrd search is that it doesn't always properly redirect to subpages. This is particularly prominent with magic items:

here is the search for Headband of Vast Intelligence. The first result appears to be exactly what you want...
but if you click on it, it brings you to a page of all wondrous items, and you have to scroll down to find a link to another page with just the headband you are looking for. Why doesn't the page with just HBoVInt show up in the search? I like the layout of the actual pages in the pfsrd, but the search feature needs a lot of work IMO.

The Exchange Owner - D20 Hobbies

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Create Mr. Pitt wrote:
PFSRD is great and it's much more efficient at looking up rules during game play

Which is precisely when you should never use PFSRD. I've seen too many errors that I no longer trust them to print what is printed in the books without "editing for clarity". Granted the issues in this thread may be verbatim to the book, but other are not.

Dark Archive

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Do I really have to ask this?

Spoiler:
Why not both?

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
137ben wrote:
And I do find it telling that the most vocal people who are saying that d20pfsrd is terrible on this thread are LazarX and James Risner: both people who purport to play primarily or elusively PFS. It indicates that the two website's differing design goals are working as intended. The PFS players are flocking to AoN, because it is built for them. Other people either prefer the pfsrd or see ups and downs to both.

I never said that d20pfsrd is "terrible", I still use the site after all. But I am finding their ads more intrusive as time goes by. I understand that it's a store, but yes, Archives of Nethys DOES serve me better as a PFS player/GM and since they're not a commercial site, they did not have to strip out all of the Golarion-setting speific material that D20 HAD to, the moment they went commercial.


littlegirlsayingwhycantwehaveboth.gif

Bringing back to the original question -- I suspect the Grenadier archetype was originally intended to include an ability to drink extracts and potions without provoking, but that ability was removed for balance reasons.


Paladin of Baha-who? wrote:

littlegirlsayingwhycantwehaveboth.gif

Bringing back to the original question -- I suspect the Grenadier archetype was originally intended to include an ability to drink extracts and potions without provoking, but that ability was removed for balance reasons.

Likely.


Ignoring the wild tangents above, the PRD (in both the CRB and UE) has that descriptive text for the buckler included with all of the other benefits, without italics. Therefore, it is real rule-language. Normally, you must have both hands available to use a bow or crossbow (except crossbows which may be fired but not reloaded one-handed). I take the "without penalty" clause in the buckler's benefits section to mean it does not interfere with the two hands requirement or interfere with the bow and crossbow in any way. This is separate from the buckler's clause regarding wielding a weapon in the same hand, but yes, I believe that -1 attack only applies to melee weapons held in the same hand.

The Grenadier archetype question, on the other hand, does seem to be limited to flavor text, and could possibly be referring to the Precise Bombs and Directed Blast abilities. So no, it does not stop you from provoking AoO's.

Grand Lodge

Julix wrote:

Bucklers can be used without the -1 to hit when using a crossbow, yes? Despite that being stated only in the "flavor" text, as it's in italics?

Can then the Grenadier drink potions without provoking AoO?

Quote:
"As an unusual side effect of their skill at handling bombs and alchemical items with increased speed, grenadiers master the ability to drink potions, elixirs, and mutagens quickly and safely, without exposing themselves to peril while doing so."

So as far as I can tell, that was a power they were supposed to get that got cut in development, but the teaser for it got left in the summary.

Grand Lodge

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Thefurmonger wrote:

How is saying he doesn't like the colors, and the fact that the search function is not the best "pissing on one of the more notable VOLOUNTEER pieces of work from the community."

Neyths is amazing, and a great resource, but having said that the search is awful, and the black background does bug some people.

You realize the search just got re-engineered, right?


FLite wrote:
Julix wrote:

Bucklers can be used without the -1 to hit when using a crossbow, yes? Despite that being stated only in the "flavor" text, as it's in italics?

Can then the Grenadier drink potions without provoking AoO?

Quote:
"As an unusual side effect of their skill at handling bombs and alchemical items with increased speed, grenadiers master the ability to drink potions, elixirs, and mutagens quickly and safely, without exposing themselves to peril while doing so."
So as far as I can tell, that was a power they were supposed to get that got cut in development, but the teaser for it got left in the summary.

Yep, often the RAI is left after the RAW is axed. It's like those cantrips we where meant to get in Ultimate Magic.

FLite wrote:
You realize the search just got re-engineered, right?

Yep, to make it 'easier'. I preferred the old way, but the new way will still get you the same results. You just can't narrow the search as much. It still breaks up the categories much further than d20pfsrd (item by slot, characters by abilities, ect). That and you don't get any 3rd party results (a big plus for me).


So for some reason I found the Grenadier thing on PRD here:

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/monsterCodex/hobgoblins.html#

And it says it the same as on the d20PFSRD

So to get back to topic: It seems like an editing error, no? IMHO the fluff isn't just meaningless but missleading without there being an ability attached to it...

It's just a trait to get that anyways, right? Accelerated Drinker

So why not include it in the class. Do you think it was meant to be in there or not?


Nethys lists the Grenadier archetype as existing in the Pathfinder Society Field Guide, as well as the Monster Codex. I have the MC but I don't own the PFSFG and it's not included in the PRD, so I can't confirm the accuracy of the quote, but Nethys has very slight wording differences between the two versions that don't appear to change the actual rules. The text at the beginning appears to be flavor text, similar to the flavor text in front of other archetypes, prestige classes and full classes, and doesn't count as rules-language for any of those so why make an exception here?

On a side note, I do have the Cheliax Player Companion book with Accelerated Drinker and can confirm that d20pfsrd misquotes it by adding the italics and separating it with the "Benefit:" part. My copy of the trait shows all of the text in the same paragraph, and does not have the word "Benefit:". It doesn't really change the meaning of the trait though, so it's not as egregious as the Buckler description linked up-thread.

The Exchange

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I sometimes make an effort to call out "fluff" text from "crunch" text in order to make reading text easier. For instance, sometimes a spell is presented as:

common format:

You wave your arms in the air like you just don't care as a blast of brilliant colors erupts before you. All sighted creatures within 20 ft. of you must make a Ref save or become dazzled.

And so I do this:

my format:

You wave your arms in the air like you just don't care as a blast of brilliant colors erupts before you.
All sighted creatures within 20 ft. of you must make a Ref save or become dazzled.

In my experience, the second format is easier to read and quicker to understand what the spell actually does. Some may not like it, while others may. I'm gambling more people appreciate the change than don't. Who knows? Maybe I'm wrong.

As for the comments about purpose/presentation of the site in general, yes, I purposely arrange content on the site to be a general purpose reference site and don't separate content by book. That, to me, would make using it as a general resource far, far harder because you have to know ahead of time what book holds what content. For some that's ideal (having it arranged by book) whereas for others, not so much. Also, I don't play PFS and rarely run published campaign settings. That's why I don't care that the words "Golarion" "Cheliax" etc. are not allowed to be used on the site. My target audience is more the people who run their own campaign settings, or who also don't care so much about the lack of Golarion references. My thinking is that that audience is far, far larger than the PFS crowd, or the crowd who demands the Golarion references. Thus far I think I've been correct in my assumptions based on traffic etc.

So if your primary Pathfinder playing is PFS or strictly Golarion you will find a lot of value in AoN and the PRD. If your primary Pathfinder is your own campaign setting (or your GMs) then I think you'll probably find greater value in d20pfsrd.com. However, I think it's fair to say that AoN, the PRD, and d20pfsrd.com, all present value to Pathfinder players and there's no requirement that you choose just one. Use whatever suits you best. If you aren't getting everything you need from that one, try another one. Regardless of whatever online, digital format you use however, be sure to continue to support Paizo by buying stuff from them so they can continue making the game we love to play.


Julix wrote:

So for some reason I found the Grenadier thing on PRD here:

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/monsterCodex/hobgoblins.html#

And it says it the same as on the d20PFSRD

So to get back to topic: It seems like an editing error, no? IMHO the fluff isn't just meaningless but missleading without there being an ability attached to it...

It's just a trait to get that anyways, right? Accelerated Drinker

So why not include it in the class. Do you think it was meant to be in there or not?

Extracts are NOT potions.

Scarab Sages

Lots of great feedback on all the sites! Curious on those of you who use the AoN, since it seems like the topic of the day is now on our 3rd party sites:

1. Background - Would a simple color swap of black and white fix most of the issues? I've been thinking about redoing the CSS to have the white background and black text, since it is a common request.

2. Search - I developed the entire engine myself for fun, but if there are better already made engines out there that I could plugin, I'd love to know about them. I've thought about sticking a google search engine on the site for one.

Sczarni

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I appreciate the black background, myself.

Easier on the eyes when I'm roleplaying as an insomniac laying in bed with just my phone at 3am.

The Exchange

@Karui: It might be better to take discussion of potential changes to AoN to a separate thread. I think this one was specifically about presentation on d20pfsrd.com (no worries either way).


Blue works better than black, for many people (even if it appears to not be necessarily true for dyslexic people).

Darker blue with paler text or lighter blue with dark text...Some sites get that the wrong way round.


@d20pfsrd.com: Thanks for popping in! =]

I've been a fan of your site for a long time now, and use it regularly (as well as Nethys). In most instances, your formatting changes work well. That being said, would you mind addressing the description of the buckler? The versions in the CRB and in UE have the part about using ranged weapons without penalty included in the rules-language. Would you consider reformatting the text on your site, for clarity?


Karui Kage wrote:

Lots of great feedback on all the sites! Curious on those of you who use the AoN, since it seems like the topic of the day is now on our 3rd party sites:

1. Background - Would a simple color swap of black and white fix most of the issues? I've been thinking about redoing the CSS to have the white background and black text, since it is a common request.

2. Search - I developed the entire engine myself for fun, but if there are better already made engines out there that I could plugin, I'd love to know about them. I've thought about sticking a google search engine on the site for one.

I actually like the dark background.

I believe there have been studies done in the late 80's that show a dark background with light text is easier for people to read. The eye focuses faster and less eye strain.

Having said that... Most people are not used to seeing it very often so it can seem intrusively different.

Also it can cause problems when printing unless there is some conversion.


Karui Kage - When I initially made my comments on your search engine, I hadn't been there in awhile and the last time I was there was a page of check boxes to scroll though. I do like the the more streamlined version, but it's still not convenient for what I use the sites for. Most of the time I know what I'm looking for, I just need to know if it works the way I think it does. I'm usually typing quickly and a horrible speller, and PFSRD understands me. I do very much dislike the black background, and I would dare say that in the 80's monitors were MUCH different than they are today.

That said, after playing with your search engine some more, I can see some real value in it. My suggestion would be to simply add a google search bar similar to PFSRD's at the top of every page, but keep what you have too. Being able to check what each book has in it, is really an awesome benefit.

EDIT: My other suggestion, I don't like a block of things just separated by commas, I would much rather columns and rows of information. You have that option on your regular search but not the book search for example.


Karui Kage wrote:

Lots of great feedback on all the sites! Curious on those of you who use the AoN, since it seems like the topic of the day is now on our 3rd party sites:

1. Background - Would a simple color swap of black and white fix most of the issues? I've been thinking about redoing the CSS to have the white background and black text, since it is a common request.

2. Search - I developed the entire engine myself for fun, but if there are better already made engines out there that I could plugin, I'd love to know about them. I've thought about sticking a google search engine on the site for one.

1) Love the background and would like it to stay. A white background is much 'harsher' on the eyes and your background is one of the reasons I prefer your site.

2) As I'd said above, I preferred the more extensive search options but I can live with the current way. I wouldn't want you to remove the current search engine as I like the results MUCH more than other places.

2b) Jodokai has an interesting suggestion. I wouldn't mind a google search bar in addition to the current search. I disagree with him on the formatting though as I like it as is.

PS: It cool to see people from both sites pop in to get feedback. :)

Dark Archive

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Karui Kage wrote:

Lots of great feedback on all the sites! Curious on those of you who use the AoN, since it seems like the topic of the day is now on our 3rd party sites:

1. Background - Would a simple color swap of black and white fix most of the issues? I've been thinking about redoing the CSS to have the white background and black text, since it is a common request.

2. Search - I developed the entire engine myself for fun, but if there are better already made engines out there that I could plugin, I'd love to know about them. I've thought about sticking a google search engine on the site for one.

As far as 1) goes, if possible, a toggle between black on white and white on black would be amazing. That way everybody gets what they want.


Jodokai wrote:
... I do very much dislike the black background, and I would dare say that in the 80's monitors were MUCH different than they are today. ...

It wasn't about monitors. I believe the testing was primarily done with paper. It was about physiology and the way the eyes react to incoming light.

The white sets off all the receptors in your eye. The reader is actually trying to focus on the small portions of the field of view that don't set off every receptor. That is more difficult, so causes eye strain much quicker.
I don't remember all the details, but I think the found the optimal was dark blue, brown, or green instead of actual black worked best for the back ground. I don't remember what color worked best for the lettering, it may have depended upon which background you chose.

Nothing much happened with it back then, because colored paper is or printing a background is much more expensive than white paper and black letters.

However, really intensive computer applications (CAD, FEA, etc...) have mostly switched to dark backgrounds and light objects. (The programs are just smart enough to use a different color set if printed out to hardcopy.) Investigating quickly found that if you are staring at those black lines on a bright white background for hours on end, it fairly quickly becomes difficult to focus on the lines. Users start squinting and getting headaches.

Like I said, it is primarily an issue of most people not being used to seeing it.


Karui Kage wrote:

Lots of great feedback on all the sites! Curious on those of you who use the AoN, since it seems like the topic of the day is now on our 3rd party sites:

1. Background - Would a simple color swap of black and white fix most of the issues? I've been thinking about redoing the CSS to have the white background and black text, since it is a common request.

2. Search - I developed the entire engine myself for fun, but if there are better already made engines out there that I could plugin, I'd love to know about them. I've thought about sticking a google search engine on the site for one.

Both these changes would be AMAZING, google search seems to work really well.

Dark Archive

Darker, plain text on a lighter background has been found to be more readable on average (one example for anyone interested in a study on it) however it also causes more strain reading it over extended periods, thus the usage is ideally determined by how the text is expected to be consumed. Short periods of reading prefer dark text on light backgrounds, extended durations prefer the opposite.

Personally I find AoN fine, it may have been jarring the first few times but I'm used to it now and whilst I do think a google search bar may be useful as well, I really like the unique search engine AoN uses, I've found many feats/items/spells that I wasn't aware of thanks to it.

Shadow Lodge

Karui Kage wrote:

Lots of great feedback on all the sites! Curious on those of you who use the AoN, since it seems like the topic of the day is now on our 3rd party sites:

1. Background - Would a simple color swap of black and white fix most of the issues? I've been thinking about redoing the CSS to have the white background and black text, since it is a common request.

2. Search - I developed the entire engine myself for fun, but if there are better already made engines out there that I could plugin, I'd love to know about them. I've thought about sticking a google search engine on the site for one.

I find your delineated search results to be quite useful. I would hate for them to go away.


Karui Kage wrote:

Lots of great feedback on all the sites! Curious on those of you who use the AoN, since it seems like the topic of the day is now on our 3rd party sites:

1. Background - Would a simple color swap of black and white fix most of the issues? I've been thinking about redoing the CSS to have the white background and black text, since it is a common request.

2. Search - I developed the entire engine myself for fun, but if there are better already made engines out there that I could plugin, I'd love to know about them. I've thought about sticking a google search engine on the site for one.

1. I am quite fond of the black background myself; it's different compared to most other sites, but I find it pleasant on the eyes.

2. Based on my experience with the google search on d20pfsrd, I must say I prefer your search engine; the results are delineated in a more cohesive manner and are often more relevant to what I was looking for.


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James Risner wrote:
Create Mr. Pitt wrote:
PFSRD is great and it's much more efficient at looking up rules during game play
Which is precisely when you should never use PFSRD. I've seen too many errors that I no longer trust them to print what is printed in the books without "editing for clarity". Granted the issues in this thread may be verbatim to the book, but other are not.

have you ever posted an example? From what I know d20pfsrd is more accurate than Paizo prd because it lists FAQs. I do know you claim there are errors a lot, I use it a ton and have found like, one, which was a broken link

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