Hi all. Was helping a fella make a character for a campaign and it got me to thinking. He was making a divine dragon disciple based on a Loracle. He was curious as how defensive it was and would he be a could frontliner and so on. I told him a DD was always a viable frontliner and he was content. MY question is how high can we get a LV 12 character AC and how high can we get a DD AC at LV 12? I frankly don't know what the ideal combos are without making too many sacrifices or what equipment is the most cost effective so I need some help.
What I have is Loracle 5/DD 7 half orc with sacred tatoo and fates favored. 14,12,12,13,8,16(18) feats 1) racial heritage, 3) scaled disciple, 5) divine protection 7)combat expertise 9 tower shield prof
The AC...
10 base
+charisma (light armor)
+light armor bonus
+4 natural armor (DD and sorc lines powers)
+4 (tower shield)
+1-5 (combat expertise)
Conservatively that comes out to 26AC with very high saves and no use of combat expertise. Alternatively you could go heavy armor (battle oracle) and be a 28 AC flat with a plate armor.
So how much bigger can we make this with wealth and magic equipment and such? I'd think we would be getting close to synthesist, though not quite. Appreciate any help.
Make him a Nagaji for +1 Nat arm (and Str and Cha, which are your primary stats anyway)
Jingasa of the Fortunate Soldier for +2 AC
Dusty Pale Prism Ioun Stone for +1 AC
Standard Magic armor/shield/Ring of Prot/Amulet of Nat arm
Ryzoken wrote: Make him a Nagaji for +1 Nat arm (and Str and Cha, which are your primary stats anyway)
Jingasa of the Fortunate Soldier for +2 AC
Dusty Pale Prism Ioun Stone for +1 AC
Standard Magic armor/shield/Ring of Prot/Amulet of Nat arm
So my initially 28+ yours without magic equipment is 31 AC.
Were I going similar lines, I'd eschew Oracle entirely.
Nagaji Savage Technologist 1, Archaeologist Bard 1, XXXX 3, Dragon Disciple 7
[S 16 D 14 C 14 I 8 W 10 C 16] or [S 16 D 14 C 14 I 13 W 8 C 14]
Feats: Quick Draw, Lingering Performance, Power Attack, Shield Focus, Dodge
Slot in either Lore Warden Fighter 2/Archaeologist +1, or Weapon Master 3 for XXXX. Lore Warden grants Combat Expertise, letting you ignore your Int, Weapon Master 3 gets you Weapon Training 1 so you can buy Dueling Gloves for +3 hit and damage in the long run.
@12: AC is 28 pre magic armor or combat expertise
10 + 4 Dex + 6 armor (mithril breastplate) + 5 nat arm + 2 shield (quickdraw light shield) +1 dodge
Attack is, conservatively:
BAB 9 + Str Mod 8 + 2 Luck + 1 Weapon Training + 2 morale (Heroism, castable) - Pwr Atk of 3 - Combat Expertise of 3 = +16 pre magic
for 1d8 + Str mod*1.5 (12) + PAtk (9) + Weapon Training 1 + 2 Luck = 1d8+24
Magic items increase these stats significantly quickly.
+1 Weapon, Dueling Gloves, +6 Str Belt makes our attack into
+22 for 1d8+39
+3 armor, +3 shield, +2 Ring of Prot, +2 Amulet of Nat Arm, Jingasa, Ioun stone raise AC to 41, 44 after Combat Expertise
Saving throws aren't too bad either, thanks to Achaeologist's luck, multiclassing, and Rage adding in. Throw in a +4 cloak of resist over time and you're probably good to go.
We eschewed a tower shield so we can use a quickdraw shield during opponents' turns and two hand a weapon during our turn for rough beats.
Use of it what you will. If nothing else, I really recommend grabbing a quickdraw shield instead of the tower shield so you can up your damage.
Nagaji doesn't work because they cannot qualify for racial heritage (a human feat) to qualify for scaled discipline (a kobold feat). Unless scaled discipline has made it into some new book, this isn't PFS legal as nothing in Kobolds of Golarion is PFS legal.
cnetarian wrote: Nagaji doesn't work because they cannot qualify for racial heritage (a human feat) to qualify for scaled discipline (a kobold feat). Unless scaled discipline has made it into some new book, this isn't PFS legal as nothing in Kobolds of Golarion is PFS legal. Divine Protection isn't PFS legal either, which is why when I went for a defensive 'tank' build I went the way I did. Obviously if he went Nagaji, he'd have to cycle out his feats for other stuff and qualify for DD somehow, but there's plenty of other stuff to get so... meh?
I actually didn't know divine protection wasn't legal.
With that you could go human crusader cleric. That would get you tower shield prof and heavy armor prof for free and gain human extra feat plus free up the slot I used for divine protection. with that you could change my battle oracle build to fit dodge in for a +1, shield focus for +1, and something else. With that you have a baseline of 30AC + 11 from equipment for 41 without combat expertise. this will match Ryzoken's unique layout just up above unless ive missed something.
Can we beat 41 AC? Heck can synthesis beat that at this level without sacrificing better stuff like flight or spell resistance, and its not legal in PFS anyway :)
41 AC seems to be about what you need to be untouchable until Seeker levels. Maybe focus on trying to be more efficient with the bonuses at this point so you can fit more into the build besides that.
Ideally you want to give the enemy a reason to have to try and kill you so that the high AC doesn't mean your party is getting attacked instead.
Ragoz wrote: 41 AC seems to be about what you need to be untouchable until Seeker levels. Maybe focus on trying to be more efficient with the bonuses at this point so you can fit more into the build besides that.
Ideally you want to give the enemy a reason to have to try and kill you so that the high AC doesn't mean your party is getting attacked instead.
Efficiency is the name of the game. It's why I didn't go higher than +3 on Armor/Shield or +2 on Ring or Amulet. Should be doable on a level 11 salary, assuming you didn't need to shell out for multiple raise dead castings on the way up, which you shouldn't have needed to.
That's also why attention was paid to maintaining decent melee capability, to ensure people keep swinging at you because you're a threat. The theorycraft in my prior post springs from a PFS DD build I put together that wasn't defense optimized. I'd gone DD purely for moar Str! but then realized that hey, that's +4 Natural Armor that stacks with existing Natural Armor and an Amulet. That's the basis for a defense build and, well, instant tank.
The problem, Renegadesheperd, in going with the crusader cleric is that you don't qualify for DD due to the Kobolds of Golarion book not being PFS legal. My assembly covers the arcane casting prereq by dipping into Archaeologist Bard, which also dovetails nicely with Fate's Favored and the focus on self buffing, amping our saves, atk, dmg, and skill checks. You could achieve similar by dipping a level of Archaeologist Bard, but you'd have dropped 2 BAB before entering DD, and lost a cleric caster level to boot, not to mention DD not advancing clerical progression without that kobold feat (which doesn't work for Cleric due to not being a spontaneous divine caster)
I really wish I had a better answer for what to put in the pre DD 3 level stack. Savage Tech 1, Archaeologist 1 are easy, but once they're in, the question becomes what do I take without sacrificing BAB. I've considered Mutagenic Mauler Brawler for more AC by dint of its mutagen, but didn't like relying on a 30min consumable that takes an hour to brew. There's about three Fighter archetypes worth considering (Viking, Lore Warden, Weapon Master) for varying reasons. There's Musket Master Gunslinger for the luls, since I get the fast musket ability right before DD, shoring up my ranged capabilities in theory... except a bow is superior due to my freakishly high strength. I could take Ranger, if I hated myself. I considered Martial Artist Monk, but that eliminates my only true dump stat (which I don't want to dump anyway) and clashes with Nagaji and with wearing armor, effectively lowering my AC.
/headdesk
Mirror image.
Ac is fine as is. He has good HP pool.
Next would be miss chance mirror image.
Followed by damage reduction. (Stone skin and defending bone are my favorites.)
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