Master Craftsman inquiry


Rules Questions


I'm finding many old posts about this feat and many of them answer one or another question about it, but there are also several things that are not as clear. That said this is what I know, or feel I know:

1) MC gives you a +5 in a craft.
2) MC allows you to craft (for this purpose) weapons with magical properties, though your Craft (weaponsmithing) skill.
3) MC states that this allows you to qualify as a caster for other purposes of feats.

4) Those things are a given. From that one would infer that to craft a magical weapon you also need the feat Craft Magical Arms and Armor.
Now let's say we want to make a +1 Menacing Longsword (a +1 ability requiring Phantasmal Killer to create.)

This character would need a scroll of Phantasmal Killer or some other item/ability that would allow him to cast PK.

Question one: Does this mean if he fails he needs a new PK scroll? I assume so.

Question two: Does he need ranks in Use Magic Device to be able to cast this scroll, to enchant this weapon with said ability?

Question three: if you then have skills in Craft (Armorsmithing) can that same character also make magical armors by virtue of the fact he's already practiced at melding magic into his weapon, or does it require a second Master Craftsman feat to get that?

Question four: If he doesn't have ranks in Craft (Armorsmithing) can he use his Craft Magical Arms and Armor, plus some absurd bonus to armorsmithing he achieved from somewhere along the road, plus a lucky die roll to enchant armor without any actual skill ranks that he could not otherwise craft?

Shadow Lodge

1) Yes, and in fact you don't just need one scroll, you need one scroll per day of crafting. Or you can add 5 to the DC and skip the scroll. Or a friend could cast it for you.

2) Yes, if you're using the scroll and you can't cast from the scroll normally you need UMD.

3) You can't take Master Craftsman twice and you must use the selected skill to make the item so you can never make armour.

4) No, you need either actual caster levels or Master Craftsman (armoursmith) to even attempt to make magic armour.


So, short answer, there is some... contention on this issue. As I'm sure you might have seen.

Now, let's start with step 1 on the rules forum for asking how an existing thing works. Post the text of the thing.

Master Craftsman wrote:

Your superior crafting skills allow you to create simple magic items.

Prerequisites: 5 ranks in any Craft or Profession skill.

Benefit: Choose one Craft or Profession skill in which you possess at least 5 ranks. You receive a +2 bonus on your chosen Craft or Profession skill. Ranks in your chosen skill count as your caster level for the purposes of qualifying for the Craft Magic Arms and Armor and Craft Wondrous Item feats. You can create magic items using these feats, substituting your ranks in the chosen skill for your total caster level. You must use the chosen skill for the check to create the item. The DC to create the item still increases for any necessary spell requirements (see the magic item creation rules in Magic Items). You cannot use this feat to create any spell-trigger or spell-activation item.

Normal: Only spellcasters can qualify for the Craft Magic Arms and Armor and Craft Wondrous Item feats.

Your list of bullet points is all wrong. MC gives +2, it lets you qualify for Craft Wondrous and Magic Arms and Armor with your ranks in the Craft skill you used for MC, and it uses your ranks in the Craft skill as your caster level (for the purposes of those feats). 2 is somewhat correct but you need Craft Magic Arms and Armor first.

Now the questions. First off, you need to understand magic item creation. If a magic item requires a spell you need to provide that spell every day of crafting and the spell (or slot for spontaneous casters) is expended. You can ignore any requirements (including spells required) by taking +5 to the DC.

Strictest interpretation:

1. A scroll of PK is not enough. You would need to be a spellcaster with the spell prepared or known.

Create Magic Weapons wrote:
If spells are involved in the prerequisites for making the weapon, the creator must have prepared the spells to be cast (or must know the spells, in the case of a sorcerer or bard) but need not provide any material components or focuses the spells require. The act of working on the weapon triggers the prepared spells, making them unavailable for casting during each day of the weapon's creation. (That is, those spell slots are expended from the caster's currently prepared spells, just as if they had been cast.)

2. See above.

More lenient interpretation (based on the text that someone else can help provide spells).

1. You would need a scroll of PK for every day of crafting (so it could be "expended").

2. You would need UMD so the spell could be "cast" and used as part of the creation.

Those are two possible interpretations.

3. No. Master Craftsman is very specific in that you choose one Craft skill and you must use that Craft skill to make the check. Additionally, Master Craftsman has no text that you can choose it more than once. Allowing you to take it again would be a houserule (and a fairly common one).

4. No. See above.


Bob Bob Bob wrote:

Now the questions. First off, you need to understand magic item creation. If a magic item requires a spell you need to provide that spell every day of crafting and the spell (or slot for spontaneous casters) is expended. You can ignore any requirements (including spells required) by taking +5 to the DC.

This is true. The relevant rules are:

Quote:


These prerequisites must be met for the item to be created. Most of the time, they take the form of spells that must be known by the item's creator (although access through another magic item or spellcaster is allowed). The DC to create a magic item increases by 5 for each prerequisite the caster does not meet.

So, access to phantasmal killer is not required. Secondly, access to the spell "through a magic item ... is allowed".


Bob Bob Bob wrote:

So, short answer, there is some... contention on this issue. As I'm sure you might have seen.

Now, let's start with step 1 on the rules forum for asking how an existing thing works. Post the text of the thing.

Master Craftsman:
Your superior crafting skills allow you to create simple magic items.

Prerequisites: 5 ranks in any Craft or Profession skill.

Benefit: Choose one Craft or Profession skill in which you possess at least 5 ranks. You receive a +2 bonus on your chosen Craft or Profession skill. Ranks in your chosen skill count as your caster level for the purposes of qualifying for the Craft Magic Arms and Armor and Craft Wondrous Item feats. You can create magic items using these feats, substituting your ranks in the chosen skill for your total caster level. You must use the chosen skill for the check to create the item. The DC to create the item still increases for any necessary spell requirements (see the magic item creation rules in Magic Items). You cannot use this feat to create any spell-trigger or spell-activation item.

Normal: Only spellcasters can qualify for the Craft Magic Arms and Armor and Craft Wondrous Item feats.


Your list of bullet points is all wrong. MC gives +2, it lets you qualify for Craft Wondrous and Magic Arms and Armor with your ranks in the Craft skill you used for MC, and it uses your ranks in the Craft skill as your caster level (for the purposes of those feats). 2 is somewhat correct but you need Craft Magic Arms and Armor first.

Now the questions. First off, you need to understand magic item creation. If a magic item requires a spell you need to provide that spell every day of crafting and the spell (or slot for spontaneous casters) is expended. You can ignore any requirements (including spells required) by taking +5 to the DC.

Strictest interpretation:

1. A scroll of PK is not enough. You would need to be a spellcaster with the spell prepared or known.

Create Magic Weapons:
If spells are involved in the prerequisites for making the weapon, the creator must have prepared the spells to be cast (or must know the spells, in the case of a sorcerer or bard) but need not provide any material components or focuses the spells require. The act of working on the weapon triggers the prepared spells, making them unavailable for casting during each day of the weapon's creation. (That is, those spell slots are expended from the caster's currently prepared spells, just as if they had been cast.)

2. See above.

More lenient interpretation (based on the text that someone else can help provide spells).

1. You would need a scroll of PK for every day of crafting (so it could be "expended").

2. You would need UMD so the spell could be "cast" and used as part of the creation.

Those are two possible interpretations.

Since there is no casting involved, there is no UMD needed.

Bob Bob Bob wrote:
3. No. Master Craftsman is very specific in that you choose one Craft skill and you must use that Craft skill to make the check. Additionally, Master Craftsman has no text that you can choose it more than once. Allowing you to take it again would be a houserule (and a fairly common one).

Yes. You use the selected craft skill for the magic crafting check. Not necessarily for making the base item*. You can even buy the base item and use your selected craft skill for the enchanting.

*Base item = masterwork armor

Bob Bob Bob wrote:
4. No. See above.

Yes. See above.

"You can create magic items using these feats, substituting your ranks in the chosen skill for your total caster level. You must use the chosen skill for the check to create the item."

Pretty clear that the skill selected is used for the CL and the check for success. No indication it is also needed to actually make the base item. Remember, wizards use spellcraft to make these items also, and usually have no ranks in the craft. Lastly, the wizard can use either spellcraft or Craft(X) to make magic items. The MC can only use Craft(X).

The feat is to let a crafter have access to a limited ability to infuse magic into items. It still needs the magic item crafting feat to fully come on-line. The crafting feat also covers how to enchant BOTH armor and weapons.

/cevah

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