Assuming you have a monk or a brawler with TWF. He is holding a shield on his one hand and making all of his twf attacks with kicks, headbuts, his other hand, etc
does he still gain the shield bonus to ac? or since he is using twf he is considered to be using "two hands of effort" so he doesn't actually use the shield?
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Good question, there's an ongoing argument for both sides. The short answer is "ask your GM" with a side-order of "expect table variation". If you're the GM, just make a call, and maybe say "yes, but we'll revisit after a few sessions".
You could argue that flurry doesn't use two hands of effort since all of the attacks can be done with one hand.
you cant use flurry with shield, i'm just using twf with monks/brawlers ius
Depends on who's doing the flurrying. I'm pretty sure a divine fist can wear a shield while flurrying.
Melkiador wrote: Depends on who's doing the flurrying. I'm pretty sure a divine fist can wear a shield while flurrying. according to the sohei faq yes, but i'm more interested in Umonk or vanilla monk
This is a very relevant question for brawlers.
Or more precisely, it is very relevant for people dipping brawler.
Remember- brawler works with regular TWF feats, so you could continue advancing the flurry if you took TWF regularly, or with slayer/ranger. That means that your TWF get a straight upgrade (since you can use a single weapon for all attacks) in return for a relatively minor restriction to monk/close weapons (the cestus is already one of the better TWF weapons, and there are plenty of one handed monk blades in martial proficiency)
So dipping 2 levels of brawler gives you a lot of goodies, and a nice enough upgrade to TWF. This could be made into a sword and board build without the need to hit with the board.
continuing in the same vein:
you have a monk/brawler, they can explicitly do their unarmed attacks with elbows and othr parts of their bodies.
does this means that if someone polymorphed said monk to p.e. a gargoyle (or any other form with natural attacks):
he gets to do all of his unarmed attacks (excluding flurry) and then stack up all of his natural attacks as secondary?
i mean, he uses his 2 claws as claws, his bite and his gore, and then his unarmed attacks with the iteratives using p.e. his elbows or knees.
i assume this is legal?
lemeres wrote: This is a very relevant question for brawlers.
Or more precisely, it is very relevant for people dipping brawler.
Remember- brawler works with regular TWF feats, so you could continue advancing the flurry if you took TWF regularly, or with slayer/ranger. That means that your TWF get a straight upgrade (since you can use a single weapon for all attacks) in return for a relatively minor restriction to monk/close weapons (the cestus is already one of the better TWF weapons, and there are plenty of one handed monk blades in martial proficiency)
So dipping 2 levels of brawler gives you a lot of goodies, and a nice enough upgrade to TWF. This could be made into a sword and board build without the need to hit with the board.
for my case it is moms/urogue:
pummeling charge with twf and scout for sneak in the charge.
So far so good.
but since i can use a single hand, or knees or whatever, does this means i can hold a buckler on the other hand for a bit extra ac?
or does twf-ing exludes the use of a shield despite not actually using the hand using the shield to attack?
For a Monk-turned-Gargoyle, Kick/Kick/Claw/Claw/Bite/Gore would be legal, but not in a Flurry. It would require Two-Weapon Fighting.
You don't even need to be a monk. A normal gargoyle could do this, although they would need IUS to avoid provoking.
Avoron wrote: You don't even need to be a monk. A normal gargoyle could do this, although they would need IUS to avoid provoking. afaik only monk and brawler have the clause that allows them to use any part of their body as weapons and have their hands occupied otherwise.
a lenient gm could allow other people with IUS to "kick", but the only written place for this is:
Quote: A monk's attacks may be with fist, elbows, knees, and feet. This means that a monk may make unarmed strikes with his hands full. There is no such thing as an off-hand attack for a monk striking unarmed. A monk may thus apply his full Strength bonus on damage rolls for all his unarmed strikes.
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From the combat section of the core rulebook:
"Unarmed Attacks: Striking for damage with punches, kicks, and head butts is much like attacking with a melee weapon, except for the following:"
For what it's worth, I don't really like the idea of non-monks and non-brawlers trying to get kicks in to add to their usual weapon swinging, but that's more game concepts and thinking to keep those two classes unique rather than based on the holy RAW, praise be upon them.
Shields are already usable in two-weapon fighting; I think most of the sword-and-board guides I've read have suggested doing just that, to help with bashing.
That said, to do this with a monk or brawler, you're already sinking two feats that aren't really ones that those classes traditionally need, TWF and Shield Proficiency. (I'm not going to talk about dipping. Single class all the way!) Monks also get an extra penalty when holding a shield, losing things like 'his AC bonus, as well as his fast movement and flurry of blows abilities.'
For a monk or brawler, I'd really skip TWF. There's already evidence that if you're lugging around your favourite quarterstaff you can still use your legs for unarmed attacks, and at least then you've got a 6' pole to poke at things with. I think the only real benefit that TWF has for either class is to avoid flurry restrictions on weapons, just eyeballing it.
Of course if you're just doing a dip @#$% knows where things can go.
Qaianna wrote: For what it's worth, I don't really like the idea of non-monks and non-brawlers trying to get kicks in to add to their usual weapon swinging, but that's more game concepts and thinking to keep those two classes unique rather than based on the holy RAW, praise be upon them.
Shields are already usable in two-weapon fighting; I think most of the sword-and-board guides I've read have suggested doing just that, to help with bashing.
That said, to do this with a monk or brawler, you're already sinking two feats that aren't really ones that those classes traditionally need, TWF and Shield Proficiency. (I'm not going to talk about dipping. Single class all the way!) Monks also get an extra penalty when holding a shield, losing things like 'his AC bonus, as well as his fast movement and flurry of blows abilities.'
For a monk or brawler, I'd really skip TWF. There's already evidence that if you're lugging around your favourite quarterstaff you can still use your legs for unarmed attacks, and at least then you've got a 6' pole to poke at things with. I think the only real benefit that TWF has for either class is to avoid flurry restrictions on weapons, just eyeballing it.
Of course if you're just doing a dip @#$% knows where things can go.
moms loses flurry.
so for a class with static bonuses to damage (i.e. Ubarbarian, sneak attacks, etc) then twf adds quite a bit of damage.
in my own example, twf moms/scout gets to charge, get 4 sneak attacks in without a requirment for flank or flat footed or etc, gets a +2att/+2damage to negate the twf penalty from brawling armor, gets an additional +2 to attack from charging and applies a -8 to enemy attack rolls that makes it super easy to parry the first hit for an extra riposte attack.
if he didn't have twf, that would be 2 attacks in, and basically cut 1/3 of his damage
(with haste he would charge at +17/+17/+17/+12/+12 for 1d4+3d6+8 and a riposte at +15 for another 1d4+8 @lvl8, which is enough to kill an average cr8 mob)
the thing that i don't know, is if i can use a shield while doing so, or if using twf with kicks and etc makes you lose the benefit of the buckler despite not using the actual hand that is wielding it.
shroudb wrote: Assuming you have a monk or a brawler with TWF. He is holding a shield on his one hand and making all of his twf attacks with kicks, headbuts, his other hand, etc
does he still gain the shield bonus to ac? or since he is using twf he is considered to be using "two hands of effort" so he doesn't actually use the shield?
A shield doesn't use a 'hand of effort' unless it's used in a shield bash. It therefor has no effect on attacks past taking up a physical hand. Nothing stops you from TWFing with a boulder helmet and spiked armor after having your arms removed.
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