It occurs to me that alot of popular vigilantes have abilities that come from more than one specialisation. In fact, many vigilantes often find that to gain an edge over their opponents, they NEED more than one specialisation. Part of being a vigilante is being versatile enough that after you find that one tactic doesn't work, you come back and take on the enemy again with a completely different tactic.
Some examples:
Batman: Stalker and Avenger
Spider-man: Stalker and Avenger
Luke Cage: Avenger...and maybe warlock?
Iron fist: Avenger and warlock/zealot
Darkwing Duck: Avenger and Stalker...and maybe some warlock for bombs? (This could also apply to Batman now that I think of it)
Moonknight: Avenger, Stalker and zealot
My suggestion is that the specialisation should define what the vigilante's core strategy is, but he should be allowed tap on other specialisations as well. The base ability and the limit on the number of cross-specialisation talents will ensure that the choice of specialisation still matters and helps define the character whilst still allowing interesting and varied vigilantes to be created.
I do note that exceptions would need to be made where a talent grants a weaker form of another specialisation's base ability (surprise attack being the main one that comes to mind). Apart from that, do you guys think this would be desirable, and would there be balance issues that arise?
Picking two would be the better option, really; very few characters of this type are as singularly focused as Paizo's vigilante.
Warlock/Zealot Vigilantes would be a (somewhat weak) version of the Theurge people have been clamoring for for a while. You'd have 6th level casting in one and 4th in the other, as well as the MADness that comes from depending on INT for Warlock casting and CHA for Zealot.
Picking two would be the better option, really; very few characters of this type are as singularly focused as Paizo's vigilante.
Warlock/Zealot Vigilantes would be a (somewhat weak) version of the Theurge people have been clamoring for for a while. You'd have 6th level casting in one and 4th in the other, as well as the MADness that comes from depending on INT for Warlock casting and CHA for Zealot.
My thought was that we could keep it flexible. So if every second talent could be a cross-specialisation talent, you could still build an avenger vigilante with an even mix of, say, combat and stealth talents. But you'd also have the flexibility of picking up a trick or two from the warlock or zealot paths whilst still remaining predominantly an avenger vigilante. I'm thinking Batman would have the avenger specialisation with several stalker and just a few warlock talents for bombs, for example. Darkwing Duck on the other hand would also be mainly an avenger, but with more warlock talents to get a diverse range of bombs (simulating his 'gas gun') and just a few stealth talents.
I was thinking that it might be a good idea to allow every second talent to be from a different specialisation, kinda like the shaman's wandering hex, but more permanent. This would reflect the diverse tactics that vigilantes often use to fight crime.
Being able to pick two specializations/origins or being able to pick up a small number of off-specialization/origin talents would really help a lot of concepts.
Being able to pick two or being able to pick up a small number of off-specialization/origin talents would really help a lot of concepts.
This is my point, but much more succinctly put. =)
Something along the lines of "You may pick talents from any specialisation, but at least half of your talents must be from your specialisation at any time. Some talents are exceptions to this rule and can only be taken by certain specialisations or cannot be taken by certain specialisations. This will be stated in the talent's descriptions when applicable."
If this goes ahead, I suspect that the most common mix will be avenger/stalker, but it wouldn't surprise me to see other variations.
I'm not sure it should be seen as a pitfall. It could rather be seen as a unique opportunity to create very varied ability combinations to accommodate a wide range of concepts! =D
I'm not too worried about a 3/4 BAB class getting access to spells (bards, magi, warpriests etc already get that). Furthermore, you actually won't be able to get spellcasting unless your primary specialisation is zealot or warlock because the base ability is the prerequisite for the higher spellcasting abilities. So you can't create, say, a full BAB class (avenger specialisation) with up to level 6 spells or full surprise attack progression. But you can create a full BAB class with bombs or a sneaky surprise-attacker with a trusty familiar and who stores items in magical tattoos. This inherent balance is another reason why I think it would be best to allow only 1 specialisation, but allow some cross-specialisation talents.
We dont have all of the talents so it's hard to say.
Has it been confirmed whether or not you can SA with mystic bolts?
Also, you're talking about level 20. Stuff gets crazy at that level anyway.
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You can SA with rays, so based on this it should apply.
For the purposes of the playtest, you can't use Arcane Strike with a mystic bolt. It counts as a weapon only for the purposes of Weapon Focus (mystic bolt) and works like a weapon in the basic ways it needs to to work with attack routines (you can use it with a full attack and can two-weapon fight with it and another weapon). Most other feats and abilities that work with weapons or give bonuses to weapon attacks (including Rapid Shot) can't affect mystic bolts. Basically, only if something would apply to a ray does it apply to a mystic bolt (including Improved Critical, etc.).
Even so, I am not worried about a 1d6+10d4+20 touch attack at level 20. Not when time stop became available to the wizard 3 levels ago. I'd also point out that many rogues can dish out that kind of damage or more against a flanked target at that level.
Are there foreseeable balance issues up to level, say, 13?