Natural Weapon definition


Rules Questions


I know this may seem like a dumb question, but what EXACTLY qualifies as a Natural Weapon?

The PRD has this in the first sentence under Natural Attacks:

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/monsters/universalMonsterRules.html wrote:


Most creatures possess one or more natural attacks (attacks made without a weapon)

and the chart shows this:

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/monsters/universalMonsterRules.html wrote:


Natural Attack
Bite
Claw
Gore
Hoof, Tentacle, Wing
Pincers, Tail Slap
Slam
Sting
Talons
Other

That would be all well and good for a list if it wasn't for that "Other" category. I never really thought much about it until I started making a transmuter and noticed that there are animals with "foreclaws" (Deinonychus: http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/monsters/dinosaur.html#dinosaur-deinonyc hus) which sound like claws but are considered secondary for that monster or spikes (Manticore: http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/monsters/manticore.html#manticore) and "eel darts" (Galvo: http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/bestiary4/galvo.html#galvo) which are ranged.

The different polymorph spells don't mention what natural attacks you get, just "you gain any of the natural attacks of the base creature, including proficiency in those attacks."

And what if the natural attack deals energy damage (the Galvo's bite does: 1d6+3 plus 2d6 electricity). Is that granted as well?

For reference, the d20 SRD has this definition for Natural Weapons:
"Natural weapons are weapons that are physically a part of a creature." That would include things like spikes and eel darts, but since that definition doesn't seem to be in Pathfinder, probably doesn't help much.

Any thoughts?


The PRD definition and the SRD definition are compatible, so use them both. You won't go wrong with it.

So if a manticore uses Magic Fang to improve its natural attacks, that helps it hit with its spikes. Deinonychus probably did nothing with its foreclaws beyond holding its food while it ate (now I'm picturing Deinonychus eating corn on the cob...) but if it wants to scratch things with those pathetic little claws when it had the big eviscerating toe on its primary claws, well, I suppose it could and that would be a natural attack. The Galvo's bite is definitely both an "attack made without a weapon" and "physically part of the Galvo" so I say yes, it's a natural attack even though it zaps it's poor (hopefully not grounded) prey.


haremlord wrote:


spikes (Manticore: http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/monsters/manticore.html#manticore)

quick note.

I keep mixing up "spikes" and "spines". Spikes is listed under Monstrous Physique IV, but spines (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/monstrous-humanoids/tikb alang Ranged 4 spines +14 (1d6+8)) is different.

Please ignore that part of my first post and replace it with the example above.

THANKS! :D

The Exchange Owner - D20 Hobbies

Is the weapon in the gear list or is it a supernatural ability? Then it may not be a natural weapon.


James Risner wrote:
Is the weapon in the gear list or is it a supernatural ability? Then it may not be a natural weapon.

But otherwise, it would be?


haremlord wrote:
James Risner wrote:
Is the weapon in the gear list or is it a supernatural ability? Then it may not be a natural weapon.
But otherwise, it would be?

If you can go to town and buy it, it's not a natural weapon. If you can pick it up off the ground and clobber your enemies with it, then it's not a natural weapon. If it's listed as a "special ability", then it's not a natural weapon.

But if it's listed in the melee/ranged attacks section and the creature was (likely) born with this ability, then it's probably a natural attack.

Especially if it meets both definitions you quoted in your OP:
"attack made without a weapon"
"physically part of the creature"


DM_Blake wrote:

If it's listed as a "special ability", then it's not a natural weapon.

But if it's listed in the melee/ranged attacks section and the creature was (likely) born with this ability, then it's probably a natural attack.

I get you up to this point. A lot of the examples I've seen are both (listed under Special Ability and in the Melee/Ranged attack section).

For example, Spines (in my above example for the Tikbalang) are defined in the "Special Abilities" section and under ranged. Same with the pukwudgie (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/monstrous-humanoids/pukw udgie) who has quills, which are defined under the Special Abilities section and ranged.

But a Pufferfish (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/animals/fish/fish-puffer fish) you would get the poison ability (assuming a high enough version of Beast Shape) but not the Spines since they are not listed as a melee or ranged attack, but as a Defensive Ability and described under the Special Abilities, right?

The Exchange Owner - D20 Hobbies

At my table and my interpretation of RAW:
Tikbalang's Spines are natural weapons
Pukwudgie's Quills are natural weapons
Pufferfish's hazard are not natural weapons

Only the Poison of Pufferfish would you gain when Wild Shaping.

You wouldn't gain the ability Spines (Ex) from Tikbalang so attacking with them wouldn't be an option from Polymorph.

Same issue with Quills (Ex). You wouldn't gain that ability in polymorph.

Another Example:
Carnivorous Crystal
You would get the slams but wouldn't get Razor Sharp (Ex) so their threat range wouldn't be improved with polymorph.


Okay, so your ruling is that they ARE natural weapons (so a Tikbalang's spines could benefit from an amulet of natural attacks or taking Improved Natural Attack (Spine)) but they aren't granted as part of the polymorph spell because they are defined under the Special Abilities section.

Are there any ranged natural attacks that aren't listed as special abilities?

The Exchange Owner - D20 Hobbies

Rock from Argus?
Thrown Skull from ChaneQue?

All from the first few pages of the book I had open.


James Risner wrote:

Rock from Argus?

Thrown Skull from ChaneQue?

All from the first few pages of the book I had open.

Argus has "Rock Throwing" so that isn't a natural attack.

While the Chaneque's thrown skull _might_ meet the qualification (mentioned under the attacks but not under the special abilities section), the section for Steal Soul says: "As a ranged attack, a chaneque can pelt an opponent with a ritually prepared, soul-stealing fey skull." That seems to me that it is not a natural attack since it is a "ritually prepared" skull.


It sounds like I may be the only one confused by this, so I may be overthinking it and falling into a "but what about..." spiral.

Thanks for your help everyone :)

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