Going from 4 to 5 players


Pathfinder Adventure Path General Discussion


Hello everyone, I am currently running a campaign that was pre-made and it was constructed for 4 players and we are adding a 5th player. I am worried that the pre-made encounters will be under powered due to the extra player. I am also worried that if i simply add another monster to the encounter it will up the CR and be too difficult for the players. If i add an additional creature to each encounter that is the same CR of the current creatures already in the encounter, and I do that for every encounter, I'm worried that the players won't be able to finish dungeons that are meant for one run through with one run through. Also i don't want bosses to become too trivial. If a boss goes from taking 4 hits per round to 5 hits per round that will greatly shorten the battle and cause it to be less exciting and I don't want this to happen. I want to provide my players with a challenging campaign that is fun for everyone.

How much should I up the CR of the encounter to balance this 5th player? for trash and for bosses.

THANKS!!


It depends on several factors.

What classes are currently being played?

What levels are these characters at?

How skilled are the players?

Does the new player start with magic or the like, or just basic equipment even at a higher level?

One thing I've done with a group of five is not increase treasure found. You could also not increase XPs, which means the group will in time be one level below what is suggested.

If the group is below level 5, you can probably get away without adding any new monsters or the like. After that, you might consider maxing out hit points for the foes as that will help a little. And by not giving more XPs or treasure out, things will end up balancing.


okay that sounds good to me. Thanks for the help!!


Another option for you that I use often with big bosses is to slap the advanced template on them with max hp. While this technically ups the CR if you are worried about your party over-leveling you can just award the original XP for the creature.

Another trick I have taken to in my Way of the Wicked campaign (which my PCs are over-wealthed and over-powered in but that is all on me) is I typically use potions and oils to boost creatures as it helps increase their stats and abilities while not adding more loot to the treasure piles. For bosses the advanced template, max hp, and a potion of bear's endurance (if they don't already have an enhancement bonus to CON) can help with the action economy of the increased number.


The problem with a fifth or sixth player has more to do with the action economy. Players get an extra two actions because of that extra player. So you can do things like use Slow spells to remove action economy or add a couple minions to help even the odds. Zombies and other undead often don't work because they are Cleric speedbumps. But Summon Monster can often add a foe or two to even things out and should be there right when the combat begins.

Also? Have the boss-level encounter pre-buffed unless the players have done something specific to avoid being heard or detected and succeeded in this.


The game as written is supposed to support a party of 4-5 players. When you add a sixth is when you should start treating it as APL+1 and add +1 CR to your encounters. If you think they're already pushing the boundaries of APL+1 due to high magic or stats or what have you then do as you see fit, of course.

Acquisitives

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

An added environmental effect is pretty easy to throw onto the party as well.


Bosses specifically should always have additional minions in a fight to help their action economy. 1 turn vs 4 or 5 is just always boring and unbalanced. Either the boss has to one shot someone on it's turn or use an TPK aoe, or it's not threatening.

One way is just adding minions (generally not summoned as those used in combat are way to easy to interrupt plus take it's already limited action economy) or to give the boss dual initiative, even if it's not a mythic game.

Seriously, Dual Init is amazing for bosses and I wish I had thought of it as a homebrew thing before mythic came out because it's soooo good.

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