GMing experience


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The Green Tea Gamer wrote:

I wonder if this is the appropriate place to ask this, but is anyone else annoyed when they, as a GM, spend a lot of their personal time preparing for game day, and a player (or four) shows up having done absolutely, positively, diddly squat in the intervening time, especially if they gained enough exp for a level and were supposed to level up between sessions, or go shopping between sessions, or make a major decision between sessions, and now you have to wait while they get all that done during table time?

That annoys the living crap out of me, especially when I'm a GM, but even as a player, I look at the others like, "Dude, that guy works his butt off to let us have fun, and you can't even level up in a week's time, you lazy bastard? Oh, but you had time to post on Facebook about how you were out at the bar until 4am pumping drinks into a skank that walked out with another dude? I hate you."

My gamers just simply don't respond to "inbetween game" correspondence. Between sessions I ask about planning next adventures, making magic items, leveling, etc. No one replies and then we hit the table next and my players are like "wait... where were we?"

I've never punished them, but I have had the conversation telling them it annoys me. People get busy, especially at the age and responsibility level of my players. On the other hand they cry about not having wealth by level despite having free skill ranks in professions, Downtime lasting days to weeks at a time, and at least one of my current PCs has a free crafting feat (Scribe Scroll). I've even told them I'm using the Ultimate Campaign Downtime rules; crafting would be EVEN CHEAPER.

I don't punish them. I just keep running the lean game I was before. If they don't read my emails, get the cue to scribe a dozen scrolls, and then they run out of spells 4 rooms into the dungeon and have to flee complaining they got no loot again... that's not really my fault entirely.


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And this is why I chuckle when I read on the boards how players put forth as much or more effort than a GM. I wonder where this magical place is and if there is free candy, if the skies are filled with rainbows and there is laughter everywhere.

I mean, I have a life too, I have responsibilities and a desire to do other things too, and somehow I manage to prepare for the game as a GM.


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We have some players who don't do much between sessions and others who do a lot.

It doesn't really bother me - I try to run the game the players want. If they want a relaxed pace where they do "admin" as a group, well so be it.


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I'm sorry, but if you don't have an hour or so over the course of an entire week to do some player homework, you've got some serious time management issues that need to be addressed. Since I doubt these players have two full time jobs and a secret second family they spend time with, I'm calling laziness.

I did some math a while back and found out with a full time job, church twice a week, 9 hours a night of sleep, and ten hours a week to run errands, I still would have about 40 hours a week of free time. Too busy to do player prep work my @$$.

EDIT - For those of you wondering:

168 Hours in a week
-63 Sleep
-40 Work
-10 Errands
-5 Commute
-4 Church
= 44 Hours free time.

Even a major hobby doesn't take more than 10/week. Family obligations? 15/week for most people is pretty dedicated, and still with both of those you've got like 20 hours.

Nope. People are lazy, not "too busy".


thegreenteagamer wrote:
I'm sorry, but if you don't have an hour or so over the course of an entire week to do some player homework, you've got some serious time management issues that need to be addressed. Since I doubt these players have two full time jobs and a secret second family they spend time with, I'm calling laziness.

I'm just calling that they'd rather do something else.


Steve Geddes wrote:
thegreenteagamer wrote:
I'm sorry, but if you don't have an hour or so over the course of an entire week to do some player homework, you've got some serious time management issues that need to be addressed. Since I doubt these players have two full time jobs and a secret second family they spend time with, I'm calling laziness.
I'm just calling that they'd rather do something else.

Isn't that what laziness is? When you don't want to do something you should, that you're perfectly capable of, and decide not to?


thegreenteagamer wrote:
Steve Geddes wrote:
thegreenteagamer wrote:
I'm sorry, but if you don't have an hour or so over the course of an entire week to do some player homework, you've got some serious time management issues that need to be addressed. Since I doubt these players have two full time jobs and a secret second family they spend time with, I'm calling laziness.
I'm just calling that they'd rather do something else.
Isn't that what laziness is? When you don't want to do something you're perfectly capable of, and decide not to?

Not really. I'm not playing volleyball today, but it's not because I'm too lazy.


Ah, I just saw your edit:

Quote:
Isn't that what laziness is? When you don't want to do something you should, that you're perfectly capable of, and decide not to?

As I said, I don't think it's a matter of "should" - some people like doing RPG admin stuff between sessions, others like doing it as a group. I'm happy to let the players work out what suits them best.


Well, my group has limited time to play, and most of us prefer to get the stuff that don't require us all together done outside of that limit. If 3/4 players show up with shopping and leveling done, and 1 is like "I don't feel like it", they're lazy and inconsiderate. It's a different story if the ratio was opposite.


Yeah, I agree. It's like all of those social things - how much chit-chat, how many monty python quotes, how much internet surfing, how much ambient noise....how much work do we do between sessions.

The group needs to work something out and everyone needs to respect it. If there's one person blatantly breaking those social conventions, they're being annoying.


Mark Hoover wrote:
My gamers just simply don't respond to "inbetween game" correspondence. Between sessions I ask about planning next adventures, making magic items, leveling, etc. No one replies and then we hit the table next and my players are like "wait... where were we?"

Man, I hear you on that! I had an account on Obsidian Portal and would spend hours posting information, pics, histories, back story information on main NPC's, i.e. tons of work, and show up for gaming with people looking at me blankly when I'd reference something I had put up. The first few times, okay - but when it became apparent people were not availing themselves of it, I was both hurt and annoyed. I finally cancelled my account and stopped doing all the recording and recounting what transpired for them.

Dark Archive

Gaming for 35 years where in the beginning I got to be a player more frequently, been GMing for the same amount of time.

I love being a DM/GM - but it would be nice to be able to play once in a while. Last game was more than a few years ago and I had a blast.

--------------------
As far as "in between sessions" stuff - pretty much all of my players are older family guys that are busy or would have a hard time cracking open a book and telling their wives/gfs - "I'm working on my character!" - when they are supposed to be doing other more responsible things. The women in our lives pretty much just tolerate gaming - it's a hard concept to run past people telling them that you meet with the same group of guys, twice a month for 20+ years.

Just not going to happen. May have years ago when we were younger, now we just take care of the updates/leveling/etc, when we get together.

I am currently running a game of my own creation (based off of an updated version of Gamma World III - 86 ed) and I have all the players on group texts with updates to the rules, skill system, mutations, CharGen ideas - etc. The more technically proficient players sometimes give me feedback but all of them are at least familiar with ideas and changes I make in between sessions.

Also, because it's a game of my own creation, its a little harder for them to do anything in between sessions because the rules are getting updated almost everyday (when I actively writing).

------------------------
Back to the ops original question (the second part):
I like creating plots, ideas for adventure and NPC foes - so GMing for me was a better outlet for my creativity than being a player. To restate though, I would love to get more regular time in as a player.


Otherwhere wrote:
Man, I hear you on that! I had an account on Obsidian Portal and would spend hours posting information, pics, histories, back story information on main NPC's, i.e. tons of work, and show up for gaming with people looking at me blankly when I'd reference something I had put up. The first few times, okay - but when it became apparent people were not availing themselves of it, I was both hurt and annoyed. I finally cancelled my account and stopped doing all the recording and recounting what transpired for them.

My group had an Obsidian Portal account, too. No one used it but me. I quit bothering with it years ago.

Sovereign Court

Sometimes I'm happy that I'm unmarried and have no kids.

Grand Lodge

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Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Pathfinder Accessories, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I'm incredibly happy to have married someone who has been GMing longer than I have been playing.

Sovereign Court

TriOmegaZero wrote:
I'm incredibly happy to have married someone who has been GMing longer than I have been playing.

I'm happy for you. Such things are rare.


My wife's super cool:-)


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DungeonmasterCal wrote:
Otherwhere wrote:
Man, I hear you on that! I had an account on Obsidian Portal and would spend hours posting information, pics, histories, back story information on main NPC's, i.e. tons of work, and show up for gaming with people looking at me blankly when I'd reference something I had put up. The first few times, okay - but when it became apparent people were not availing themselves of it, I was both hurt and annoyed. I finally cancelled my account and stopped doing all the recording and recounting what transpired for them.
My group had an Obsidian Portal account, too. No one used it but me. I quit bothering with it years ago.

We should start a support group. I'm in the same boat.

Sovereign Court

Muad'Dib wrote:
DungeonmasterCal wrote:
Otherwhere wrote:
Man, I hear you on that! I had an account on Obsidian Portal and would spend hours posting information, pics, histories, back story information on main NPC's, i.e. tons of work, and show up for gaming with people looking at me blankly when I'd reference something I had put up. The first few times, okay - but when it became apparent people were not availing themselves of it, I was both hurt and annoyed. I finally cancelled my account and stopped doing all the recording and recounting what transpired for them.
My group had an Obsidian Portal account, too. No one used it but me. I quit bothering with it years ago.
We should start a support group. I'm in the same boat.

Me too. And to think that I ever devoted my time to extra world information...


I started an Obsidian Portal for our campaign and told the players that if they filled in their backstory, that they could level one session early. We're using the group level method rather than assigning XP, so I saw this as a good time to get them to put some more thought into their characters.


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My wife started gaming because she got tired of being left at home. Now she plays regularly in one of my groups every week and she enjoys it. You should see her reaction when she crits. You'd think she won the lottery. Its so cool. :-D

The only thing that I get razzed for is buying excessive amounts of gaming material...

Community Manager

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Removed some unnecessary and fighty posts. This is not the thread to discuss marital issues, perceived or otherwise.


I reward my players for interacting with our Obsidian Portal campaign. If they write a journal entry or comment on something on the wiki, I give their character an extra session-use Hero Point.

Otherwise, no one pays any attention to it.

The Exchange

I think, as a rule, GMs are more invested in their campaigns than the players are. It's only natural.

Me, when we have month long breaks in sessions and the players all show up remembering the name of that NPC from two adventures ago in the campaign, I'm grateful. Ocassionally I write something extra but don't really take offense if nobody reads it. I'm doing it for my own enjoyment first anyway. The way I see it, it's the players doing me the favor for wanting to play a game that I run, not me doing a favor for them. I *like* doing GM prep work.


Lord Snow wrote:

I think, as a rule, GMs are more invested in their campaigns than the players are. It's only natural.

Me, when we have month long breaks in sessions and the players all show up remembering the name of that NPC from two adventures ago in the campaign, I'm grateful. Ocassionally I write something extra but don't really take offense if nobody reads it. I'm doing it for my own enjoyment first anyway. The way I see it, it's the players doing me the favor for wanting to play a game that I run, not me doing a favor for them. I *like* doing GM prep work.

I would backflip in joy if my players paid that kind of attention. Half the time I have to get them to roll int or wis checks to remember something I told them a week ago.

The Exchange

thegreenteagamer wrote:
Lord Snow wrote:

I think, as a rule, GMs are more invested in their campaigns than the players are. It's only natural.

Me, when we have month long breaks in sessions and the players all show up remembering the name of that NPC from two adventures ago in the campaign, I'm grateful. Ocassionally I write something extra but don't really take offense if nobody reads it. I'm doing it for my own enjoyment first anyway. The way I see it, it's the players doing me the favor for wanting to play a game that I run, not me doing a favor for them. I *like* doing GM prep work.

I would backflip in joy if my players paid that kind of attention. Half the time I have to get them to roll int or wis checks to remember something I told them a week ago.

I won't ever tell them that or it will go to their head.

Dark Archive

It's a mixed bag for my group - three guys take meticulous notes, while one just focuses on being a complete nutball (which makes for good times for the whole group) and the last player takes no notes, has a terrible memory but then will then recall an obscure name from several years back (IRL) and come up with some crazy accurate theories on the bad guy or hidden threat.

I tried writing the long background/world write up and gave up on that being a requirement to play many, many years ago. I (for myself at least) write this information up just for myself - getting the background together and looking at it to find new ways to create new scenarios, threats or even just ways to incorporate the past of the world that is in small (and tolerable) bite-sized pieces for the players.


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Once again to the Wizard of TOZ: based on your posts I imagine you looking EXACTLY like your avatar, though I suppose I figure you're pointing a Buddy Jesus finger at me instead of a sword, but still.

You are blessed man. You need to start a gratitude journal if you don't have one already. If you ever decide to run a seminar on how to achieve awesomeness just send me the invite and I'll figure out how to be there.

By contrast my wife has no interest in playing these games. She plays board games with me once in a while, but that's about it. My kids were into it for a while, but then they both decided they wanted to be "cool" so over the last several months that ship has sailed.

One daughter even let slip that I still have a red cloak hanging in my closet for Rennaisance Faire visits. Oh yeah, now to all the neighborhood kids I'm "that guy." I'm hoping it keeps them OFF my lawn rather then bringing more of them in.

To the thread though I'm once again in the Auxmaulous camp. I love creating and being the GM is a great outlet for that. One thing I love even more though is not knowing what's coming next. I know or have an idea of what encounters to work into tonight's session, but otherwise I just show up, recap where we left off and hand everything over to the players.

I make a random roll for some minor piece of set dressing like a weather event, piece of terrain or maybe a minor encounter. Thankfully I've got players who like to think out loud. I pull that rip chord and watch them debate the whys of what I just dropped on the table, then the game spins off in some random direction. Bliss!

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Pathfinder Accessories, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I need to go Google a gratitude journal. Sounds like a real positive activity for me.

Dark Archive

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Had a funny "go with it" situation arise in my last Gamma World playtest game night. The characters are low level, armed with crap (xbows, short bows, spears, etc) so they are always on the look out for better weapons or even ancient tech gear while they are on their quest.

So they are exploring a small ruined town, checking some rubble of what's left of a few houses and some businesses. In one of the buildings they find the skeletal remains of an expired mutant (killed by some rubble spiders) - on the body they find some keys and the rest of his gear. No big deal. They fight the rubble spiders in an insane battle for a low level fight with players falling into walls (and almost through them) with a constant threat of the building collapsing (made their luck checks).

Another house over they find a very well hidden cache of survival gear and small locked strong box (they rolled the highest difficulty while searching). Now there are no potions in GW, but there are plenty of fragile items - so they are trying to figure out how to get it open or pick it without damaging the contents. When I wrote the building/loot up, I put the lock in as a challenge - did anyone get lockpicking, is there another way to open it without destroying the contents, etc. Basically a reward for those who invested the right skills or creative problem solving.

One of the players says - "why don't we check the keys we found on that skeleton?"

So I think to myself - "damn, I should have wrote that into the module".
I had them roll luck checks (easy) to see if the mutant had stashed the box before he got killed - they made the check and one of the keys worked. Inside they found a dose of Antitoxin and an Accelera Dose (like a potion of healing, works over a few rounds though) and some New Skin patches (healing for light injuries). So a good find of tech healing (all new to them) and all of it was intact. As a bonus they got a sturdy strong box and its key.

Sometimes the players string together good ideas because they see things from their pov - which is always a nice thing to have when writing (and then re-writing) adventures.


I played some of the Original Gamma world stuff back in the 80s. Great fun!

The Exchange

I'm one of those players (when I'm in play mode) who are maybe a little too zealous about out of game homework, I find that when I try to tell people to start thinking of what they want to roll up and stuff, people just tell me to stop being so intense, and try to chill and relax a bit. Or they call me bossy.

These days I'm trying not to rush GMs and players when we're out of game...


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Auxmaulous wrote:

Had a funny "go with it" situation arise in my last Gamma World playtest game night. The characters are low level, armed with crap (xbows, short bows, spears, etc) so they are always on the look out for better weapons or even ancient tech gear while they are on their quest.

So they are exploring a small ruined town, checking some rubble of what's left of a few houses and some businesses. In one of the buildings they find the skeletal remains of an expired mutant (killed by some rubble spiders) - on the body they find some keys and the rest of his gear. No big deal. They fight the rubble spiders in an insane battle for a low level fight with players falling into walls (and almost through them) with a constant threat of the building collapsing (made their luck checks).

Another house over they find a very well hidden cache of survival gear and small locked strong box (they rolled the highest difficulty while searching). Now there are no potions in GW, but there are plenty of fragile items - so they are trying to figure out how to get it open or pick it without damaging the contents. When I wrote the building/loot up, I put the lock in as a challenge - did anyone get lockpicking, is there another way to open it without destroying the contents, etc. Basically a reward for those who invested the right skills or creative problem solving.

One of the players says - "why don't we check the keys we found on that skeleton?"

So I think to myself - "damn, I should have wrote that into the module".
I had them roll luck checks (easy) to see if the mutant had stashed the box before he got killed - they made the check and one of the keys worked. Inside they found a dose of Antitoxin and an Accelera Dose (like a potion of healing, works over a few rounds though) and some New Skin patches (healing for light injuries). So a good find of tech healing (all new to them) and all of it was intact. As a bonus they got a sturdy strong box and its key.

Sometimes the players string together good ideas because they see...

When you said "keys" I thought you were having an Oprah moment and giving them a car!


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So with advice from Aux and DM Cal (thank you both by the way) I'm trying to wrangle a self-imposed project: 30 days, 30 encounters.

The idea is that I have a low level game and my players and I both seem to work best when the world is kind of open-ended. My players like to talk about what might be going on and I like riffing off of them, but this kind of play needs solid encounter ideas prepped so you can drop in action at a moment's notice.

So far this project has spun off into creative spirals side-tracking me from the actual encounters. I am trying to get disciplined though. The hope is that I can produce 30 low level (CR 1/2 - CR 6) encounters with ideas on how to drop them into multiple terrains, motivations for the villains beyond "murder... eat..." and maybe even some thoughts on how they can be resolved without resorting to combat.

One I've used for a long time is the Goblin Fey Hunters. It's a CR 2 - 4 encounter depending on how many goblins are in the encounter and their NPC classes. The idea though is simple; when encountered the goblins aren't looking to ambush the PCs. The creatures are armed with weapons, sure, but also a mancatcher sized for capturing Tiny sized creatures, a butterfly net (Reach weapon targeting Touch AC; victim is Entangled) and in possession of a cold-iron masterwork lantern (a pixie prison).

This can obviously be dropped into a lot of wilderness environments. If adding it to rugged, hilly terrain they might be hunting for a korred in which case the lantern might be a wood-and-iron cart/cage; if underground maybe they're hunting mites and have bug spray (some minor irritant with a DC 12 Fort save). The concept here is that the goblins will certainly fight, kill and eat the PCs, but if the characters want they can try to direct the goblins toward fey (real or from a Bluff check) to end the encounter without combat. Heck if they roll really well they might even be able to barter with the Fey Hunters; I usually include an adept or even a PC caster type with some scrolls. The characters might exchange info or something useful to hunting the fey in exchange for a scroll spell.

More than just random tables, I like having thoughtful encounters prepped ahead of time like this. Players in my game slowly learn that with me behind the screens not every monster is just a loot bag with teeth or weapons. Hopefully then they use that knowledge to interact with encounters and piece together what's really going on. When immersion happens I get engaged players; that's one of my ultimate goals.

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