So i was thoroughly dissuaded from Mystic Theurge so i'm looking into a backup plan.
I'm wanting to play a Gunslinger with spells who does more gun with spells added on.
I looked into Spellslinger and was somewhat interested in the class but I was somewhat dissinterested in being 100% caster without doing much with the gun.
Myrmadarch looked interesting for a few reasons.
1. Ranged Spellstrike (kinda like Arcane gun but lets me full round multi-ray spells later).
2. Can use black blade archetype and technically get a unbreakable weapon by taking Pistol dagger (as its a double weapon and the dagger portion qualifies it).
The only downside is spell combat does work unless i do melee combat with the dagger (assumedly as a last resort).
So recommendations, on how to build this?
Myrmidarch is a broken archetype. There's actually no way, mechanically, to use Ranged Spellstrike to fire multiple rays in the same round. The actions don't line up.
"at 11th level, a myrmidarch using a multiple-target spell with this ability may deliver one ray or line of effect with each attack when using a full-attack action, up to the maximum allowed by the spell (in the case of ray effects). Any effects not used in the round the spell is cast are lost."
I'm wanting to play a Gunslinger with spells who does more gun with spells added on.
I looked into Spellslinger and was somewhat interested in the class but I was somewhat dissinterested in being 100% caster without doing much with the gun.
Spellslinger is a mechanically weak version of a wizard, with a cool-sounding ability with a gun which isn't worth bothering with most of the time.
I wrote a guide, it's on Zenith's list of guides (look in the advice forum).
My 'recommended' spellslinger build is 5 levels of gunslinger, 5 levels of spellslinger, and the rest in eldritch knight. This makes a very good ranged attacker who also has decent backup spells. Functionally, it is the arcane equivalent of multiclassing a gunslinger5 into inquisitor.
I have no experience with the magus, but it's probably better.
Ok, so been looking.
Would black balde myrmadarch with 2 levels in picaroon swashbuckler potentially work?
Edit:
Nope, won't work as it says it has to be "light/1h weapon in ONE and gun in OTHER" so pistol dagger wouldn't count as same hand.
Myrmidarch is a broken archetype. There's actually no way, mechanically, to use Ranged Spellstrike to fire multiple rays in the same round. The actions don't line up."at 11th level, a myrmidarch using a multiple-target spell with this ability may deliver one ray or line of effect with each attack when using a full-attack action, up to the maximum allowed by the spell (in the case of ray effects). Any effects not used in the round the spell is cast are lost."Right.
Now, keeping in mind that spells typically have a standard action casting time and that you can't hold the charge on ranged touch spells so they must be fired in the same action that the spell is cast, what's the action sequence that allows you to use that ability?
I'll have to discuss with my DM but i'd assume it means to have them rolled into one action. as normal spellstrike does claim "as part of casting this spell" in the wording one could infir that instead of a free action it modifies the action into a full action.
2nd interpretation would be it assumes liberal use of quicken magic rods and quicken metamagic. As i assume a class feature doens't require extra feats/magic items to work period I think i could argue with my DM that the 1st interpretation is fair.
(have to make many assumptions on this just like assumptions with advanced firearms and certain reloading feats and how i don't think till this day there's been a FAQ on that).
Quicken doesn't actually work; you'd have to fire your rays as part of the Swift Action.
It requires GM fiat to work, because by RAW there's nothing about rolling them into the same action-- the writer just didn't understand how the various abilities work. If you can get that, cool, if not... I'd go Spellslinger 1/Arcanist X
Why Arcanist out of curiosity?
Why Arcanist out of curiosity?Quicken doesn't actually work; you'd have to fire your rays as part of the Swift Action.
It requires GM fiat to work, because by RAW there's nothing about rolling them into the same action-- the writer just didn't understand how the various abilities work. If you can get that, cool, if not... I'd go Spellslinger 1/Arcanist X
Or Sorcerer if you prefer. Whatever caster really
But Spellslinger's abilities apply to any spell you cast, while its drawbacks of forbidden schools apply only to Wizard. So mechanically, you're best off sacrificing the spell level and then going to another class, that way you still have all your spells open.
I kinda want to go more gun than spell.
How bad of an idea would it be to do 10 myrmadarch 10 eldritch knight then? Kinda sidesteps the lvl 11 insanity to lose a spell level to gain spell critical and some extra bonus combat feats?
Ok, so now the only part not 100% certain what it means
"At 4th level, a myrmidarch can use spellstrike to cast a single-target touch attack ranged spell and deliver it through a ranged weapon attack. "
Does this mean i can cast a single target attack with a range of touch.
or
does this mean i can only cast single target "ranged touch" spells
or is it all-encompassing on any spell that does does a touch attack? "Even if the spell can normally affect multiple targets, only a single missile, ray, or effect accompanies the attack."
guess i'm trying to determine if the character has to wait until 11 to deliver ray spells without close range or if the character can use line spells like "lightning bolt"
(as the more i look at it i might go ahead with Spellsinger 1/Any other caster X or spellsinger 5/gunslinger 5/eldritch knight if i have to wait until 11 to actually use that all my ranged spells through it
Ok, so now the only part not 100% certain what it means
"At 4th level, a myrmidarch can use spellstrike to cast a single-target touch attack ranged spell and deliver it through a ranged weapon attack. "
Does this mean i can cast a single target attack with a range of touch.
or
does this mean i can only cast single target "ranged touch" spellsor is it all-encompassing on any spell that does does a touch attack? "Even if the spell can normally affect multiple targets, only a single missile, ray, or effect accompanies the attack."
guess i'm trying to determine if the character has to wait until 11 to deliver ray spells without close range or if the character can use line spells like "lightning bolt"
(as the more i look at it i might go ahead with Spellsinger 1/Any other caster X or spellsinger 5/gunslinger 5/eldritch knight if i have to wait until 11 to actually use that all my ranged spells through it
Sorry about posting twice om a row but i'm not finding a huge amount of info clarifying the wording on this one.
I see some posts mentioning from people that it works with shocking grasp at range and others that mention ranged touch attack spells, but its somewhat inconsistent as there's also an equal amount of posts i see where people seemed to assume the archetype changed spell combat to work with ranged weapon attacks.
Ranged Spellstrike has three clauses; "single target", "touch attack" and "ranged spell". All three have to be met. So Disintegrate works, Ray of Frost works, but Shocking Grasp isn't ranged (Reach Shocking Grasp works though) and Lightning Bolt isn't a touch attack.
Also, Kazaan, Myrmidarch actually has the default Spellstrike too. I'd forgotten about it for a long time, but it's there.
And Quickened doesn't work, because as soon as you cast the spell you have to fire all of your Scorching Rays or what have you. By the time you get to your full attack action you have no rays to fire.
Really the only way it works is to assume that at level 11 Ranged Spellstrike also turns into Ranged Spell Combat, which is... a stretch.
It should work, and a GM can easily houserule it to work, but by the default it doesn't.
I talked with my GM and they ruled that this is the way it works.
as it says "Full attack action" it means that as part of casting the spell it turns the spell into a full attack action.You can fire 1 Ray for each iterative attack that your BAB allows up to the maximum number of rays you're allowed to fire.
That said i'm somewhat torn on doing Myrmadarch now as i'm not sure which is better, ranged spellstrike or arcane gun from spellslinger as arcane gun won't have the same range limitations to stay a touch attack as firearms do (which if i want to have a backup option of spell combat a pistol dagger is my best bet which has a base range increment of 10.
Technically, the Spell Combat - Haste FAQ allows Spell Combat to count as the full attack action for any feat, spell or ability that requires such.
Of course, you still need to be wielding only a one handed melee weapon for Spell Combat, so i hope you invested in a Pistol Sword Cane!
...what about Spellslinger 1/Myrmidarch X if you want both abilities?
Maybe, i was thinking it might be a bit pointless, but it could work. Arcane gun for things outside of range and spellstrike for whats in range. Then finally multi-hit spells through spell-strike again later. (as well as spell combat/normal spellstrike with the dagger or sword-cane part of the pistol dagger or sword cane whatever i decide to go with in case the enemy gets too close).
I might go ahead and do that. Just in case first though i'm going to double-check the Magu's spell list to be sure i'll actually have anything worthwhile casting with the gun or if i'm going to have to abuse the Reach metamagic a lot.
How does the Reach Spell metamagic fit in all this? Something like a Quickened Reach Chill Touch would be a lot closer to working with Ranged Spellstrike. If it works, which I think it does, you should be able to cast your spell as a swift getting one free spellstrike from casting and then full attack should get about 4 more (2 from BAB, 1 from Rapid Shot, 1 from Haste) before the charge fades. While it isn't the damage output of Scorching Ray it is a decent way to add negative energy damage and potentially strength damage to a full attack. It pretty much requires a lesser quicken rod to work though, so uh you might need a tail or Quick Draw + Gun Twirling or something to get it going.
How does the Reach Spell metamagic fit in all this? Something like a Quickened Reach Chill Touch would be a lot closer to working with Ranged Spellstrike. If it works, which I think it does, you should be able to cast your spell as a swift getting one free spellstrike from casting and then full attack should get about 4 more (2 from BAB, 1 from Rapid Shot, 1 from Haste) before the charge fades. While it isn't the damage output of Scorching Ray it is a decent way to add negative energy damage and potentially strength damage to a full attack. It pretty much requires a lesser quicken rod to work though, so uh you might need a tail or Quick Draw + Gun Twirling or something to get it going.
I remember a large portion of magus spells being touch spells hence why i mentioned using the Reach metamagic to allow it to use stuff such a "shocking grasp" and later vampiric touch at range.