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What feats work with Kinetic Blast?


Rules Questions


I'd like to know what feats interact or work with Kinetic Blast, I'm a bit confused since most obvious feats like "rapid shot" state that they work with a "weapon" por example, or stuff like Weapon Focus, etc.
Thanks.

Grand Lodge

To be answered when Occult Adventures comes out.

To my knowledge, the ability in the play test lacked the wording to make it count as a weapon for feats.

However, I have heard it was intended to work as a weapon for various feats.


Definitely not Rapid shot because you don't take full attacks. Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization, Improved Critical, etc., those feats are intended to work with it, but yeah, you'll have to wait for the final version since it remained totally unclear throughout the playtest and repeatedly asked about.


1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

Vital Strike:
Kinetic Blast is a spell-like ability and that means Standard Action. No 'attack action' available to it.
For the Playtest Version, Vital Strike currently works for kinetic blade/whip because they're made as part of attack or full-attack actions, and not an action themselves. Finalized version of the book will have specific wording NOT ALLOWING it to work anymore.

Weapon Focus, Power Attack, Weapon Finesse:
Yes. That would entail stuff like Weapon Specialization or other weapon specific feats like Improved Critical or Greater Weapon Focus/Specialization ought to work; from the Core rulebook anyways, newer feats out their are just gonna be weird and better not to try applying it til it gets clarified in the final book.

Rapid Shot, Deadly Aim, Haste, Snap Shot
Only Deadly Aim works in this list. Kinetic Blast is a spell-like ability (standard action_ and doesn't grant 'full-attack actions'. Deadly Aim only works for the non-touch AC targeting blasts though.


Protoman wrote:

Vital Strike:

Kinetic Blast is a spell-like ability and that means Standard Action. No 'attack action' available to it.
For the Playtest Version, Vital Strike currently works for kinetic blade/whip because they're made as part of attack or full-attack actions, and not an action themselves. Finalized version of the book will have specific wording NOT ALLOWING it to work anymore.

Weapon Focus, Power Attack, Weapon Finesse:
Yes. That would entail stuff like Weapon Specialization or other weapon specific feats like Improved Critical or Greater Weapon Focus/Specialization ought to work; from the Core rulebook anyways, newer feats out their are just gonna be weird and better not to try applying it til it gets clarified in the final book.

Rapid Shot, Deadly Aim, Haste, Snap Shot
Only Deadly Aim works in this list. Kinetic Blast is a spell-like ability (standard action_ and doesn't grant 'full-attack actions'. Deadly Aim only works for the non-touch AC targeting blasts though.

Man, you can't do ANYTHING fun with Vital Strike, can you? And people wonder why nobody takes it except that one druid build.

Deadly Aim only working with the non-touch blasts? I don't see that coming up much unless the Kineticist gets an accuracy boost, a primary criticism of the non-touch blasts was that they weren't super-accurate as it was and increasing your to-hit with them was a major pain.


Blackwaltzomega wrote:
Deadly Aim only working with the non-touch blasts? I don't see that coming up much unless the Kineticist gets an accuracy boost, a primary criticism of the non-touch blasts was that they weren't super-accurate as it was and increasing your to-hit with them was a major pain.

No, that was pretty well debunked with both math and testing. The first attack for just about every 3/4 class hits easily, it's the iteratives that miss a lot. The kineticist only makes one attack per turn, so, the numbers were fine.

But Deadly Aim was always a DPR downgrade. It's a total trap, because the attack deals so much base damage, the penalty to hit heavily outweighs the minor damage bonus.


Yeah, while I'm still okay with recommending a touch blast at either the 1st or 7th level, the non-touch blasts hit fine for Kineticists.

As for why they're losing Vital Strike... it makes their endgame hilarious. "60D6 per swing at level 19" hilarious. Whether or not you find that a problem is a separate question of course, but there is a reason.

Grand Lodge

Since it wasn't mentioned yet, Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, and Improved Precise Shot also work with Kinetic Blasts.


Is Precise shot considered mandatory?


Soilent wrote:
Is Precise shot considered mandatory?

Early on? Yes, no matter what kind of blast because low level enemies have touch ACs close to their regular AC values.

By mid-to-high levels? Not if you use a touch blast (since touch ACs don't move much beyond what they start at at low levels), but you'll still want it if you use a physical blast.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
mplindustries wrote:
Soilent wrote:
Is Precise shot considered mandatory?

Early on? Yes, no matter what kind of blast because low level enemies have touch ACs close to their regular AC values.

By mid-to-high levels? Not if you use a touch blast (since touch ACs don't move much beyond what they start at at low levels), but you'll still want it if you use a physical blast.

Oof Yea. Precise Shot is a life saver in early levels if a kineticist wants to be relevent. Typically already have to deal with all the melee-happy folks surrounding the enemy and clear firing lanes is a luxury item one can't always depend on in type/narrow dungeons/ruins/buildings/ships, so it's good to have Precise Shot so one doesn't have to deal with Firing into Melee -4 penalty along with the +4 AC soft cover bonus allies provide already.


Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

But that shouldnt be a surprise to anyone who has played the ranged game before. Melee needs to pay the Power Attack Tax range has to pay for both the Point Blank Shot and Precise Shot fees.

Silver Crusade

mplindustries wrote:
Soilent wrote:
Is Precise shot considered mandatory?

Early on? Yes, no matter what kind of blast because low level enemies have touch ACs close to their regular AC values.

By mid-to-high levels? Not if you use a touch blast (since touch ACs don't move much beyond what they start at at low levels), but you'll still want it if you use a physical blast.

well also depends on what sort of blasts you use.


thank you all for the useful information. I hope they clarify everything in the final version of the class and make it so it works with more feats or make new feats for Kineticists :)

Grand Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Companion Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber

Since using the kinetic blast is a standard action, it looks like the Bullseye Shot feat from inner sea gods might actually have some use coupled with it, as said feat allows you to use a move action to increase your accuracy with a ranged attack in the same turn.


Arutema wrote:
Since using the kinetic blast is a standard action, it looks like the Bullseye Shot feat from inner sea gods might actually have some use coupled with it, as said feat allows you to use a move action to increase your accuracy with a ranged attack in the same turn.

Generally, if you can spare a move action you're going to get more value using it to reduce Burn for a free Empowered. Or one of the Talent boosts, like range, but 50% more damage will almost always be worth more than +4 attack.

Grand Lodge

Arutema wrote:
Since using the kinetic blast is a standard action, it looks like the Bullseye Shot feat from inner sea gods might actually have some use coupled with it, as said feat allows you to use a move action to increase your accuracy with a ranged attack in the same turn.

I thought the same thing at first, but the playtest Kineticist already has an option to expend a move action and increase accuracy (can't recall by how much, but IIRC eventually as much as Bullseye Shot).

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber
"Dragonfly" wrote:
Arutema wrote:
Since using the kinetic blast is a standard action, it looks like the Bullseye Shot feat from inner sea gods might actually have some use coupled with it, as said feat allows you to use a move action to increase your accuracy with a ranged attack in the same turn.
I thought the same thing at first, but the playtest Kineticist already has an option to expend a move action and increase accuracy (can't recall by how much, but IIRC eventually as much as Bullseye Shot).

Strange, I don't recall seeing that. What was the ability called?

Grand Lodge

Nevermind. I was getting "Feel the Burn", "gathering energy", and "Empower" mixed up.


Does "Gathering Energy" Provoke AOO?

It seems to imply it, as it goes into great detail about it.


Soilent wrote:

Does "Gathering Energy" Provoke AOO?

It seems to imply it, as it goes into great detail about it.

Not to my understanding.

But if the archer knows who you are and readies an arrow, your life might just suck.

Grand Lodge

Casting the (Sp) and making the ranged attack already provoke (and only one of those can you prevent by "casting defensively"), so I'd hope that gathering energy didn't add to that.


Naw gathering energy doesn't provoke. It doesn't say it does within the burn mechanic.

While it does detail what happens when one has gathered energy and then get hit if and hadn't already made a blast attack (poor Fort save = extra burn taken); but that's more assumed with a readied action against the kineticist, or the kineticist tried to gather energy then blast while adjacent to opponent. In the latter case, the blast provoked the AoO, and since the AoO happens before the blast, the kineticist better hopes he makes the following Fort save.

I...I'm not sure why someone would FAQ my first post. It's listing current feats that work or don't work as linked to Mark Seifter's comments. Though there is that bit where I'm guessing about Improved Critical or Weapon Specialization and other weapon specific feats, it's not phrased in any way that's FAQ appropriate.

Paizo Employee Designer

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Kestral and Protoman, when they say that the bad consequences are for readied actions (or the longer gather power), are right!

Lantern Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber, Campaign Setting, Companion, Maps, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber

How do you increase accuracy via burn?? Can't find it in the book!


Dancingweasel wrote:
How do you increase accuracy via burn?? Can't find it in the book!

Elemental Overflow.

At level 3, if you have one burn, get +1 to attack and +2 damage. Those numbers go up every three levels with more burn.

Lantern Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber, Campaign Setting, Companion, Maps, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber

Fab cheers!!


Soilent wrote:

Does "Gathering Energy" Provoke AOO?

It seems to imply it, as it goes into great detail about it.

No... but getting damaged while doing it will screw you you.

As for feats... let's see...
* Weapon Focus (Kinetic Blast)
-- its related feats
* Weapon Specialization (Kinetic Blast)
-- its related feats
* Point-Blank Shot
* Precise Shot
-- Improved Precise Shot
* Shot on the Run
* Critical Focus (yep, if it requires an attack roll, it can crit :P)
-- its related feats
* Deadly Aim
* Elemental Focus (since it's a spell-like ability, I believe it can apply)
* Blighted Critical
* Improved Critical Shot
* Opening Volley
* Coordinated Shot

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Weapon Versatility

False Opening

Penetrating Strike(requires multiclassing)

Greater Penetrating Strike(requires multiclassing)

Point Blank Master

Ranged Study(requires multiclassing)

Snap Shot(technically legal, but not sure if it works)

Improved Snap Shot(technically legal, but not sure if it works)

Stage Combatant

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Measured Response

Parting Shot

Reckless Aim


Snap Shot and Weapon Versatility specifically state "wield" in their feat write-ups and Kinetic Blast now specifically aren't wielded.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Yup.

My bad.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

Why does Elemental Focus work? The feat specifically says it works on spells. I want it to work but can't find "proof" that it does.

Everything I've seen is that this is what Ability Focus is for. Which in a home game is great for a GM to rule on, but PFS has more strict rules.

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