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Hey all,
I'm considering playing a bad touch cleric, in PFS, who specializes in Necromancy spells (Inflicts, Slay Living, Boneshatter, Harm, and etc.) Although I'm focusing on Necromancy spells I'm not looking to cast anything in regards to raising undead, controlling undead, or etc. I'd think stuff regarding raising undead would not be favored or allowed by most Good aligned deities but wondering if Good aligned deities have issues with Necromancy spells being cast to harm enemies.
I'm particularly wondering if Shelyn would have major issues with Necromancy spells being cast and if a cleric could exist as one that prepares and uses necromancy spells while worshiping Shelyn.
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Necromancy would not be shunned by itself - it is an art form after all - but you would need to be very careful in how you use it. On way you could describe why you trained in it is because of the terrible aspect of the Whisperer of Souls and in look for ways to find the inner beauty in a dark subject.
So how does the goddess of beauty and love get a glaive as her favored weapon? Shelyn bears the glaive gifted to her half brother in exchange for him swearing the Unbreakable Oath. The weapon was crafted by the former god of smiths, who fell during the same murderous spree that claimed Shelyn’s mother. When he received it, the weapon corrupted Zon-Kuthon and convinced him to go to war against the other deities. It was during this war that Shelyn lost her mother and became goddess of love. When created, Whisperer of Souls was given the ability to absorb souls (hence its name) and once it absorbs 100 powerful souls (not just anybody’s soul will do) it will become a god in its own right and bring about an era of murder and death. When Zon-Kuthon received the weapon it held no souls. By the time Shelyn stole Whisperer of Souls it had almost all it needed. In the time since, Shelyn has been able to free most of those souls thanks to the help of Nethys and brave adventurers (a grand quest of goodness must be performed to release a soul). Much to the frustration of Whisperer of Souls, it can’t seem to corrupt Shelyn or influence her in any way (earning her the title "the Incorruptible"). Quite the opposite, in fact: when Shelyn first stole the weapon it was a nightmarish and hideous piece of craftsmanship, but in the millennia since, Shelyn has remade it into a beautiful piece of art. It still bears a few ugly bits here and there, but they become less pronounced with each soul she releases.
Inflicts, Slay Living, Boneshatter, Harm
Using warping and suffering magic as a herald of a good goddess of pristine beauty and art and love does not seem a great idea to me.
Mind you that others necromancy spells like Death Ward or Undeath to Death are instead totally approved.
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Yeah, on one aspect I could see it as art and on another a deformation. In PFS, most opponents are of evil origin so their destruction I could see as "leaving life richer for those who follow."
My use of Boneshatter would be intentional and directed at someone / something. As for my touch spells I'd be using a spell storing glaive (barring that I'm convinced that Shelyn would not disapprove of my character concept) so it would be the opponent that would be initiating the aggressive action and myself taking an attack of opportunity to defend myself.
Appreciate what has been brought up so far. I do know that spells of opposite alignment aren't allowed to be cast but I don't believe there's any issue RAW with preparing an inflict spell to cast when you normal spontaneously cast cure spells. I tend to see it as it's your ability to rework (spontaneously cast) spells to curing (if you're good) or inflicting (if you're bad) as your deity and/or you are more "in touch" with that nature of spell to where it becomes "second nature" to turn a random spell into. I don't think that removes the opposite "cure" or "inflict" spell from the Cleric's ability to cast though.
I guess even animate dead, or create undead could be considered "art" though but that's not my character's goal though. Guess art is typically in the eye of the beholder isn't it?
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Perhaps there is even a semi twisted beauty in necromancy itself.
This is what her brother Zon-Kuthon is there for though ;)
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I think Shelyn might have an issue with at least some types of bad touch, regardless of whether or not they are Necromancy.
The issue of Necromancy more generally would be less bad if Healing had been left in Necromancy, where it belongs (as in AD&D 1.x). Conjuration (Healing)? . . . rrrrrriiiiiiiiiiiiigggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhtttttttttt
True but her brother takes it to a whole other level and isn't so much necromancy as much as a perversion of it. Because the OP seeks to use spells instead of easing the undead this is necromancy in a pure form without morals, alignments, or views being put upon it.Perhaps there is even a semi twisted beauty in necromancy itself.This is what her brother Zon-Kuthon is there for though ;)
Deities aren't just alignment descriptors and domain spells.
If a follower of Cayden pisses in a beer mug rest assured he'd lose his powers despite being a chaotic act.
Famous Macabre artists like Edvard Munch, Théodore Géricault, and H. R. Giger show that scary gross death stuff can be a meaningful form of art. If the cleric isn't being evil, and is playing up the notion that her spells exhibit provocative expressions of creativity and imagination, then I think Shelyn would be pleased.
I think Shelyn might have an issue with at least some types of bad touch, regardless of whether or not they are Necromancy.
The issue of Necromancy more generally would be less bad if Healing had been left in Necromancy, where it belongs (as in AD&D 1.x). Conjuration (Healing)? . . . rrrrrriiiiiiiiiiiiigggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhtttttttttt
I know what you mean - every inner plane is touched on directly by one of the schools of magic, with the odd exception of the positive energy plane. All Conjuration spells go through the Astral plane, meaning all the energy from healing spells takes a circuitous path from the Positive, to the Astral, and then to the Material, while there is a direct connection from the Negative. Makes no sense!
Perhaps they could be a heretic who seeks to unite the two extremes of beauty found in Shelyn and Zon-Kuthon (with a preference towards Shelyn) or tries to understand the beauty found in destruction and pain to gain an insight into worshippers of Zon in hopes of redeeming them?
Perhaps it could be a matter of he who creates (art) must also destroy? Destruction provides the canvas and materials for new art.
Maybe the necromancy spells are just weapons with no ideological meaning? Your character could be creative and artistic in other areas of their life but in matters of combat they prefer to go on the offensive. They don't necessarily revel in battle, they try to avoid it if they can but when called to fight then fight they will.
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I just remembered this but from a roleplaying / flavor perspective couldn't this character concept work as a Separatist cleric archetype? Maybe this is the most reasonable / possible way to roleplay this type of character?If you want to go this route it makes sense but then the question becomes who or what is their seperatist domain/deity? I personally don't think it's required but it works well enough. Death domain is pointless as you have positive channels, madness at level -2 is far too weak. Arshea would be hilarious but irrelevant to necromancy spells. Qi Zhong would probably be a good choice as he is a god of medicine. Sun Wukong would add a hedonistic side to love and art; both he and Qi are in the same pantheon as Shelyn so it's an easy match. Finally, you could try Zon Kuthon but that is very very twisted and potentially offensive to players despite that I feel it is perfect for necromancy oriented clerics. DO NOT take that option without serious thought and talking to people though.
Well, nothing says you have to go by a 2nd deity. Just that you pick a domain outside of your deity's norm. I'd think fitting for someone with personal views of war or violence that Shelyn might not naturally hold to but it being something that the character's view can't sway from to adhere to 100% of the deity's normal teachings.
I'm considering Tactics as the 2nd but maybe some others might be good?
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Edit: a seperatist still gets powers from their deity, so if Shelyn is grantin you power the. She has no problem with necromancy and this eliminating the need. But if your tryin to bridge Shelyn's faith with necromancy the most obvious solution is finding another deity (though not the best).
Tactics would arguably be even more questionable to the tenets of Shelyn than necromancy spells. She wants life to be preserved when possible but now your taking a domain that is skirting the line. Not saying I don't approve of war/tactics I jus think its transferring a semi questionable philosophical issue into a more questionable package.
Idk, maybe she fights to protect the ones she loves? Maybe combat is a form of art to her? I'd think full blown Necromancy would be way worse than adopting the Tactics (War) domain while under Shelyn.
Hey all,
I'm considering playing a bad touch cleric, in PFS, who specializes in Necromancy spells (Inflicts, Slay Living, Boneshatter, Harm, and etc.) Although I'm focusing on Necromancy spells I'm not looking to cast anything in regards to raising undead, controlling undead, or etc. I'd think stuff regarding raising undead would not be favored or allowed by most Good aligned deities but wondering if Good aligned deities have issues with Necromancy spells being cast to harm enemies.
I'm particularly wondering if Shelyn would have major issues with Necromancy spells being cast and if a cleric could exist as one that prepares and uses necromancy spells while worshiping Shelyn.
As far as I know, the only major restriction on what spells you can cast is based on if they possess the evil descriptor or not. To this end, inflict spells are out since if you worship a good aligned god you have to use positive energy TMK.
Addendum:
Well, I'm not finding evil attached to Inflict spells, but I do believe there is a stipulation somewhere that clerics of good gods cannot cast negative energy spells.
/shrug
No, good clerics can cast Inflict spells, just as evil clerics can cast Cure spells. The limitation by alignment is in regard to which sort of spell you can spontaneously convert a prepared cleric spell into.
But the basic Channel Energy ability definitely does work differently for good and evil clerics.
^Good Clerics have to be able to cast Inflict spells -- never know when you're going to need to heal your Dhampir friend. Likewise, Evil Clerics have to be able to cast Cure spells, at least to heal themselves until the later levels when they can become Undead while retaining their class abilities. (Related to this: AD&D 1.x Antipaladins used to be able to Lay on Hands to heal themselves; however, this seems to have gotten lost somewhere along the way to D&D 3.5/PF.)