Is the world ready... for a halfing BBEG? (Minor spoilers probable)


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

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137ben wrote:
DominusMegadeus wrote:

I admit to being horribly bigoted against Gnomes, and I don't at all blame Paizo for leaving them to less important roles.

Why would you need any humanoids besides Dwarves anyway?

You'd hate my campaign setting!

Gnomes are the most common humanoid race and the default. There are no humans, so the races commonly called half-elf, half-orc, and half-dwarf are gnome/(elf, orc, or dwarf) hybrids. In many regions of the continent where most of my campaign is centered, gnomes make up as much as 85% of the population:)

Some men just want to watch the world burn...


tonyz wrote:

Halfing as the Ruler Behind the Throne -- a clever jester, a prime minister, a villain who needs to be counter-manipulated as well as just outfought.

A powerful sorcerer or oracle (or even a mystic theurge build), or even a bard, would be right up their alley. And no one would expect it, particularly if he showed up earlier and helped the PCs a bit...

Bah. Just saying 'he is a caster' and being done with it is boring.

While I can understand a certain predisposition towards having casters as the one in charge, I still think you should have at least some of the upper levels as weapon inclined classes and builds.

A halfling cavalier that does charges in all environments with risky striker backing up his damage.

A halfling juggler bard that uses that archetype's abilities (maybe switch to slayer after level 2 when that turns on) to TWF sling and then get a crap ton of hits with static bonuses to damage. Make a living machine gun.

A whip focused swashbuckler that trips and dodges all opponents.

A bolt slinging sniper (maybe some aclemist after the dex to damage at level 5 to get bombs in there too for extra damage and status conditions- particularly nice if he uses a distance heavy crossbow and REALLY plays the range game, forcing the party to slowly creep towards him while using cover- that can be an entire memorable encounter)

Sidenote- the obsession with large creatures like giants has at least some mechanical basis though- tall large creatures have extra reach, which is a rather big tactical advantage when played well. AoO builds that make circles of pain, easier full attacks, even the ability to take a 5' step back and still use touch spells.

There is a reason why melee threats tend to get bigger when they are higher CR.

And that is why tiny creatures tend not to be as threatening- they give small and medium creatures similar advantages to giants with AoOs. Still, I can't entirely explain why small creatures can't fill in some of the medium roles.

Scarab Sages

What if Frodo had successfully walked away from Mt. Doom with the One Ring (and ended up as something rather more impressive than Gollum)?

Sounds like a promising BBEG origin story to me....


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I'll admit, I feel this way about all of the short races (including dwarves). I think the way to have them taken seriously is to really play against the stereotypes. Ditch alcoholic dwarves, optimistic halflings, and quirky Zooey Deschanel gnomes and make them actual characters to your players. It'll take a while to get it through to your players, but it'll work.


lemeres wrote:
tonyz wrote:

Halfing as the Ruler Behind the Throne -- a clever jester, a prime minister, a villain who needs to be counter-manipulated as well as just outfought.

A powerful sorcerer or oracle (or even a mystic theurge build), or even a bard, would be right up their alley. And no one would expect it, particularly if he showed up earlier and helped the PCs a bit...

Bah. Just saying 'he is a caster' and being done with it is boring.

While I am all for making a halfling/gnome spellcaster to put some fear in the PCs... yeah, I agree that it would be the most ballsy to make one into a straight-up combatant, whether melee or ranged. I mean the PCs will fear an anchovie if it can cast finger of death. It's a whole other thing to make them legitimately respect a Small character with sharp stabby bits.

Dark Archive

Thanks to the Halfling connection to Norgorber, who goes well past the one-dimensional and narratively pigeonholed psycho-killers/murder-cultists following Father Skinsaw to the more urbane and intelligent evil of the Gray Master (rogue-friendly), Blackfingers (alchemist-friendly) and the Reaper of Reputation (bard-friendly), there's certainly space for a Halfling church / cult / group of Norgorber followers.

They might not think of themselves as 'big bads,' but, in this case, big danger (and big schemes, seizing control of a thieves guild to use it as muscle to further political ambitions that open up opportunities to dominate entire districts of a city like Absalom, up to and including seeding themselves in various organizations and power players, such as sending Norgorber-following alchemists to work in the Arcanamirium) can come in small packages.


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Generic Villain wrote:
While I am all for making a halfling/gnome spellcaster to put some fear in the PCs... yeah, I agree that it would be the most ballsy to make one into a straight-up combatant, whether melee or ranged. I mean the PCs will fear an anchovie if it can cast finger of death. It's a whole other thing to make them legitimately respect a Small character with sharp stabby bits.

Oh, how about some shadow dancers? Since it is a VERY dip friendly prestige class, you can do very wide number of builds with it.

Of course they also come with shadows with lethal str damage that can hide in the ground when things get hairy. The halflings can perform guerrilla strikes again and again, and perhaps even abandon stealth when you start blasting antistealth spells by using disguise to look like children (which can carry other interesting traps- if they attack you in an urban area with actual kids around... they might trick you into doing some fall worthy actions when you think you caught onto their tricks and found one of 'them'.)

Yes, a team of shadow dancers that dog the players throughout the campaign. Surprise attacks, dash and grabs of plot important items, back up that gives crude more expendable warriors a chance to escape, etc. Do it long and hard enough, and the party will be shaking every single child they see...which gets them quite the reputation, no?

It doesn't matter if they are the big bad or not- as long as you get the party to say 'those ****ing halflings' is more than enough to put a warm fuzzy feeling inside.


^I wonder if the recently announced Hell's Vengeance will wind up doing exactly that . . .

Hell's Vengeance wouldn't even necessarily have to be run as an (entirely) Evil AP -- what if the Halfling Cult of Norgorber usurped the Bellflower Network and became the Golarion equivalent of ISIS?

Grand Lodge

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The Dread Pirate Hurley wrote:
Gnomes are predisposed to having quirky obsessions. They're on a constant quest for novelty to keep them from Bleaching. It's not difficult to imagine a gnome with decidedly more... gruesome obsessions. I could see Count Rugen from The Princess Bride as a gnome.

(Side note: Already saw the Gnome hate coming to the fore. Man, people really don't like these guys, eh? Makes me sad.)

Truthfully, I think a Bleachling would make a better and far different sort of Gnome villain than the PHB Gnome. If I recall correctly, a gnome that survives its bleaching loses its CHA boost and gets a WIS bonus instead, becomes super connected to the First World and has an ethereal, inscrutable quality about it.

Imagine a hypermeditative, silent summoner-type with impenetrable motives and the appearance of a frail, albino child. I'm seeing a Shaman with a snow owl familiar perched in a lofty position beyond the PC's reach, with Ankou servants bringing the fight to their level while she casts spells from afar. That would actually be scary as hell.

EDIT: Apparently Gnome's ability array doesn't change after Bleaching, though it can speak with animals at will and gets Druid as an additional favored class. So even better - imagine a Summoner whose summons have become twisted mockeries of First World creations.

Dark Archive

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A bleachling gnome who is more-insane-than-normal and is trying to 'bleach' other races (and other gnomes, for company) experimenting with elves, humans and dwarves to see if extended periods of sensory deprivation will 'bore the color right out of them' could be creepy, perhaps because they regard the bleached state as some sort of higher level of consciousness, or trial / challenge that winnows out the weak.

Bonus points if he / she is attempting to bleach color out of other races (or other gnomes) in an attempt to restore color to other bleachlings, such as a loved one who has lost the will to live, along with their color, and they keep in a kind of suspended animation until they can 'give them their color back' by stealing life from others.

The logical conclusion would be to adapt the afflicted gnome to function on the mortal plane the same way that elves, dwarves and humans do, *or* to bleach color / vitality / passion from *fey* creatures, to 'recharge' the afflicted.

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