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As the title says, and thanks for any advice in advance.
I'm playing in a Pathfinder campaign set in a homebrew world, and enjoying it despite losing three characters in three sessions to a combination of bad luck and playing more offensively focused characters.
I've played a Gnome Sorcerer, Elven Investigator and Elven Wizard so far. The first two were glass cannons, I'll admit, but the last was focused on defences and non-combat spells...
I'm looking for advice/brainstorming on builds built to survive using the following character creation criteria:
Level: 3
Ability Scores: 20 point buy
Races: Drow, Dwarf, Elf, Gnome, Human (Advanced Race Guide versions)
Classes: Any Paizo Pathfinder classes.
Feats: Any Paizo feats.
Equipment: WBL for Level 3, crafting feats allowed.
Current party is a Human Paladin (hammer and shield build), an Elf Ranger (archery combat style) and a homebrew Lizardfolk-style race Shaman (Lore Spirit).
If you are playing 1/2 BAB characters you never want to be right up next to the enemy if you can avoid it. You weren't going with touch spells were you, because if so we may have found the problem :P
That said, saying you want a defensive focus is still not a lot to go on. What do you want your character to be able to do besides survive?
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If you are playing 1/2 BAB characters you never want to be right up next to the enemy if you can avoid it. You weren't going with touch spells were you, because if so we may have found the problem :P
That said, saying you want a defensive focus is still not a lot to go on. What do you want your character to be able to do besides survive?
The Gnome Sorcerer had the Primal Elemental (Fire) Bloodline and was focused on Burning Hands, so you'd think he was killed for getting too close to melee, but he was in fact killed by a Longbow critical hit from 100 feet away :P
However, the Wizard died because I tried to drag the Paladin away from a Yellow Musk Creeper when he went into negative HP, and promptly I got hit by an AoO Slam, Grabbed and Constricted to death...
I'd like to build a character with good defences, has a good HP total, and that can last and contribute for an adventuring day. The GM has been quite balanced so far when it comes to CR and appropriate encounters/day and difficulty.
I can see plenty of choices, so I'm looking for advice and inspiration and any skeletons you post will be of interest to me :)
Versatile Human destined blood rager (primalist archtype): Str and con 14+2, dex and cha 14, int 8, wis 12. Bardiche and armor spikes on your breast plate.
Combat reflexes on level 1, raging vitality at 3, power attack or arcane strike at 5. Dont forget the fates favored and armor expert traits.
At level 8 and 12 you Pick the beast totem Line and come and get me rage powers.
How about Invulnerable Rager Barbarian? Go human or one of the half human races that still access human favored class bonuses; take the favored class option to boost the bonuses given by the Superstition power. Take Raging Vitality for more con and the ability to keep raging even if you go unconscious. Consider Taking the Dragon Totem line for an extra 6 DR. Get the feat Stalwart to turn the bonus from Combat Expertise into more DR. Get Improved Stalwart to turn double that bonus to DR. Walk around with AC 5 but have 20 something DR, like double that of one energy resistance, and god saves versus magic.
The downsides there are you lose out on Beast Totem, the prerequisites for Dragon Totem are bad, and it takes a while for it to all come together.
Alternatively, Synthesist Summoner. You essentially get double HP, 6th level casting, awesome evolutions, plus the actual summon monster SLA if you don't want to be in eidolon form. Go half elf so you can take the elf favored class option to reduce the eidolon summon time by 1 round per level; at level 9 you can always summon your suit in a single round no matter what.
Downside there is that Synthesist is widely disliked for how easy it is to make awesome; no idea how well Unchained Synthesist Summoner would work out though.
You seem to like characters that are comparable to blasters or save or die casters. Have you thought about what spells appeal to you most and finding a cleric or oracle that can cast them? Both have higher health and would have medium armor to help out. Furthermore both have healing.
If you aren't ever going to make attack rolls (weapon or spell) you could even wear heavy armor and use a tower shield without proficiency and still have your spell casting and domain abilities completely intact.
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You seem to like characters that are comparable to blasters or save or die casters. Have you thought about what spells appeal to you most and finding a cleric or oracle that can cast them? Both have higher health and would have medium armor to help out. Furthermore both have healing.If you aren't ever going to make attack rolls (weapon or spell) you could even wear heavy armor and use a tower shield without proficiency and still have your spell casting and domain abilities completely intact.
This idea appeals to me, I have to say. I was considering playing a more martial-based character, but Renegadeshepherd is correct in saying that I like playing blaster-casters. The Blockbuster Wizard is my kind of Wizard, and the Elven Wizard was a Diviner and somewhat out of character for me...
Maybe a Theologian Cleric with the Fire Domain? Focusing on Wis, Con and using mediocre Str and carrying capacity tricks to wear his armour and shield? Hmmm...
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Though a little extreme I also support this. If one goes this route an oracle with the blackened curse would be ideal. Trading a further -4 to weapon attacks to gain burning hands, scorching ray, and such is worth it for that niche.You seem to like characters that are comparable to blasters or save or die casters. Have you thought about what spells appeal to you most and finding a cleric or oracle that can cast them? Both have higher health and would have medium armor to help out. Furthermore both have healing.If you aren't ever going to make attack rolls (weapon or spell) you could even wear heavy armor and use a tower shield without proficiency and still have your spell casting and domain abilities completely intact.
The Blackened Curse is really cool, and I was torn between an Oracle with it and the Sorcerer I eventually went for. My concern with divine blasters has always been that they have lower damage than arcane blasters, but given how often I've died maybe I need the healing and self-buffing versatility they bring...
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Versatile Human destined blood rager (primalist archtype): Str and con 14+2, dex and cha 14, int 8, wis 12. Bardiche and armor spikes on your breast plate.
Combat reflexes on level 1, raging vitality at 3, power attack or arcane strike at 5. Dont forget the fates favored and armor expert traits.
At level 8 and 12 you Pick the beast totem Line and come and get me rage powers.
I've never tried the reach weapon and armour spikes combo before, so I might just try it, and thanks for the idea.
That array is definitely better than the ones I was juggling with for Bloodrager :) I'd forgotten Dual Talent existed, I just love me that extra skill point a level (not sarcasm, I genuinely do, but it'll help the Bloodrager less) :P
Do you think it's worth it to go Untouchable to free up the Charisma points?
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How about Invulnerable Rager Barbarian? Go human or one of the half human races that still access human favored class bonuses; take the favored class option to boost the bonuses given by the Superstition power. Take Raging Vitality for more con and the ability to keep raging even if you go unconscious. Consider Taking the Dragon Totem line for an extra 6 DR. Get the feat Stalwart to turn the bonus from Combat Expertise into more DR. Get Improved Stalwart to turn double that bonus to DR. Walk around with AC 5 but have 20 something DR, like double that of one energy resistance, and god saves versus magic.
The downsides there are you lose out on Beast Totem, the prerequisites for Dragon Totem are bad, and it takes a while for it to all come together.
Alternatively, Synthesist Summoner. You essentially get double HP, 6th level casting, awesome evolutions, plus the actual summon monster SLA if you don't want to be in eidolon form. Go half elf so you can take the elf favored class option to reduce the eidolon summon time by 1 round per level; at level 9 you can always summon your suit in a single round no matter what.
Downside there is that Synthesist is widely disliked for how easy it is to make awesome; no idea how well Unchained Synthesist Summoner would work out though.
I've been toying with the idea of the Invulnerable Rager Barbarian myself, mostly because of the word 'Invulnerable' :P I'd come up with a similar build, but thanks for reminding me about the existence of the Stalwart feat tree. I'm okay with losing out on Beast Totem, as I've played two characters with Beast Totem before so I feel like trying something different.
As for Synthesist Summoner, I'd love to play a Half-Elf Synthesist (both the 'dual people, dual race' theme and the bonuses) but unfortunately the GM dislikes the 'Half' races conceptually and hasn't included them in the homebrew world. That said, I might still try a Synthesist, as I have never tried them before and the GM is fairly adept at challenging us.
Versatile Human destined blood rager (primalist archtype): Str and con 14+2, dex and cha 14, int 8, wis 12. Bardiche and armor spikes on your breast plate.
Combat reflexes on level 1, raging vitality at 3, power attack or arcane strike at 5. Dont forget the fates favored and armor expert traits.
At level 8 and 12 you Pick the beast totem Line and come and get me rage powers.I've never tried the reach weapon and armour spikes combo before, so I might just try it, and thanks for the idea.
That array is definitely better than the ones I was juggling with for Bloodrager :) I'd forgotten Dual Talent existed, I just love me that extra skill point a level (not sarcasm, I genuinely do, but it'll help the Bloodrager less) :P
Do you think it's worth it to go Untouchable to free up the Charisma points?
Nope. Spell resistance is a bad thing to have as a PC most of the time. IMOP. And you want the spells somthing like shield or expeditious retreat are amazing and game winning spells in the 1-10 part of the game. I like the bloodrider archtype. combined with the half orc feat Beast Rider could be fun but that will cost you boon companion at 5 and not every game is made better by having a triceratops as a Mount.
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Obligatory disclaimers: Well it is possible to blast and do melee if you want to, it's just tricky. I would also point out that there other kinds of blasting like a negative channeling cleric.
There is one other thing that comes to my mind if you just don't want heavier armors, ecclisitheurge cleric. Trickery domains power and spells add early game survival and can be good even in mid levels. Is it worth it? Maybe maybe not. Next, what would you say to an envoy of balance? Hard to kill those guys but a bit complex I admit.
Finally, how do you feel abou the demigodess Feronia? Fire domain, neutral, has 3 other solid domains, AND a bastard sword. With a bastard sword you could just go channel smite/guided hand and your in business for melee. Blasting wil suffer at first I admit but we can overcome it with time.
Wow, Feronia is a sweet demigoddess. Never noticed her before, but those domain choices are really good, especially with the bastard sword proficiency too. I can't use her because of homebrew gods, unfortunately, but the GM allows clerics of philosophies and allows us to pick thematic domains and weapon to those philosophies - so I can get her combo and theme.
Maybe go Destruction and Fire, focus on Wisdom with my secondary stats as Str and Con and use Destructive Smite and the higher damage dice to make up the damage difference?
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Versatile Human destined blood rager (primalist archtype): Str and con 14+2, dex and cha 14, int 8, wis 12. Bardiche and armor spikes on your breast plate.
Combat reflexes on level 1, raging vitality at 3, power attack or arcane strike at 5. Dont forget the fates favored and armor expert traits.
At level 8 and 12 you Pick the beast totem Line and come and get me rage powers.I've never tried the reach weapon and armour spikes combo before, so I might just try it, and thanks for the idea.
That array is definitely better than the ones I was juggling with for Bloodrager :) I'd forgotten Dual Talent existed, I just love me that extra skill point a level (not sarcasm, I genuinely do, but it'll help the Bloodrager less) :P
Do you think it's worth it to go Untouchable to free up the Charisma points?
Nope. Spell resistance is a bad thing to have as a PC most of the time. IMOP. And you want the spells somthing like shield or expeditious retreat are amazing and game winning spells in the 1-10 part of the game. I like the bloodrider archtype. combined with the half orc feat Beast Rider could be fun but that will cost you boon companion at 5 and not every game is made better by having a triceratops as a Mount.
I would miss the staple spells, I'll admit. Never tried the Bloodrider, looks cool, but I can't play a Half-Orc unfortunately.
I say the problem is that you played glass canons and took the wrong decisions. We can fix this in two steps, first we will build a iron cannon!
Make a Dwarven Gunsligner!
Level 3 dwarf:
STR 10
CON 15
DEX 17
INT 10
WIS 14
CHA 8
Traits:
Black Powder Bravado
Second Chance
Feats:
Level 1 -> Point Blank Shot
Level 3 -> Precise Shot
Skills -> Get acrobatics to get in and out of threatened range without fear of retaliation. Max out your perception too.
After you get past your streak of dying ->
Level 4 (Bonus feat) -> Rapid shot
Level 5 -> Deadly aim
Level 7 -> Steel soul (this will boost your save very well)
Second point:
Play safe, take covers, don't rush in.
If tehy are dead they cannot kill you, don't provoke useless AOO
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You could try a Scarred Which Doctor, yes I know you can’t play a Half Orc or an Orc but a level of Sorcerer with the Orc Bloodline will get you all you need and then 2 levels of Witch.
You use Con as your casting stat for Witch and A Charisma of 11 is all you need. Take Mage Armour and Shield as your Sorcerer spells.
Should have plenty of HP’s available plus you get Hex’s which are pretty cool. Also you will be able to spam a lot of 1st level spells and you are only 1 level behind a standard witch.
Correct me if anything thinks this won’t work.
Just a thought.
Regards
Sic
I would think something that is hard to kill would be a better blaster for this campaign.
Try a dwarf druid. Don't care about strength or charisma and max out wisdom. Take a nasty attack domain like Fire or Earth (Cave) instead of an animal companion. Rain fire and lightning down round after round. Laugh as you casually fly, swim, burrow, and summon effectively because you happen to be a druid and those are the peripheral benefits. Have a good AC, high saves and lots of HP.
Sure you won't be great at skills or melee, but you can blast with Flaming Sphere and Call Lightning for multiple rounds off a single casting and you can drop whatever you prepared to summon up just the right help if you think it would be better than what you prepared.
It lets you do most of what a wizard does while being much less squishy and also doing some of what a cleric does.
Human
1 Verminous Hunter
Tribal Scars, Power Attack
2 Steelblood Bloodrager (Abberant Bloodline)
3 Bloodrager
Toughness
4 Bloodrager
5 Bloodrager
Aberrant Tumor (Protector Hedgehog)
6 BloodragerGood damage, decent armour, crazy hitpoints and fast healing
This one is gonna be hard to beat if he manages to get good saves. I wouldent go steelblooded since a feat and a mithral full plate will give what it gives without loosing DR.
And take the favored class extra hit point bonus.
Be a Summoner. They have meatshields for class features.
However, the Wizard died because I tried to drag the Paladin away from a Yellow Musk Creeper when he went into negative HP, and promptly I got hit by an AoO Slam, Grabbed and Constricted to death...
That's pretty impressive given that Yellow Musk Creepers lack both grab and constrict. I think your GM is playing hardball.
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Looking at your Group You lack a Healer.
I alwayse insist on a balanced party in a home game
that means a Fighter(Ac or HP Soak with full BaB)
an Arcanist(Someone with all the knowledge skills and can deal with AoE and Swarms)
a Trap Finder(can dispose of and find magical traps)
and a Healer (can remove Bad things Like Fear, Blindness, disease etc...)
So i can see in your group you have
Paladin = Fighter/Tank
Ranger = Trapfinder
Shaman (Lore) = Arcanist
You = Healer
So reasonable options for a Healer include
Cleric, Oracle, Shaman(life), Witch(healing),Alchemist(must have infusion)
Lesser Healers
Inquisitor, Paladin, Warpriest, Bard. etc..
Clerics and druids are a lot more survivable at low levels than wizards, and their spells can really help the rest of the party.
Okay I'm going to reccomend something completely different, and in my opinion awesome.
Scarred witch doctor. Totally Sad.
Be a human.
Str 10 dex 13 con 20(+2 racial) int 12 wis 12 cha 7
Lvl 1 Racial Heritage Orc (now you qualify for Scarred witch doctor), Toughness (you don't yet qualify for extra hex as at level 1 you don't get a hex as a scarred witch doctor)
lvl 3 extra hex.
One important thing to remember about the scarred witch doctor is that Your hexes, your max spell level, your spell dc, and starting spells known are based on your con, but your bonus spells per day is not. That is still intelligence, so you will get one bonus lvl 1 spell, as it was cheap to get, but that's it. Your DC's all around will rock though. You will learn to love your hexes, it's up to you to choose which ones you get, but the ones that have DC's are great for you, as are spells that have DC's.
However you wanted survivable Caster? Well lvl 3 assuming PFS advancement rules, and that you apply your favored class bonus to HP (you should) you will have (assuming no con boosting item): 35 HP. Compare that to your average lvl 3 fighter: 31 HP. You actually outdo the meatsheild, and you have sacrificed no serious functionality.
Also this disparity will grow. At level ten you will have 29 con and 152 Hp. Your average fighter will have: 104, maybe 114 if it took toughness at some point (and fighters have lots of feats so maybe).
Try a Dual-Cursed Gnome Lunar Oracle (blackened and haunted curses) for ultimate survivability. (Gnome favored class gets you blasting spells faster)
Level 3: + Cha to AC and Reflex saves means you can dump Dex; your starting array should be 10/10/16/10/10/16, with modifiers 8/10/18/10/10/18. Wear +1 breastplate armor, and a +1 heavy shield. Get Toughness, Prophetic Armor, and Primal Companion. Your HP total is 33, Your AC is 25, and your saves are +7/+5/+3. You have a high-durability tiger companion that can take hits for you. At level 5, you take Divine Protection, for an extra +4 to all saves. Now you are unkillable.
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Dwarf Cleric
You'll have a decent CON, and high saves generally: especially if you take Steel Soul (feat) and Glory of Old (trait). You can burn a feat on Heavy armour proficiency, or choose an archetype such as Crusader to get it if you prefer. Since your GM is flexible about domain choices you can combine Fire for blasting with Trickery for defensive abilities. If it is allowed, also take the Defensive Strategist trait (it's a religion trait in Inner Sea Gods, allowing followers of Torag to gain what amounts to Uncanny Dodge).
Also consider the Luck and Protection domains.
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healingish= Oradin! Human Lore Oracle with Fey Foundling and Scion of War (Init) Feats. Reactionary Trait. Get extra Revelation choose all the Chr based stuff. Then go Paladin. You will have insane saves. Good HP and be able to Lay on Hands yourself or cast Cure Light Wounds and keep yourself and others in the fight. Focus on CHR, CON and STR. SUPER SURVIVABLE!
Damager = Human Alchemist (RageChemist/Vivesectionist) for two levels, take the Extra arm, then all barbarian (armored hulk, or Inv Rager are best bets). Focus on STR, then CON. At level 3 you can have your Str mutagen and RAGE going and have an insane Str. Use a 2-handed weapon (lucern hammer for reach) and have that extra arm using a shield (tower). Using a Feral Mutagen and Fiend(??) totem with get you 2 claws and a Gore attack for up close melee. its bonkers! Dont forget power attack. mutagen and rage will give you +8 Str. a Ragechemist Mutagen will give you an extra +2 str. So if you had 20 str to begin, you'd have a 30 str! with a two-handed weapon that will obliterate things! AC should be pretty good too. Full Plate +shield + Natural Armor.
There could be a way to switch into 2-handed fighter for 3 levels to get x2 str to attacks, but probably not worth leaving the rounds of rage behind. this is a pretty gross build, Ive seen it ruin PFS scenarios, as this character walks thru every combat.
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Thanks for all the replies! I went with a Dwarf Druid in the end (Gregory Connolly, you win a coconut, people who suggested Dwarves you get a complimentary celebrations size Bounty :P )
I've got my fourth session on Monday, so I'll let you know how it goes when I start the 'I need a fifth character in four sessions' thread :D
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With a 20 point build I like to have a 14 dex, 14 con, 14 wisdon and 14 intelligence. Then if human add 2 points to intelligence for a spell caster. This is not a power build but gives you options for future character development and good saving throws and hit points. For Feats take toughness and improved initiative. What killed you by the way? HP damage or saving throws. Stay behind the Paladin and Ranger and choose ranged spells until you get higher level. Get Mage armor and shield or protection from evil if you going to get into HTH. A toad is great familiar for HP's. Starting HP with this build would be 6 +2 +3 +3 = 14 with a d6 + 3HP per level or advancement. Take alchemist fire and tanglefoot bags for extra fire power. Also buy anti toxin and anti plague and a cure serious potion. buy an invisibily potion and fly potion for emergencies. I also like a feather token whip and handy havorsack.
Keep in mind he's dying at low level. At low level, its VERY easy to die.
He just needs more insulation.
==Aelryinth