Lord of Runes and advancing the timeline (Spoilers)


Tales

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

Nominally speaking, the Pathfinder timeline advances in real time (it was 4707 when it started publishing, it is 4715 now). But Paizo has stated that they don't want to canonize exactly when or in what order adventures happen, especially for ones that could significantly change the campaign setting.

For instance, the Guide to the Worldwound notes the fall of the Tower of Yath, which occurred in The Worldwound Gambit. But that tidbit doesn't change any adventures - it's just an easter egg to notice if you've read the book. Likewise, Stalking the Beast and Reign of Stars make reference to other Pathfinder Tales stories. But it doesn't affect their plots - they aren't sequels. Well, both of those actually are sequels. What I mean is they aren't sequels to the other works they reference.

And progressing the timeline via fiction is less damaging than via adventures. It's still an extra book to read, but at least a story has exactly one outcome. An adventure, or adventure path, can have wildly varying outcomes.

Which brings me to my point. I've been reading Lord of Runes. I haven't finished it yet, so this might not be a complete set of examples.

It occurs in Korvosa, mentioning the Blood Veil plague and Gray Maidens.

It has references to Thassilonian lore that imply the the Shattered Star AP and/or Rise of the Runelords AP have been completed. (More likely the former than latter, since the looting of Xin Shalast isn't mentioned.)

And I've just reached the part when Eando Kline shows up, which I think implies the Serpent's Skull AP occurred.

But the big one, because it actually changes the world, is it refers to the Mendevian Crusades as being over, which I have to assume relates to the conclusion of the Wrath of the Righteous AP. (I suppose this had to be addressed somewhat, since Kings of Chaos ties in to the destruction of Kenabres at the beginning of that AP.)

Is this just a consequence of being the fifth book in the Radovan and the Count books, where their own self-contained history needs to be able to move forward?

Do the Radovan and the Count stories get broader license to do this kind of thing as the 'flagship' of the Tales line? Or just Lord of Runes, as the first of the Tor books going to a wider audience?

Is this a change in approach to the fiction in general?

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

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Silver Crusade

I liked the book, but I have no comments on playing with the timeline. ;)


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Ross Byers wrote:
And progressing the timeline via fiction is less damaging than via adventures. It's still an extra book to read, but at least a story has exactly one outcome. An adventure, or adventure path, can have wildly varying outcomes.

I kind of have to disagree here...at least most of the complaints about advancing the timeline in the FR was that it was done through novels and not adventures. The problem with novels is that it removes the agency of the GM and players from the campaign setting because some other characters beat the big bad. In the FR they did this constantly such as the retaking of Myth Drannor.

Personally I think the best way to view the novels is as it own alternate Golarion...as each persons home game is...as well as the PFS games. That way it does not seem like Pazio is taking sides and give their fans a sense of disenfranchisement.

That is at least my thoughts on this.

Executive Editor

Ross Byers wrote:

Nominally speaking, the Pathfinder timeline advances in real time (it was 4707 when it started publishing, it is 4715 now). But Paizo has stated that they don't want to canonize exactly when or in what order adventures happen, especially for ones that could significantly change the campaign setting.

For instance, the Guide to the Worldwound notes the fall of the Tower of Yath, which occurred in The Worldwound Gambit. But that tidbit doesn't change any adventures - it's just an easter egg to notice if you've read the book. Likewise, Stalking the Beast and Reign of Stars make reference to other Pathfinder Tales stories. But it doesn't affect their plots - they aren't sequels. Well, both of those actually are sequels. What I mean is they aren't sequels to the other works they reference.

And progressing the timeline via fiction is less damaging than via adventures. It's still an extra book to read, but at least a story has exactly one outcome. An adventure, or adventure path, can have wildly varying outcomes.

Which brings me to my point. I've been reading Lord of Runes. I haven't finished it yet, so this might not be a complete set of examples.

It occurs in Korvosa, mentioning the Blood Veil plague and Gray Maidens.

It has references to Thassilonian lore that imply the the Shattered Star AP and/or Rise of the Runelords AP have been completed. (More likely the former than latter, since the looting of Xin Shalast isn't mentioned.)

And I've just reached the part when Eando Kline shows up, which I think implies the Serpent's Skull AP occurred.

But the big one, because it actually changes the world, is it refers to the Mendevian Crusades as being over, which I have to assume relates to the conclusion of the Wrath of the Righteous AP. (I suppose this had to be addressed somewhat, since Kings of Chaos ties in to the destruction of Kenabres at the beginning of that AP.)

Is this just a consequence of being the fifth book in the Radovan and...

The general policy of not advancing the timeline continues to stand, but just as we make the occasional exception for adventures (like Shattered Star being a sort of sequel to Rise of the Runelords), we also make occasional exceptions for the novels.

For Radovan and Jeggare, we wanted to have King of Chaos be tied to Wrath of the Righteous, but of course that means that Lord of Runes then takes place after that AP (or at least after R&J's involvement in it). And to use a Gray Maiden, we needed to make a decision about Curse of the Crimson Throne, and so on.

Basically, in order to let Lord of Runes—the first Tor novel—play with a lot of established toys, we relaxed some guidelines. But on the whole, we still want our novels and APs to work no matter what order you read or play them in, so we're deliberately avoiding locking things down into a timeline whenever possible.

Hope that answers the question!

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

It does. Thanks, James.

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