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If I take a Wildblooded Sorcerer's bloodline, am I considered, for purposes of meeting requirements and avoiding restrictions to be of the "Associated bloodline"?
I have a player who is a Sorcerer with the Sage Bloodline.
He has shown interest in taking Eldritch Heritage to gain the "Arcane Bond" 1st level power of the "Arcana" Bloodline.
My issue with it is the wording: "This bloodline cannot be a bloodline you already have."
The question is, thus, so: Is he considered to have the "Arcana" Bloodline, and thus can't take the feat as he wishes, or is he considered to have the "Sage" Bloodline, thus he can take Eldritch Heritage[Arcana] and gain an Arcane Bond at level-2?
Edited in:
Would a Sorcerer with the "Linnorm" Wildbloodline qualify to become a Dragon Disciple?
The wording is "If the character has sorcerer levels, he must have the draconic bloodline."
On it's surface it would make sense to allow it. After all Linnorm Sorcerers *are* descended from dragons. If so, this implies the answer to my question is "yes", thus negating the ability to use E.H. to gain Arcane Bond as a Sage.
He is.
His wild blood just changes how his Bloodline manifests.
Secret Wizard wrote: He is.
His wild blood just changes how his Bloodline manifests.
So He can't take E.H.[Arcana] to obtain Arcane Bond. I thought so.
You can still allow it though.
It could ensue weirdness if he keeps going down that featline.
Does this then allow a Linnorm Wildblooded sorcerer to take Dragon Disciple?
Yes it does. That's just usually overlooked because the synergy is much weaker. No claws means no bite off Disciple, which is immediately a weak trade for a crappy ray. Further, the 3rd-level power's natural armor bonus overlaps with its arcana's natural armor bonus, which makes the arcana much less useful.
its best to think of it as an archeytpe of a bloodline rather than a class maybe?
Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Torbyne wrote: its best to think of it as an archeytpe of a bloodline rather than a class maybe? It's best to think of it as a set of fiddly rules, which interact differently with each bloodline, and not make any general assumptions.
Imbicatus wrote: Does this then allow a Linnorm Wildblooded sorcerer to take Dragon Disciple? Not if you're playing PFS.
LazarX wrote: Torbyne wrote: its best to think of it as an archeytpe of a bloodline rather than a class maybe? It's best to think of it as a set of fiddly rules, which interact differently with each bloodline, and not make any general assumptions. It is certainly not an assumption to say that a Sage Sorcerer possesses the Arcane bloodline, or a Linnorm Sorcerer the Draconic. That is a rule. "When creating a wildblooded sorcerer, select an existing bloodline, then select one of the following mutated bloodlines associated with that bloodline".
I'm also not sure how you're figuring things interact differently for each bloodline. The only real oddball is Sylvan, and most of the cases where its oddities can come into play (Crossblooded, Eldritch Heritage, VMC) are already houserules to apply to a Wildblooded line.
I think it's best to rule that a Linnorm Sorcrer can't become a DD, because they have class features that do not work if they do.
As mentioned, the bite only happens if they use claws, and Linnorm trades out claws.
Jeff Merola wrote: Imbicatus wrote: Does this then allow a Linnorm Wildblooded sorcerer to take Dragon Disciple? Not if you're playing PFS. OK
According to this logic (the one in the link) Linnorm != Draconic, therefore Sage != Arcane.
If you say Sage=Arcane for E.H. but Linnorm != Draconic for DD, than this is a messed up system with absolutely no coherence.
BUT, if PFS rules Linnorm!=Draconic, than I think I shall flow with that into Sage!=Arcane and allow him to go for E.H.
Now the problem is that the Sage bloodline has the exact same powers as in Arcane for purposes of Imp.E.H. and Gre.E.H.
Should be interesting to think of how to resolve this.
So far I think In "metamagic adept" I will simply allow him to gain extra uses per day. "New Arcana" is easy enough, and in "School Power" he will simply hae to choose another school.
What think you guys?
Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
kestral287 wrote: LazarX wrote: Torbyne wrote: its best to think of it as an archeytpe of a bloodline rather than a class maybe? It's best to think of it as a set of fiddly rules, which interact differently with each bloodline, and not make any general assumptions. It is certainly not an assumption to say that a Sage Sorcerer possesses the Arcane bloodline, or a Linnorm Sorcerer the Draconic. That is a rule. "When creating a wildblooded sorcerer, select an existing bloodline, then select one of the following mutated bloodlines associated with that bloodline".
I'm also not sure how you're figuring things interact differently for each bloodline. The only real oddball is Sylvan, and most of the cases where its oddities can come into play (Crossblooded, Eldritch Heritage, VMC) are already houserules to apply to a Wildblooded line. The passage you're quoting speaks for itself, note the part I bolded above, a wildbloodled bloodline is not the original bloodline, but a separate bloodline associated with it.
Right, but they still select the original bloodline, and then the archetype changes what they get from it.
Well, considering that Wildblooded is an archetype, yeah, they have the original bloodline.
If your Sage Bloodline sorcerer just wants a familiar (not a bonded object) you could just use the Bloodline Familiar rules from Familiar Folio and trade out the first level Sage bloodline power for the arcane familiar.
Wildblooded bloodlines are archetypes, not independent bloodlines which means that they should count as the original bloodlines in the same way that a Zen Archer is still a monk.
However it might be incompatible with other options due to alterations in powers, like how Linnorm doesn't work well with the Draconic Disciple, or how Sylvan replaces your 1st level power so you have nothing to trade for a bloodline familiar.
Mike Brock's ruling for PFS is not unreasonable, but outside PFS, it's only weak support for that interpretation (like all dev posts). It's also notable that he made that comment before the FAQs linked above which clarified the nature of wildblooded.
cavernshark wrote: If your Sage Bloodline sorcerer just wants a familiar (not a bonded object) you could just use the Bloodline Familiar rules from Familiar Folio and trade out the first level Sage bloodline power for the arcane familiar. Probably the best solution for your game, assuming the player wants a familiar instead of a bonded item. Bloodline familiars AFAIK aren't archetypes so it shouldn't matter that he's modified his bloodline (or even first level bloodline power, as long as he still has one) though I'm not certain. Note he also gets his bloodline spells a little late that way.
I certainly think so.
You have to pick Arcane before you can choose Sage. You have to pick Draconic before you can choose Linnorm.
PFS rules are only for PFS.
Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Samasboy1 wrote: I certainly think so.
You have to pick Arcane before you can choose Sage. You have to pick Draconic before you can choose Linnorm.
PFS rules only only for PFS.
AS It SHOULD be. Every rules is optional as far as GMs are concerned, which is again, as it should be.
I'd go with they being different, but you can't also take the base Bloodline.
So for that character, Arcane Bloodline doesn't exist. It is called Sage.
Yes, you do have the original SORCEROR bloodline (arcane) which you selected as your sorceror bloodline just like any other sorceror PC does.
The archetype alters class abilities, which happen to derive from your sorceror bloodline, but it doesn't remove the fact of your sorceror bloodline, anymore than tattooed sorceror archetype does, which also replaces bloodline powers. The archetype does grant you a "mutant bloodline" which notably is designated distinctly from "Sorceror bloodlines". Paizo COULD have said "we are publishing a new sorceror bloodline, sage, here is its unique powers and you can use these starts from arcane" but they didn't.
Afaik, the cloak of bloodline heritage or whatever only works on wild blooded powers because it refers too bloodline powers without specifying sorceror bloodline.
cavernshark wrote: If your Sage Bloodline sorcerer just wants a familiar (not a bonded object) you could just use the Bloodline Familiar rules from Familiar Folio and trade out the first level Sage bloodline power for the arcane familiar. Sadly, I don't own Familiar Folio
OK
Michael Brock wrote:
Wildblooded (Linnorm) on the other hand, is a different question, and the bloodline is now not draconic, but linnorm. Even though it uses the Draconic bloodline as a chassis. I would rule no on this one.
*Emphasis added by me.
Since Michael Brock is Global Organized Play Coordinator of PFS and is qualified to make a ruling in their behalf, I should go with his ruling:
The Wildblooded bloodline isn't the original.
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Worth noting that he can make rulings for PFS, [I]not[I] for Pathfinder in general.
Ultimately that's a very big and very shiny houserule.
JXonoX wrote: Sadly, I don't own Familiar Folio Well, I assumed this isn't PFS. If you're comfortable using rules in a book you don't own, they are all listed out on the Familiar page of PSFRD (bottom of the page):
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/wizard/familiar
The Bloodline familiar option is pretty flexible (e.g. "GMs may use the following bloodline familiar abilities as written, or employ them as guidelines for devising bloodline familiar abilities for bloodlines not listed below."); it's not an archetype so it stacks with Wildblooded. All it does is lets a player trade out the first level bloodline power for a familiar with a boost based on the bloodline.
The default Arcane Familiar is listed as having the following bonus power.
Spell Catalyst (Su)
Spells you cast that target your familiar are treated as having a caster level 2 levels higher than your actual caster level.
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